British Dressage rant

[0]

Ok, so my mare has just gone on loan to a 13 year old girl who has competed in dressage but only RC and unaff on a small pony - so basically she is quite a novice, the plan is to downgrade my mare so the girl can get experience at lower levels but move back up the levels pretty quickly due to my horses experience.
BD have said that because the girl has never competed with BD before they will downgrade my horse to Novice Open (she will be left with 40 points).

Then, the other day i found out that someone who is an adult but has never competed BD and is pretty novice (so therefore on paper the same as the girl who has my horse) has bought a horse in holland that was competing there at a higher level than mine has competed here and brought it over. When you import a horse they downgrade it by assesment rather than a set number of points to take off, when this person went to her assesment the judges said that although the horse is very talented, she was obviously novice (same as my horse and her new rider) so you can start with no points and enter prelims??? Although I think th girl who has my horse is a better rider than the other (she is an adult and still novicey rather than just young and inexperienced) at this point in time they are similar so i asked BD if my horse can be assessed - there response was 'no, only imported horses can be assessed' To me this is just ridiculous.

The imported horse can do the prelim nationals and everything.


I have e-mailed BD saying:

I would be gratefull if you could please explain to me how a horse which is competing abroad at a higher level than my horse has ever competed can come over here and be entered into Prelim classes and have 0(!) points just because it has a new rider yet my horse has to compete Novice open (the most competitive class) with a 13 year old rider who is more novice than the one riding the more experienced horse in the lower class?

I'm so angry...................any of you wanting to buy a schoolmisstress/master for downgrading be sure to import it because if you ride like a numpty in your assessment you can do prelims on an advanced horse (which is what the one is question was competing).


Am I just getting wound up or is this ridiculous - need unbiased opinions!!!

 

[airedale]

Yet another nail in the coffin of british breeding. Why buy a quality british product when you can buy an imported over-produced-too-young and go pot hunting at prelim.

Stupid idiots, stupid rule and biased in favour of the continental breeder.......

why don't they just take the word 'British' out of their title and be done with it - after all most non-imported-normal-horses are given a hard time by our 'British' judges as they don't have the flashy Anky von Grunsven paces.

BD - gave up on them 2 years ago

 

[0]

Yes, I am very annoyed........
The funny thing is I have been told that my horse can't do Prelim or restricted classes anyway because of the rule about if the horse has been in the top ten at nationals then it can't do that level again - my horse has (although i still think a bit harsh if they move to a novice rider but oh well) But the point is the immported horse can win championships in Holland at advanced level but because it wasn't registered here when it won it doesn't count and can therefore enter prelims and have 0 points................zero points for an advanced horse

 

[mrdarcy]

That's interesting...

I thought imported horses were given points that depended on their age when imported. I've never heard of these assessment days before.

BD is such an archaic organisation. It really does need a shake up. The whole judging process has moved so far away from what dressage is about - though the FEI are leading the way in encouraging big moving horses at the expense of correctness. The fact that BD seem to encourage (or certainly don't discourage) the use of rolkur (or LDR whatever you want to call it) and other harsh schooling methods, which are all in complete opposition to everything dressage is supposed to be about makes me despair sometimes.

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
That's interesting...

I thought imported horses were given points that depended on their age when imported. I've never heard of these assessment days before.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are given points on their age unless you say you would prefer to be graded on an assessment day because you don't think the age related points are a fair reflection.
Not sure how old the horse in question is but going off the level it was competing I would guess it would have been in for 250+ points (just a guess as i don't have rule book in front of me).

Thats why i can't understand them not saying that for downgrading UK horses, x number of poits points will be taken off unless you don't think that is fair and then you can be assessed to have even more.

 

[mrdarcy]

Thanks for that... interesting to note as my horse is imported, hasn't competed at all in his home country but as a six soon to be seven year old he will be hammered with points when I register him. If they see me on an assessment day we're likly to be awarded minus points!

But in the situation you're describing it does seem very unfair. There's a lot of it about though. I know someone who's competing a horse that was at advanced level in Holland in novice unaffiliated classes here and cleaning up everything in her path.

 

[igglepiggle]

Sounds ridiculous. Look forward to hearing what BD say...mind you, they are probably still undergoing maintenance, like their website has been for....ever?

 

[mrdarcy]

I know what you mean. What is so difficult about getting their website sorted? For such a large organisation they really are the pits.

 

[0]

I think it has been having maintanence done for about a year now.........don't know about you guys but i'm expecting one hell of a site when it's done!!

 

[Peaches]

Having attended an assessment I think it is too easily abused - at the one I saw the assessor asked the (well known) rider 'how many points do you want it to have?' Rider replied with a number well under what horse was capable of & hey presto that's what it got........

 

[RachelB]

I agree with airedale. What a stupid rule, you're right to be annoyed! I would be!

 

[0]

Who was the assessor?? and the rider?
PM if you prefer.

After my correspondance with BD so far I feel like hitting my head on a brick wall.

There is so much red tape surrounding their rules and they use this as justification that they cannot be changed.

Not just regarding issue, but in general, they really need to modernise and get with it.
The whole way it is run seems very inefficient.

ETA: I agree it is too easily abused - at the assessmet of the above horse the rider was told to "not ride her best".........and it worked for her.

 

[Taboo1968]

I agree about the website! Its been under maintenance for far too long now!!! And unlike other organisations like BE who are in the SAME BUILDING and seem to have things running smoothly, you cannot register online with BD!!!

So come on BD, why not pop in to the BE office and ask how its done as they seem to have everything in hand???

 

[Tempi]

Hi hun, sorry to hear about all this, i know how you feel

As i told you my mare is out on share to a 14 year old girl. This girl has competed in 1 BD event on her old pony and gained 60.12%, which means that when she goes to the downgrading with my horse the minimum they will downgrade Bloss to is 60points because her new sharer has '1' point at novice level. its absolutly rediculous and totally unfair, the girl has not once got above 59% on my horse HC in a novice class yet they wont downgrade her to the 40points. My horse is a difficult ride for a youngster...................

ETS - my new horse was imported from Holland luckily as a 4year old and ws registestered with BD straight away which meant he didnt get points slapped on him. He has however only been out and competed BD once with his old owner and that was HC. I will be taking him out and competing him Prelim for the first few times as i do want to qualify him for the regionals next year, however i shall also be competing him novice and perhaps even elementary at the same time.

 

[Sparklet]

Someone at my yard has bought herself a 9 year old Andalucian trecking horse which struggles to work in a circle and will only canter on its favorite leg (because trecking it cantered only on one leg).

This type deserves 0 point but its a farce if an Advance horse is graded the same at assessment. Surely if the rider is useless then the assessor should sit on it and try it to determine its schooling.

 

[not_with_it]

If you can prove that your horse was imported at a younger age then he will have less points. Is your horse branded? If not then there is no reason why you couldnt say he was bred in England and have no points. I know of a few people who have done this.

I agree with everyone who says that BD needs to get their act together. They are so badly run it is unreal. The results section is appauling, They just seem to put on whatever they like. If you look at the results for some of the comps they have people missing, whats the point in having a results section if it isnt updated. At one point I even emailed them but got no reply.

The BD website works for me

 

[piaffe]

interesting post and it has got me worried now.

i have yet to register V with BD as we are not ready to go out yet.

he is imported and was 5 when i bought him in june and i broke him in. how many points is he likely to have on him?

what are these assessments about then? cant find any info on the website.

 

[0]

No need for you to worry........they are given points from the age they were imported as long as you have the documentation to prove when this was. As this was when your horse was 5, I think he will start from scratch! But definately no need to rush because it is all done on the age of import.

If 5 year old's get some points (maybe 10 or 20) then you would just request an assessment, you have it locally and they will decide whether to let you have less points.......in your case they would because you would just tell them that the reason you haven't registered/competed yet is because he wasn't ready and if you've done any unaff comps then take the sheets to show them.
If you do want assessment be prepared for a total bill of about £150.

Don't think 5 year olds get any points though!!!

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
cant find any info on the website.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does that not suprise me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[piaffe]

really? cool, thats a relief. i hope to register in the next week or so and hope to take him out for his first novice in dec time. fingers crossed. bloody work and children get in the way though.

 

[0]

well, despite BD e-mailing me back by 10 o'clock everyday so far, this morning I have heard nothing as yet. Hope they are giving it some thought!!!!

 

[piaffe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
cant find any info on the website.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does that not suprise me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

their website is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

[0]

Do work not realise that you have a horse to compete!!

If you look in your rule book (I don't have mine with me to tell you) there is a table which will tell you exactly how many points a horse imported at 5 will get. If it's zero then it's ok but if he will get some and you don't want them and you want to compete in Dec then I would contact BD asap because I think the assessment and removal of points can take some time!!!

 

[piaffe]

cool better go sort it asap then!

 

[0]

It's a pain that one point at Novice is making her group 7.
I suppose that the girl who has my horse is luck she hasn't done any BD and therefore as a group 8 rider she can get my horse down to 40 points.
I just can't believe the difference between downgrading UK competing horses and foreign competing horses!!

As it is all done on the rider group and is nothing to do with the horse ie. A group rider downgrading any horse will get it downgraded to 40 points whether it started with 60 or 260. I can't believe that two similar riders get such different results!!!!!!!!

 

[piaffe]

ok, according to the rule book, my boy will have 35 points slapped on him. not sure what this means though as am ao out of touch when it comes to bd, its been 9 years since i last competed.

 

[Rambo]

The chance to downgrade at all would be nice......not a concept the BSJA has taken to though unfortunately

 

[burtie]

I think 37 is the limit for Prelim and 75 for Novice, so this would mean you could still do Prelim as long as you don't get any more Novice points. If you plan to start at Novice anyway you may be fine, you will just be out of Novice a bit sooner if you do start winning lots of points.

 

[piaffe]

ahhh, i see, thats fine then. wont be long before we can go out at elem anyway so thats ok.

thanks

 

[Alibear]

I believe that for what ever reason behind the downgrade (eg import or new rider) yuo can either take the "book" value 40 point in your case.

Or you can request for an assesment, there a various trainers in each area qualified to do these assessments who asses the horse and rider together and recommend the level/points the pair should have.

However flip it round if you were complete novice new to dressage with a horse new to it to (eg your average pair) would you feel it fair that you would be competing against a horse that had been many levels higher and placed at the nationals with a novice rider? Not exactly the same playin field is it.

And yes I took the book value and went in at Novice Open with my school master.