British Showjumping Coaches vs British Eventing Accredited Trainers.

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KatB

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Just a thought...

I have always been more bias towards eventing, and so have had lessons with a lot of eventing trainers who are BE accredited.

I have more recently been focussing on SJing and so have been having lessons with BSJA level 2 coaches.

Now, with the eventing people, a lot of them have had very different styles (as you'd expect) but some are excellent with good lesson structures and a real sense of working towards acheiving something at the end, and some have very little structure, and seem to have problems communicating what they want.

The Sjing people I have had have all been very structured with their lesson plans, and really summarise at the end of the lesson, as well as throughout the session. They have had excellent communication skills.

Now as part of my job, I train and coach a lot, and have had training in coaching and training session structures and soft skills required, and I recognise a lot of these skills in lessons I have had with the SJers, but tbh, very rarely see the same evidence of "trained skills" in eventing trainers...

So, thoughts?! Do you think the eventing accreditation could be tightened up? Does anyone know what is involved in the BE accreditaion? I know Sjers have to produce a portfolio to get a coaching certificate...
 
The rules for BE are you need to have got 2 horses to 3*. That is all and you can apply to be an accredited coach. One BE coach in the SW is not that great yet is now attached to a bigger scheme despite really not having the results etc.

I had a job interview for the BSJA and one of the things I mentioned was the real lack of BS coaches particularly in the SW. They are a really good advert for BSJA and this would encourage more PC particpation as trainers who you like do point you in a direction. I think its very interesting that they clearly do have to work hard on their skills. Do you know if they are all UK coaching accredited as well as a huge part of that is about communication?
 
I think its more about individuals tbh. I had a horse in training with a BS accredited trainer for over a year and there was no structure, training plan, goals nothing tbh and not once did I get a phonecall in all that time to say what progress my horse had made if any, feedback good and bad would have been nice. It was always down to me to ring if I wanted any contact at all.

I'm not horsey particularly and just assumed it was because horse people are light years away from the skills / customer service levels of other industries.

Now I know it was this person rather than in general I'd be more demanding next time.

I wonder if its the younger trainers coming through who are becoming more aware of managing and meeting horse and client expectations and are structuring their approach a lot finer.
 
i've had lots of lessons with BE coaches but they tend to have been one offs so its hard to comment on whether they have a 'plan' if that makes sense as have often been clinics etc. My SJ trainer, however, is BS accred and she is brilliant- she's had to do all the portfolio stuff and i would say her lessons definitely always have a plan and purpose- no lesson is ever the same as another either- so often we'll start with polework or gridwork to achieve something (a particular bend or more engagement or whatever you have a prob with) and will then build into jumping fences and courses- so at the minute i'm working on turnbacks and jumping on banana lines between two fences :)
BE sessions have always seemed (esp SJ) a bit more- jump the course, put it up, ok now jump it bigger. XC lessons have been a bit better and sometimes foucs on lines and angles and things- but i would say thats the exception rather than the rule- is often just a case of telling me what fences to jump, seeing what happens and then giving some feedback...
 
With reference to my post on feedback about BE coaches, clearly there is a different approach to coaching between BS and BE - it would be very interesting to know precisely what the different processes are for becoming a coach and for ongoing evaluation and "CPD", if there is such a thing when it comes to training horses.
 
LEC said:
The rules for BE are you need to have got 2 horses to 3*. That is all and you can apply to be an accredited coach. One BE coach in the SW is not that great yet is now attached to a bigger scheme despite really not having the results etc.

I had a job interview for the BSJA and one of the things I mentioned was the real lack of BS coaches particularly in the SW. They are a really good advert for BSJA and this would encourage more PC particpation as trainers who you like do point you in a direction. I think its very interesting that they clearly do have to work hard on their skills. Do you know if they are all UK coaching accredited as well as a huge part of that is about communication?
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LEC, that is very interesting... it does show with the eventers... the really good event trainers I have had are very passionate about teaching anyway.. I think there are a few about who have just been puched in that direction because of the level they are at, and that really shows! I am not sure re. the UK coaching side of things... I will ask next time I see my SJing "trainer" ;)

LHS, yes it is a very individual thing. However, a workman given all the tools can choose whether to use them or not, one who is never given the tools will make do... ;)
 
A lot of the BS trainers I have met all have their UK coaching accreditation. They do not want to do BHSAI so the coaching accreditation works better for them. The skills you learn are the same for all sports basically with planning, development, communication, etc its very structured and geared towards you being a coach not a trainer if that makes sense?
 
LOL yes you are right.

It does make it a lottery though because rather like a kite mark if someone is accredited you assume they display a certain level of professionalism and that may attract you to using them in the first place. Its a shame to have a structured coaches programme with CPD etc etc and still a customer doesn't know what they're getting, although as with anything we can walk away.
 
That's very interesting - is it compulsory for them have a formal coaching qualification (i.e. BHSAI or UK Coaching) in order to be BS approved/registered coaches?
 
I actually do think that BS are slightly ahead of BE with their coaching framework, which was largely designed and initally implemented top down by Lars Sederholm, ironically enough a renowned trainer in BOTH disciplines. The systems have been trickled down from the top with success.

The old BE accreditation system was a bit hit or miss but from January next year the only route to accreditation with BE will be by taking the UKCC Level 3 in eventing. This is an industry standard qualification (ie has equivalents within all sports not just equestrian) and looks a very modern and comprehensive item indeed. I know as I've just got the bumph and a friend and I are thinking we might do it. It's a combination of portfolio/CV development and assessment, and certainly looks like a thorough test to me - the emphasis has moved away from results you have achieved on a horse towards what you do with your pupils. Takes between 6 months and 2 years to complete.

I think currently there are only 6 people who hold this qualification, with a number more in the pipeline, so to speak. I imagine all currently accredited coaches will be encouraged to complete it over a period. It will be interesting to see, but as the UKCC L3 places a good deal of emphasis on structure, planning etc you may see an improvement in this respect. Many trainers are simply riders who are trying to pass on their skills but to date have had little or no help in developing the more rounded aspects of coaching, so I see this move as being extremely positive :)
 
LEC is that the UK CC? I know they have the UK CC level 2, which I think is the same qual TD is saying is now coming to eventing, which is FAB news :) I ws getting confused as I think BS accreditation is based on the UKCC?

TD This:
Many trainers are simply riders who are trying to pass on their skills but to date have had little or no help in developing the more rounded aspects of coaching, so I see this move as being extremely positive
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I agree with completely. Te ones that are interested enough in teaching/coaching will hopefully put the work in to do the quals, which will be a better way of choosing coaches possibly?!
 
KatB said:
LEC is that the UK CC? I know they have the UK CC level 2, which I think is the same qual TD is saying is now coming to eventing, which is FAB news :) I ws getting confused as I think BS accreditation is based on the UKCC?
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No, it's Level 3 that BE are doing. You can do Levels 1 and 2 at a more general level but Level 3 is sport-specific, ie eventing.
 
All my SJ trainers are UKCC accredited, and it has influenced me to go down that route too at the start of next year rather than get the PTT exam "just because I have to" ...I think teaching is certainly for those that have the drive to want to pass on knowledge and what better way to do it by going a route with your particular discipline rather than that damn AI qualification!
 
No, it's Level 3 that BE are doing. You can do Levels 1 and 2 at a more general level but Level 3 is sport-specific, ie eventing.
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UKCC level 3 can also be generic not discipline specific. The difference between UKCC and other teaching/coaching qualifications is that it is an endorsement purely for coaching and does not recognise horse care or riding skills which are covered in the entry requirements for each level. I have done the UKCC level 3 (generic) and found that the emphasis was on the structure of coaching sessions, the psychology of coaching, learning styles etc rather than the subject matter being taught.
 
Sorry I meant the UKCC is the same qual, just different levels :)

EventingMum, that's interesting and how I expect it to be, as you'd hope the people wanting to teach in the sport would know a bit about it, and the UKCC quals are to give them the skills to communicate and teach that knowledge. Obviously the portfolio's and assessments WILL be sport specific, as you'd expect!
 
Sorry, my bad, EventingMum, what I meant to say was that below level three you can't do discipline-specific (or certainly not eventing) you have to do generic equestrian I think.

In order to be accepted to do your eventing level 3 you have to meet certain requirements (it is either BHSAI or BHSII or equivalent, can't remember which), then as Kat says all the portfolio stuff and assessments will be eventing-related :)
 
I think it is as much down to individuals as it is to training.

I had lessons with a BS trainer (who is very highly rated and respected) for several years and agree the lessons were good and well structured. However this didn't transfer to the competition and with hindsight I made very real little progress when riding 'independently'- although we were very good in lessons!!

Just recently I have been going to a BE accredited coach and the difference is amazing! There is a long term plan, I am sent home with things to work on and exercises to help us improve. When out at a competition, things might not go to plan but I know what I am trying to achieve and can identify whats going wrong.

Also the BE trainer is actually interested in what I am doing (or if not at least makes a good show of it!!!). In contrast the BS trainer gave me 100% in lessons but 'out of sight out of mind' and never asked about how we were getting on or indeed showed any interest in our performance - which is really the only point of going to lessons!

But I think that is down to individuals...
 
Hi there,

Just to correct a couple of misconceptions in the above thread: entry on to the BE Accredited Coaches’ List was never just that you had to have competed 2 horses to 3* level – that was simply one of two paths allowing a candidate to go forward for formal assessment in coaching all 3 disciplines of the sport.

It is from the beginning of 2010 not 2011 that entry has been only through the UKCC L3- Eventing qualification (a small number went on in Spring 2010 under the old conditions simply because the weather precluded their scheduled assessment in late 2009).

If you would like to know more about becoming a BE Accredited Coach or taking your UKCC L3-Eveing assessment then contact Carolyn Simm, Training Coordinator on 02476 698821 or carolyn.simm@britisheventing.com

Many thanks!
 
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