Broken 6yo.. WWYD?

[Hormonal Filly]

Some of you have followed all my posts but for those that haven't..
I have a 6yo Irish mare I bought 3 years ago, backed her myself. Long story short.

She has the following

• OCD chip removed from right hock (Feb 2023) last medicated March 2024
• Neck changes at C4-5 but not neurological, medicated June 2024 - ultrasound Oct 2024, showed inflammation
• OCD in right hind stifle, medicated August 2024 - Ultrasound Oct 2024 showed some inflammation
• MRI showed Navicular in both front feet and bone bruising, no treatment recommended, removed shoes and barefoot trimmed 2 weeks ago
• PSD in both front legs and hind right leg
• Small hole in front right suspensory
• SI pain

She has been on box rest for 4 weeks now, vet due out next week to re-scan. She is having weekly Indiba. Vets POA is to start walking her from next week for 4 weeks, then build up work depending on scans/soundness but not turning out at all until Spring. After some research I'm aware there is a high chance of her hooning around and damaging suspensories again.

She is good stabled, happy in herself since completing ulcer treatment but can get unpredictable to handle. I feel bad for her. I'm paying for someone to do her on mornings. Vet is very vague and just says 'worth a try, she is young' when I ask his honest opinion. If she can only hack I plan to loan her and if she isn't happy doing that, I think it will be the inevitable decision.

It just feels like such a long recovery time with a small chance of success Advice, thoughts appreciated.

 

[webble]

Blimey thats a lot for you to digest, I'm so sorry for both you and your horse. Even after recovery assuming its successful and theres no colic and ulcer issues what will her life be like? Will hacking be enough for her or is she the type that needs to be doing? Will she constantly in low level pain?

Honestly if it was me I would pts but obviously it is a very individual decision. What I will say is I have found vets tend to be wary of giving very black and white pts answers

 

[AppyLover1996]

I'm so sorry that you're in this position - it is heart-breaking.

Personally if it were me, I would PTS - it is a lot for any horse to deal with, especially a young one where their first few years of work are crucial - as you've said yourself, there is a risk of her hooning around and re-doing her suspensories, plus with the weather we have in the UK, the wet boggy ground or hard summer ground can cause a myriad of issues in a sound horse with no issues.

Whatever you decide to do make sure you take your time and don't rush into anything - sending you massive hugs....

 

[TheMule]

I'm so sorry for you, she has a lot going on, probably a lot of it is connected. My experience is that these horses don’t do well and you can keep throwing money at diagnostics, interim treatments and box resting, but the accumulation of all the issues means you're fighting a losing battle.
You wouldn’t be wrong to call it a day, though it is tempting to 'just do another month and see' and that wouldn’t be wrong either if she is essentially settled and comfortable.

 

[ihatework]

With all that going on, I’d put her in a field for 12-18 months, shut my eyes providing she is field sound, holding weight and generally happy. (That’s assuming pts is not your preferred route! It’s a valid one ….)

See if her body sorts itself out.
If it doesn’t either leave in field in retirement or pts.

That’s a lot going on, I wouldn’t be spending a lot of money with the vets at this point.

 

[conniegirl]

Tbh, if you can afford to and have the space i’d turn her away and let her nanny some babies (note Nanny them not have them!!).
I’d PTS if you can’t.

I had a 6 yearold with some significant medical issues that meant he couldn’t be ridden and would break down quickly if he was.
I lent him to a friend and he looked after her weanlings for many years until he became uncomfortable in the field as well, then he was PTS.
Shame as he was absolutely stunning

 

[Highmileagecob]

My friend's mare had surgery to repair suspensory damage. She followed the recovery plan to the letter, had follow up scans and medication etc.. Twelve months and a few thousand pounds down the line, the mare is not sound. The vet then disclosed that only around 30% ever come sound, and most have some degree of discomfort. Think you need to ask your vet for a more honest evaluation, given the number they must come across it's not an unusual case.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you all. xx

Will respond to some of the comments

 

[Hormonal Filly]

With all that going on, I’d put her in a field for 12-18 months, shut my eyes providing she is field sound, holding weight and generally happy. (That’s assuming pts is not your preferred route! It’s a valid one ….)

See if her body sorts itself out.
If it doesn’t either leave in field in retirement or pts.

That’s a lot going on, I wouldn’t be spending a lot of money with the vets at this point.

I am struggling to find a field to turn her away in for 12-18 months that is less than £250 a month, I'd be happy to try that but ideally not at that price. Although if I'm totally honest, I don't have the funds to retire a 6yo for 25+ years. If she wasn't right after being turned away I'd PTS. She is a super affectionate, and bonded to me. She hears my car (stabled or turned out) from down the drive and calls. Makes it so much more difficult.

Tbh, if you can afford to and have the space i’d turn her away and let her nanny some babies (note Nanny them not have them!!).
I’d PTS if you can’t.

I had a 6 yearold with some significant medical issues that meant he couldn’t be ridden and would break down quickly if he was.
I lent him to a friend and he looked after her weanlings for many years until he became uncomfortable in the field as well.

I don't think there is the option of that in my area, will make some enquiries and ask around.

Think you need to ask your vet for a more honest evaluation, given the number they must come across it's not an unusual case.

I've already done exactly this, I've rang him after receiving the report and asked him to be brutally honest. He just said he can't say, he is unsure, but she is young. He did say if it was his horse (16yo ex racer) he would PTS. This vet is the second opinion lameness vet, I don't really have the time/energy/funds to get a third opinion involved.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I would absolutely support PTS as a decision- and in all honesty, as someone who can only be a one-horse person due to cost and availability of land in my area, it is the choice I would be making.

Alternatively if you really don't want to consider it, I would also do 12-18 months in a field, but I wouldn't be hopeful of much return to ridden work, however you never really know. Dr Green has done some incredible things.

(ETA: just seen your post, I honestly don't think there are many people that wouldn't support a PTS decision here, she is broken top to tail and not with small niggly problems, but significant ones)

 

[HopOnTrot]

That's such a hard one, I think the issue is because she is young she has years to "recover" but if she has this much going on already then it could get worse, as your vet said, if it was an older horse you would hesitate less with PTS. At 6 I assume the horse hasn't done much that could have caused "wear and tear" to this degree so it implies that the damage is systemic and as such recovery less likely?

Could you do 6/7 months out at grass and assess next spring?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’d absolutely PTS with a list of issues that long, and I’m always one to keep a horse on as a happy pasture ornament if I can.

It is mentally draining keeping a horse on who has multiple issues, I’ve not long been through it for six years with a horse who was retired age 7yo. You’re forever wondering which particular issue is causing whichever behaviour issue now. I did manage to keep mine mostly happy with a lot of vet input, but had I known at the start how it would pan out, I wouldn’t have done it.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

With all that going on, I’d put her in a field for 12-18 months, shut my eyes providing she is field sound, holding weight and generally happy. (That’s assuming pts is not your preferred route! It’s a valid one ….)

See if her body sorts itself out.
If it doesn’t either leave in field in retirement or pts.

That’s a lot going on, I wouldn’t be spending a lot of money with the vets at this point.

I would do this.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

At 6 I assume the horse hasn't done much that could have caused "wear and tear" to this degree so it implies that the damage is systemic and as such recovery less likely?

She hasn’t done much at all, one 70ODE in Spring this year. I just started to increase work this year and she broke down over and over. She has mostly hacked for the last 2 years but has been in and out of work even doing that.

Could you do 6/7 months out at grass and assess next spring?

Yes, although she hasn’t been lame, so it’s been so difficult to find the issues. Even nerve blocks we did several times/several visits. I don’t think I’d know if she was ‘better’ by an assessment without her being bought back into work.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Where are you ?

I know the most gorgeous retirement livery the people are brilliant than run it, you don't ever have to visit they do everything for you but it is £250 a month, it's in Hertfordshire my friend has 2 horses there.

If not maybe put your area on here and someone here may be able to help, I think Auslander on here does retirement livery don't know where she is though.

 

[nutjob]

PSD in 3 legs is very worrying in a 6yo. Maybe it's my paranoia but I had one, an ISH with DSLD/ESPA who was pts at age 6. It's a genetic defect and the horse cannot properly recover whatever treatment is given. Mine wasn't even able to be kept comfortably retired as the hind legs were collapsing.

With all the other things going on here I would PTS I'm afraid. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, I remember all to well how awful it is when the horse is so young.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wouldn’t put a horse with multiple physical issues out at any retirement livery. Keep her right under your own nose or not all.

 

[JenJ]

Where are you ?

I know the most gorgeous retirement livery the people are brilliant than run it, you don't ever have to visit they do everything for you but it is £250 a month, it's in Hertfordshire my friend has 2 horses there.

If not maybe put your area on here and someone here may be able to help, I think Auslander on here does retirement livery don't know where she is though.

Auslander is Berkshire/Hampshire borders I think. Ish.

 

[Birker2020]

FWIW I agree with Tiddlypom, there is too much going on and it will cost you thousands of pounds with a very unlikely good outcome.

Also with the multiple issues, unless you can see the horse and assess it regularly its not worth the stress to you and the possible discomfort to the horse if it doesn't fare so well as you had imagined.
The Mule has also hit the nail on the head - it is temping to 'give it a bit more time' and unless you have a cut off point you could go on forever.

 

[9tails]

If she's field sound, I'd turn out with quiet companions and reassess next year, early autumn. I'd just turn out and bring in every day, now isn't the time to rough off for winter if not already done so. I'd not trot up or try anything other than keeping her quiet and content. Let her feet mend from the questionable farriery and see if her issues fix themselves. If she's still stuffy and unwilling to work, then make that decision.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would PTS , in my experience you are not going to get an improvement in the PSD with turnout I have been in that situation with a young horse .
There’s so much going on and think it’s going to be emotionally draining and financially draining .
I have been there and it went on and on the mental relief I felt after I ended it was enormous .

 

[SEL]

My Appy
Pssm1
Navicular diagnosis right fore
Suspensory damage left hind
Significant hock arthritis bilateral diagnosed at 6 (she'd done very little)
SI pain. Nothing on ultrasound but obviously happy when steroid injected.

Today FB kindly reminded me of the last time I did anything significant. She was 8 & is now 14

I have my own land and it suits me to have 3 so one can be taken out and she's fine as a pet. I really wish the vets had been more honest with me back then with her prognosis, but they were happy for me to keep ploughing money in.

A pet isn't much cheaper to maintain than a riding horse.

I'm not someone who piles in with the PTS but I think you need to set yourself a line in the sand and assess at each stage. If the rehab doesn't look like it's effective and turning away with your fingers crossed isn't an option then don't keep plodding on. It's draining both mentally and financially.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If she's field sound, I'd turn out with quiet companions and reassess next year, early autumn. I'd just turn out and bring in every day, now isn't the time to rough off for winter if not already done so.

She has quiet companions and is still mental in the field around bring in time despite being out with several others. Only way I could turn her away would be moving to a 24/7 turnout/retirement yard. She is extremely fluffy and slightly over weight, a very good doer. I don't think being roughed off for winter now would be a problem but I am just trying to consider if its worth it.

I do feel in my head, I'd feel better if she was turned away. Out of sight out of mind type thing.

 

[dorsetladette]

With all that going on, I’d put her in a field for 12-18 months, shut my eyes providing she is field sound, holding weight and generally happy. (That’s assuming pts is not your preferred route! It’s a valid one ….)

See if her body sorts itself out.
If it doesn’t either leave in field in retirement or pts.

That’s a lot going on, I wouldn’t be spending a lot of money with the vets at this point.

I'd do this too.

She'll do one of 3 things, something which will take the PTS decision out of your hands, sort herself out or stay the same.

It might be considered kicking the can down the road. But it's sort of putting her future in her hands a little.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's not exactly cold at the moment anyway so roughing off won't really be an issue.

 

[dottylottie]

so sorry you’re having to go through this!

i think the kindest thing for both of you would be to PTS, realistically even if she comes sound she’s not going to do the job you want her to do, and if you’re not in a position to have 2 she’s got a very long retirement before you could have another.

really really feel for you, when lily had her stifle issues i said if she didn’t come sound id PTS rather than try to pass off a retired horse to anyone.

 

[Hallo2012]

realistically this horse hasn't stayed sound in any degree of work and even after a year off what will change?

id PTS personally esp as turning her away doesn't sound like an easy option.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

It's not exactly cold at the moment anyway so roughing off won't really be an issue.

That's all very well provided you have the funds and the ability to do so. If you can't do it at current yard because you don't have 24/7 turnout, which is like hens teeth these days, you have to look for a retirement livery. Land around near me is at an absolute premium, and you're not getting retirement livery you'd want your horse to be on for less than £400pm. Then on top of that you'd want to see her very regularly, as with so many issues she could go downhill very quickly or it may be subtle in that someone who's not hawk watching her or who knows her well may notice, so you'd have to find a retirement happy with that and some of them don't want the herd disturbed, plus or minus painkillers in the short term while she adjusts so they'd have to somehow manage them being fed and/or syringed. You'd have to facilitate introducing a horse that may be cranky or not as agile as they usually would be into an established herd. Then you have to bring them back off of this retirement and have either paid for your space for a year +, or find another yard (again, in my area good livery yards with turnout and which are nicely managed are genuinely like gold dust) to then bring her back into work and potentially face the heartbreak of her breaking down again after you've invested even more time and hard work into basically re-backing her. If you can't re-back her you'd have to hope she's not gone feral, or pay for someone to do it who may not know what they're looking out for.

Plus all the risks while she's turned out - injuries, mud fever, rain scald, she doesn't winter well and drops weight or shivers and the yard may or may not want to rug their herd - another one being introduced that unsettles them all, that she may start pacing, fence chewing etc etc.

It's all very well and good pushing for the option that seems the kindest, but sometimes when you consider the real life nuances and considerations - albeit some I have mentioned are more likely than others, it's not that simple as finding retirement livery and chucking her out and hoping for the best.

 

[IrishMilo]

Ah I feel for you, I've just been through this. Do you have the money to retire her or can you only have one horse? If the latter I absolutely would PTS.

One of mine has the same list of issues as your girl, minus the suspensory and SI stuff. I'm usually pretty pragmatic at calling it a day but something just didn't feel right about that with Koby, so we made the decision to turn him away with the view of reevaluating in a year's time to see if he could be a light hack. We took all 4 shoes off and literally just chucked him in the field and haven't touched him apart from to trim his feet. Not going to lie, I got a lot of stick and judgement IRL for it, because he was crippled and utterly miserable for a couple of weeks. I did come close to suggesting we PTS a few times when he couldn't stand on his own 4 feet and I was of the view that if he wouldn't stand up to retiring without meds and remedial shoeing I didn't think it was in his best interest.

Couple of months later and I'm so happy we stuck with it. He's the happiest I've ever seen him and is looking the best as well. He gets nothing but grass and is fat, fluffy and shiny. And sound!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Do you have the money to retire her or can you only have one horse? If the latter I absolutely would PTS.

Realistically in the current climate I can only afford one, unless I found retirement livery for less than £150 but that isn’t going to happen.

Thanks for sharing about your gelding, pleased to hear he is doing well. I just have a doubt in my mind if being turned away will help/solve all her issues. The arthritis will only get worse. I have a feeling I’ll turn away and be in this situation in a years time. I’ve only read one positive story on a year out and PSD.

I am so attached to her. She is like a big dog. I put to sleep my heart horse 4 years ago at the age of 9.. it’s the worst. I do have to think of my mental health, I’m a strong person but this has been making me almost ill for a few weeks.

The vet is back next Tuesday to scan. I’m thinking if no change put to sleep, unless I can find a decent priced retirement livery even if it’s for a few months. Could have a serious conversation with the vet about his thoughts but I get a feeling he won’t be straight about the future.