Broken 6yo.. WWYD?

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you. Will await the scan Tuesday. She’s been unpredictable and fresh to handle this week.

Just heard her half sister is doing exceptionally well, evented this season and now hunting.

Just seems so unfair

 

[Hormonal Filly]

The vet has been back. Bit baffled if I'm honest.

First sentence 'Can we trot her up?'
Me: 'You're joking?'
Vet 'No, don't look at me like that. She'll be fine'
Horse proceeds to canter on the spot, bucking. Then he advises to trot her up the wall in the arena, I said I don't see the point she'll go mental. She then stands rearing vertical, leaping, cantering on the spot. I just managed held onto her and nearly got kicked several times.

Why did he need to see her trot her up?! Anyway. After that near death experience. Sedated her and re scanned.
2 legs show some improvement, proximal suspensory area RH still inflamed/missing fibres and LF suspensory has a area of missing fibres. There is some PSD in LH as well, so this is all 4 of her legs with suspensory issues. He also noticed she's had a previous SDFT injury in her RF. Stifle has no inflammation now (but she has been in for 5 weeks!)

His advice.. 5 more weeks total box rest. Then re scan, possibly continue box rest (sounds like box rest forever!) or start walking.

I asked him the question and what would he honestly do in my situation. He said in the UK we have a issue with box rest, abroad they don't have turnout and are fine. He said he thinks its sensible for me to consider she might only be a happy hack and find her a new home once recovered, but she might also get another issue pop up. That she has lots of small problems, and not a big problem (I'm aware of that) that he can't advise on PTS because there is no set rule. Kept saying she is young. He also said sometimes they're in the box for 12-14 months to recover and it is what it is. He said he could give me some sedation. He said turning her away isn't rehab and basically, not worth it.

I've come away in such a difficult place. She isn't happy and I don't want to do another 5 weeks box rest. For my sanity and hers. Problem is she's so full of life, I find it difficult to PTS horse which looks so healthy (to the eye) but am not sure where to go from here.

I think I need to accept this horses ridden life is over (is it even fair to hack a horse with all these issues, how do you know she isn't in pain?) Do I turn her out for a few weeks at my yard, then put to sleep or do I retire her away at the retirement yard and make the decision next year. Gives me breathing space.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'm sorry, but I think your vet is *unhelpful* at best with almost everything he said (and that's me being diplomatic).

I don't want to sound harsh OP, you're doing your best and I know how heartbreaking this will all feel, but she doesn't sound like she's full of life, she sounds like she's not mentally coping with the extended period of box rest and has significant, degenerative issues in all four legs.

If you could easily afford retirement livery and it could be ensured that she is not in pain, then I would support retirement livery. However from what you have posted (from memory) I believe retirement livery will be a stretch, she has too many issues to know whether she's in pain as bilateral lameness can be incredibly hard to spot. Yes, she is young, but her body is deteriorating already in many places, you may have a different horse after 3 years of leaving her somewhere, but you also are likely to not, there is no rule to say that you have to ruin yourself financially and/or mentally trying to fix a horse that just isn't coping with life.

 

[tda]

I'm sorry, but I think your vet is *unhelpful* at best with almost everything he said (and that's me being diplomatic).

I don't want to sound harsh OP, you're doing your best and I know how heartbreaking this will all feel, but she doesn't sound like she's full of life, she sounds like she's not mentally coping with the extended period of box rest and has significant, degenerative issues in all four legs.

If you could easily afford retirement livery and it could be ensured that she is not in pain, then I would support retirement livery. However from what you have posted (from memory) I believe retirement livery will be a stretch, she has too many issues to know whether she's in pain as bilateral lameness can be incredibly hard to spot. Yes, she is young, but her body is deteriorating already in many places, you may have a different horse after 3 years of leaving her somewhere, but you also are likely to not, there is no rule to say that you have to ruin yourself financially and/or mentally trying to fix a horse that just isn't coping with life.

I have to agree, could the vet not see that you are struggling with the whole situation the only way I personally could continue with this is to turn away and monitor , I don't care what they do in Europe

 

[dorsetladette]

I'm sorry, but I think your vet is *unhelpful* at best with almost everything he said (and that's me being diplomatic).

This was my thought too.

 

[Highmileagecob]

OK, normal life for a horse in the UK is considered to be a broad mix of turn out and stable. At the end of another five weeks of box rest, I would be turning her out if she were mine, and she would have to sink or swim. If she is happy to be a field companion and you can manage any pain that may be present, then she has an option. If she breaks down again at turn out, then unfortunately, the situation would become clearer. If you feel turning her out now would put both of you in a better head space, then do what your gut tells you. There are no guarantees that the rehab will work, and if it is messing with her head, then you need to be safe around her.
It sounds very much like your vet is hopeful that his suggested treatment plan will work, but will revert to 'well, I did warn you that something else might crop up' if she is still lame twelve months from now.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Turn her out and find a new vet.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Turn her out and find a new vet.

The vet isn't great, really don't like his attitude at all but he showed me the scans so I know what he is saying is true with the suspensory damage. I'm not sure what a different vet could do/say.

OK, normal life for a horse in the UK is considered to be a broad mix of turn out and stable. At the end of another five weeks of box rest, I would be turning her out if she were mine, and she would have to sink or swim. If she is happy to be a field companion and you can manage any pain that may be present, then she has an option. If she breaks down again at turn out, then unfortunately, the situation would become clearer. If you feel turning her out now would put both of you in a better head space, then do what your gut tells you. There are no guarantees that the rehab will work, and if it is messing with her head, then you need to be safe around her.
It sounds very much like your vet is hopeful that his suggested treatment plan will work, but will revert to 'well, I did warn you that something else might crop up' if she is still lame twelve months from now.

If I turn her away, I think I'll always be hoping 'what if' about her coming back into work. Which is why I'm pushing more PTS. I know if I turn her away I need to accept her ridden career is over.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

To add, he mentioned taking her blood today to check her muscle enzymes and then re-taking them once she's back in work to look for muscle damage/muscle condition. I told him not to.

If she has a muscle condition as well as all this.. it isn't fair to keep her on retirement livery.

 

[dorsetladette]

Is she insured? Is it time to start looking at a loss of use claim and how that works with the evidence you currently have?

Sorry this isn't meant to sound heartless.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Is she insured? Is it time to start looking at a loss of use claim and how that works with the evidence you currently have?

Sorry this isn't meant to sound heartless.

No, I cancelled her NFU renewal as it was £2k renewal. She didn’t have loss of use, just death, they’d need to agree to her being put to sleep to get the money but only other things like a catastrophic injury.

 

[IrishMilo]

A suspensory problem isn't going to get better with her hooning around in the field everyday. It just isn't. So if you want the suspensories to have the best chance you really do need to box rest or dope her to the point she isn't going to do more than a walk and turn out. Personally I don't think either is an ethical solution. I don't mind doing box rest with horses who are calm in the box but I hate seeing horses stressed and bottled up. Again different if it was one issue and the prognosis is good but there's loads going on here and in my opinion (and please note I'm obviously not a vet, I've just been round the block a few times with this) - the chances of her coming good and staying good are slim.

I'm really sorry you're in this position, your vet sounds like a bit of an unsympathetic jerk!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

The vet isn't great, really don't like his attitude at all but he showed me the scans so I know what he is saying is true with the suspensory damage. I'm not sure what a different vet could do/say.

That's true, but some might be more considerate about animal welfare in respect to box rest and PTS. I'm not doubting that he's not saying what the horse actually has or isn't being truthful in that respect. I appreciate his "optimism" but I'm not sure it's realistic or for the best, in some instances.

If she were mine, I'd PTS. My young horse came up with swollen hindlegs a few months back, and naturally I feared the worst because that's how I am (paranoid about soft tissue). It was viral and he was fine, but it he had any suspensory breakdown or multiple soft tissue things at age 3, it'd be PTS time. If a horse can't hold up to some basic activity, especially at a young age, to me, they're done. That's my personal opinion, and I get that not everyone feels that way.

I personally won't do prolonged box rest in most cases, but sometimes an exception has to be made. While I will keep a "broken" horse in some instances, for the most part, I won't. Being PTS is far from the worst thing that can happen to a horse.

It's fine if you don't agree with that, it's just my perspective. I get that it may sound cold, but my views are shaped by my experiences.

I don't doubt your care and dedication to this horse. She's fortunate to have you. I don't envy your position and wish you both the best no matter which direction you decide to go in.

 

[Squeak]

Another who thinks the vet isn't helpful. Personally I would get another vets opinion, probably from another clinic so that they can't have been biased by the current vet. Realistically it sounds like PTS is the kindest option for her but I know I would always be wondering and struggling with it more if the vet wasn't being supportive so even if you know they wont find or diagnose something new, another vets opinion on long term prognosis and realistic expectations could be worth doing.

Fwiw I had a vet refused to put my elderly struggling dog down and kept her going for another few months until I took her to another vet. The second vet was horrified that she hadn't been pts previously - moral of the story is that vets aren't always right and you know your animals best even with a very difficult decision.

 

[Goldenstar]

There’s no point what so ever in turning away a horse with PSD .
Has he suggested shock wave for the suspensories ?
You can also inject steroid so it creeps over the area to settle acute inflammation although I think you be too far in now for that help .
Then of course there’s surgery ( that’s a neurectomy ) there’s no way I would consider surgery.

 

[Goldenstar]

You can put your own horse to sleep at any point it’s not the vets call you just have to find someone to do it .

 

[Hormonal Filly]

There’s no point what so ever in turning away a horse with PSD .
Has he suggested shock wave for the suspensories ?
You can also inject steroid so it creeps over the area to settle acute inflammation although I think you be too far in now for that help .
Then of course there’s surgery ( that’s a neurectomy ) there’s no way I would consider surgery.

He did suggest shockwave before, as a last resort but hasn't mentioned it since. Don't have to much insurance money left. He mentioned steriod injecting it previously, I told him I didn't want to go down that route as aware it only usually lasts a short period.

The Neurectomy I wouldn't do, to many other problems.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

You can put your own horse to sleep at any point it’s not the vets call you just have to find someone to do it .

Yes I am aware, thank you. I’d have her shot, as had a bad experience with the injection before. I know who I’d ask to do it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Shock wave is usually the first resort and the steroid is settle acute inflammation and thus help healing
It’s increasing likely the conservative approach for dealing with PSD is the best way forward for many cases .
Box rest with no treatment seems to offer very little chance of success to me .
Years ago we had a lovely two year old who got this injury during a storm she had the best part of Year box rest in a Hemmel this is before shock wave and all that was a thing.
Eventually she got out with her friends six hours later she was unlevel I put her to sleep the next morning.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Shock wave is usually the first resort and the steroid is settle acute inflammation and thus help healing
It’s increasing likely the conservative approach for dealing with PSD is the best way forward for many cases .
Box rest with no treatment seems to offer very little chance of success to me .
Years ago we had a lovely two year old who got this injury during a storm she had the best part of Year box rest in a Hemmel this is before shock wave and all that was a thing.
Eventually she got out with her friends six hours later she was unlevel I put her to sleep the next morning.

Sorry to hear that. She has been having Indiba, but not sure how much that will help.

 

[TPO]

Vet unhelpful, and unrealistic vet

Box rest and turn away to what end? Her issues don't heal and will need a lifetime of management.

I'm usually Team Vet but it does sound like this one is dragging things out. Shockeave isn't going to heal the issues that you've listed.

She doesn't sound like she is happy just now.

Horses live in the moment. She doesn't sound happy in this moment, or with continuing box rest. Her pain doesn't go away because she's in a field, possibly making issues worse with high jinks, and she'll still need careful management.

Even if a miracle happens and she somehow is "sound enough" (how do you quantify that?) how donyou find the right having home. I know there are people out there who willingly take on issues but you're average "I want a hacking horse" don't want something they have to monitor like a hawk and be very conscious of ground/going etc.

I am so sorry that you and your horse are in this position. I'm really sorry that the vet hasn't been helpful.

It's very easy to say and hard to do but I would pts sooner rather than later. She's currently in pain with multiple issues and her behaviour is affected. It would be a kindness.

Again, I'm do sorry that you are facing this. Horses are complete heartbreakers xx

 

[maya2008]

Vet pov: she is a young animal who is full of life (as you said) and in terms of her having a reasonable life (not necessarily a ridden one) if you box rest for long enough, then the problems he is seeing on the scans will have time to heal. He’s a vet. His job is to fix them.

I have box rested horses for months when there was a secure chance of good recovery and when it was over, it was worth it. Something like 6 months for one with canker, giving her 12 more years of a full and happy life. Wasn’t fun, and we did lots to make it more bearable for her, but it was worth it.

As the owner you have to make the choice as to whether you think it is worth it to continue - financially and otherwise. You have to weigh up her vet history, get a reasonable assessment of prognosis (what are her chances of coming sound given x and y) and make a decision. I’ve never had a vet tell me to pts - even the older partner who diagnosed neck arthritis causing frequent falls in my old TB didn’t actually say it would be a kindness to put her to sleep. And the young one who had destroyed her foot in a freak accident, the older mare with severe colic and so on. They always offer you treatment options so long as those exist. That’s their job. Many times when I have made that decision they have then said it was the right thing to do, but it always had to be me making that call without their input (beyond answering honestly about chances of recovery).

If you make the decision to pts, you can always call the Equine End of Life service (run through BHS) if you don’t know of a local person/hunt and then you don’t need to justify your decisions to the vet.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I’ve never had a vet tell me to pts - even the older partner who diagnosed neck arthritis causing frequent falls in my old TB didn’t actually say it would be a kindness to put her to sleep. And the young one who had destroyed her foot in a freak accident, the older mare with severe colic and so on. They always offer you treatment options so long as those exist. That’s their job. Many times when I have made that decision they have then said it was the right thing to do, but it always had to be me making that call without their input (beyond answering honestly about chances of recovery).

Thank you for commenting.

I must of been lucky a few years ago when a leading vet at a equine hospital told me I’d done all I could with my gelding, the deformity in his neck would only get worse and be more painful which really helped me make the decision.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I'm so sorry your in this awful position.

I had a 7 yo that was diagnosed with psd in both hinds. He was absolutely beautiful but couldn't be hacked, he was dangerous. I couldn't keep riding in the school as , after rehab, it would just aggrevate the injury. My vet was very practical in his advice which was pts.
I'm really not sure what my next step would be if I were you but I'm hoping you can make a decision and feel at peace with it.

 

[SEL]

There are many, many vets who struggle with PTS decisions. I've always had supportive ones for the horses but had a struggle with my small animal vet and my very poorly cat earlier this year.

**hugs**

 

[Amymay Again]

There are many, many vets who struggle with PTS decisions. I've always had supportive ones for the horses but had a struggle with my small animal vet and my very poorly cat earlier this year.

**hugs**

Completely agree. I'm forever grateful that my vet was an equestrian first and a vet second.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

He did suggest shockwave before, as a last resort but hasn't mentioned it since. Don't have to much insurance money left. He mentioned steriod injecting it previously, I told him I didn't want to go down that route as aware it only usually lasts a short period.

The Neurectomy I wouldn't do, to many other problems.

I was going to say have you been offered treatment for the psd.

Arabi injured his left hind suspensory when he was 12 he had prp for that and 6 months box rest it healed and he was sound until he was 18, vet found some damage to both suspensories not awful and he was hardly lame.

My vet said do shock wave and box rest I had already said I won't box rest him again his body doesn't cope physically now his older.

I opted to do the shock wave but I left him out in the field it was July and his calm out there, I think he had a month of treatment and the scans showed it had worked and he looked better.

I didn't even tell the vet I didn't box rest him it's my horse and I wanted him to have it.

It is expensive though if its something you will have to pay for yourself.

 

[misst]

Sorry but first of all I'd sack the vet. Then I'd make sure the diagnosis was correct (suspensory damage in particuar in 3 legs). Given it has had treatment and not done well and that long term she will almost certainly relapse I would abandon all hope of riding. If she came sound to hack you could not, in all honesty, sell her as a hack without absolute full disclosure. Anyone worth their salt would not buy her. Anyone else is likely to pass her on. She deserves better than that.
I hope if she was mine I would be brave enough to PTS - but I hear your pain. She sounds unhappy and uncomfortable. If you cannot bare to PTS and she can be comfortable for a few months in a field then turn away, but it is winter and she likely won't do well.
Your vet is a coward in my opinion. Giving people false hope is unhelpful and dishonest. You deserve better and so does your mare.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Thank you for commenting.

I must of been lucky a few years ago when a leading vet at a equine hospital told me I’d done all I could with my gelding, the deformity in his neck would only get worse and be more painful which really helped me make the decision.

My big Kaltblut had colic, the vet told me straight that because of the mare's size and age she wouldn't be a good candidate for surgery. I replied that decision was already made, no way would I want to put any horse through colic surgery. Fortunately the drench and buscopan worked.
And although I knew the vet, she was relatively young, definitely not "old school' but I was very grateful for her approach.

 

[Michen]

Maybe I’ve missed it but I don’t think the vet has directly been asked “would it be wrong to PTS this horse” and said no. He’s been asked what he’d do in this situation and given his answer. Yes it may be different from what some of you on here would do.

Op above all I’m really sorry you are in this situation and fully, fully sympathize. Whatever you do will be the right thing. Xx