Broken back hoof/pastern axis in hind feet…

[santas_spotty_pony]

My boy is due to be shod next week but I am slightly concerned that his heels are collapsing in his hind feet/he isn’t being provided with enough heel support. My Farrier said his feet are just changing with age and due to his arthritis but he has had hock arthritis since he was 13 - he is now 25 and it is well managed and he feels fab to ride at the moment too so I am not convinced. IMO his toes look to be very long and particularly the off hind looks like the heel is starting to collapse.

My Farrier moved to Australia in April so this also coincides with a different farrier doing him but my Farrier did recommend him. I am very cautious with losing a horse due to DDFT tears due to poor shoeing

I am going to mention this again to the farrier this week and I have sent photos and a message to my old farrier for his opinion but I appreciate he might not want to get involved. My other options is to ask the Vet, look for a different carrier, although his front feet are looking good and the others seem ok or third option is to have the shoes off behind and let the hooves do what they need to do but I am not sure it is a good idea right now with the hard ground and he is also quite flat footed but has gone barefoot behind in the past. I’m mulling it over at the minute but do you guys see what I am seeing or am I overthinking it?

 

[tda]

100% take the back shoes off and get some miles in and see how the feet react

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

100% take the back shoes off and get some miles in and see how the feet react

hmm I am leaning more and more towards this. Will give them a chance to recover and prevent damage as I am worried he’s going to cause damage staying like this. He is still in work but tbh he did hunt a season when he was younger with just front shoes and only got footsore at the end of the season. He is obviously not in as much work now so maybe taking them off won’t be a bad thing - I guess worst case he can be reshod anyway and his feet will have had time to recover…. I am leaning more and more towards barefoot these days anyway tbh. He has pads in front though so don’t think he would cope full time without front shoes but hinds maybe… sorry to go on just thinking aloud. He is my pride and joy and I’m always trying to do best by him.

 

[sbloom]

He looks like there's a lot of bacteria in those nail holes, or possibly actual white line disease, which won't help so if you take the shoes off definitely treat that. Negative HPA/NPA behind is so important for posture and soundness, have a look at The Equine Documentalist for tons of info on the relationships.

Taking the shoes off is seldom a bad idea, but, if the trim isn't right, and he's already moving in a compromised way, it won't necessarily fix the angles.

Take photos of how he's standing, and keep monitoring that, and then if you can get his cannon bones vertical you can take photos slightly further away that would show it a bit better. Do who half way up the cannon bone if possible. Without x-rays it's hard to know if you actually have NPA but you can see better if the hoof pastern axis is broken back. May need a different practitioner to fix them.

 

[Barton Bounty]

100% take the back shoes off and get some miles in and see how the feet react

Id 100% do this too

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I’d be concerned about the quality of the hoof. Good idea to try without shoes.

 

[SpotsandBays]

I too would take the backs off

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would take them off most horses cope without hind shoes.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Thanks guys I think this is what I will do… Il going to ask him to take the toe back too though as i’ve just looked at old photos and they have changed drastically since last year - my farrier only emigrated in April!

 

[lynz88]

100% what sbloom said. I've managed to correct a lot with taking shoes off and a really good farrier/trimmer but I still most definitely have broken back angles. My horse is quite compromised and thinking they will never be completely correct but the change I have got especially in the last 1.5 years has been incredible.

 

[splashgirl45]

Take back shoes off and keep an eye on what your farrier is doing with the fronts before they go the same way. Might be worth trying keratax or hoof armour to harden his feet quickly

 

[Barton Bounty]

Add biotin, its brilliant for hoof growth and strength.

You can always use hoof boots if you really need too

 

[sbloom]

100% what sbloom said. I've managed to correct a lot with taking shoes off and a really good farrier/trimmer but I still most definitely have broken back angles. My horse is quite compromised and thinking they will never be completely correct but the change I have got especially in the last 1.5 years has been incredible.

I think it's important, to really get the best results, to work on posture at the same time. Work that looks primarily at balance, at the thoracic sling, not the kind of long and low type of approach. Even in 10 minutes a day, have a look at something like Annie Dillon Horsemanship, or peruse equitoiacenter.com for professionals and programmes.

I'm good friends with an absolutely top notch farrier, as well as reading this everywhere, he will say very clearly that the influence between movement and feet and absolutely two way. So not only should we condition for barefoot, it we should be looking to improve their movement too.

Should I make my middle names Broken Record

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Take back shoes off and keep an eye on what your farrier is doing with the fronts before they go the same way. Might be worth trying keratax or hoof armour to harden his feet quickly

His toes are quite long on the fronts too but not that bad. He has pads on his front feet and they seem to be working well. Another thing Ism a bit annoyed about though is I have noticed that he has gone back to steel nails - other farrier used copper ones and he did too to start with - my guess is he is trying to cut corners to save costs. I can’t believe I hadn’t noticed but I shall be mentioning it all on Wednesday. He always asks me if there are have been any problems when he arrives…..

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

I think it's important, to really get the best results, to work on posture at the same time. Work that looks primarily at balance, at the thoracic sling, not the kind of long and low type of approach. Even in 10 minutes a day, have a look at something like Annie Dillon Horsemanship, or peruse equitoiacenter.com for professionals and programmes.

I'm good friends with an absolutely top notch farrier, as well as reading this everywhere, he will say very clearly that the influence between movement and feet and absolutely two way. So not only should we condition for barefoot, it we should be looking to improve their movement too.

Should I make my middle names Broken Record

This farrier won’t come to Lincoln would be?! yes I completely agree, my horse does have hock arthritis which is managed with my Vet so I am limited as to how well I can get him working properly as it isn’t fair to make him to do so at his age and he finds it difficult. There is a chance his feet are changing because of his way of going of course but it’s a bit of a coincidence that they have changed so much in the last three months which is the time it takes them to grow a whole new hoof top to bottom and that’s the same amount of time I have had the new farrier

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Update: so my old farrier replied and asked for some photos of underneath too, which I sent. (I’ll attach these here to) the only comment he made is that they must be growing too fast so I need to shorten the showing cycle further! I’m sorry but I am not buying this - I have owned this horse for 19 years and veteran horses feet usually slow down not speed up. I’m going to have some stern words with my farrier on Wednesday. I would change but there really does seem to be a lack of decent farriers around this part of Lincolnshire.

Last photo is what they looked like this time last year for comparison.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

The heals are under run you can see the shoe is so far forward its not under the heal.

He needs to cut the toe back more.

How many weeks are you shoeing?

I do think though as the horse gets older the feet do change Arabi is 20 now and his toes seem to just grow overnight in summer, they never used to and I've had him 18 years so it may just be how they grow now.

It may have something to do with the structures changing in sude so the feet grow differently over time.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Also the pedal bone does often sink with age so maybe the toe grows more to compensate for that.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

He is being shod every five weeks. possibly but this has only happened in the last three months since I’ve had the new farrier which is why I am questioning it. If it had happened and I hadn’t had to change farriers then I might not be questioning it quite so much.