Broken...but not too broken thanks to my Kan!

indeed curious myself from a medical point of view, cervical neck injuries are horrific and it would be very interesting to see what orthopaedic medics opinion of that was. I do hope your recovery is speedy and you get back out having fun again x
 
countrychick said:
indeed curious myself from a medical point of view, cervical neck injuries are horrific and it would be very interesting to see what orthopaedic medics opinion of that was. I do hoipe your recovery is speedy and you get back out having fun again x
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Have just had a quick google and I think it was my odontoid peg that the orthopaedic guys were worried about, from what I have read there are 3 types on odontoid fracture, Type III being the worst, surely if you had a basic C spine fracture which then underwent the force of an airbag going off you could conceivably destabilise the fracture or develop it further? I agree would be interesting to know a proper orthpaedic medics POV on this as I could well be talking out of my backside!
I also wonder if it would be possible to put some sort of a protective collar on body protectors, almost as if your wearing a polo shirt and flick the collar up, I don't know the ins and outs of doing something like this though and if it would be practical or even work?
 
CaleruxShearer said:
Countrychick - I think you make a very good point here, although they say they [the cannisters] never fail essentially they are machines to a point and so I suppose there can be no 100% guarantee that every cannister will work every time, falling onto one would be horrendous (having suffered a kidney infection I hate to imagine what a perforated one would feel like!) However one thing that I did think about during my long, codeine fuelled night in A&E ;) is what would have happened if I had fractured my neck, it was my cervical vertebrae at the top of my neck (think they called it my peg?) that they were worried about, if it had been fractured, and it would have been fractured when I hit the fence, not the eurotrack school surface, surely the P2 going off could have destabilised the fracture, potentially making it worse?
Now I am more than happy to be corrected if I am wrong, and it is absolutely not my intent to set off on a crusade against P2 I am purely wondering! Thoughts appreciated :)
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Precisely the reason why I would never wear one, nor would my parents (Dr and nurse) allow me to!!! Alonside potential spinal fracture displacement it is also possible that the sudden generation and transfer of kinectic energy from the airbag inflating it could also result in potentially fatal pelvic fracture displacements which could easily severe the femoral artery and the fact that the P2 deflation would quickly destablise any fracture obtained during a fall... *steps away from soapbox*

CaleruxShearer very pleased to read you are OK :) Hope you don't feel too sore for too long.
 
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oh my goodness! you poor thing,I so pleased to hear you are ok! Thank goodness!:eek::)


i also am curious and this thread has raised a few questions for me...

i have currently replaced my racesafe 2000 with the new 2010 and am very happy with it, i plan to wear a P2 for XC with it. I however am very impressed with the foam technology kan uses and so am not discounting one in the future.

I understand from treehouse that BE are recommending the racesafe &P2 combination thought for eventing?

also..surely the pitfalls of the P2 potentially making a fracture worse would only happen if it went off AFTER impact, eg in those cases of a very close rotational fall where the jacket doesnt have time to inflate? Surely in most cases when you fall it will have gone off before impact and any inuries would happen once it is already inflated,so how could it de-stablise a fracture?

furthermore, isnt (takinginto account the above) the P2 is going to provide more stability/support to your neck than any BP can?

and one final thought.... what about the rodney powel neck supports?
http://www.saddler.co.uk/shop.html?pr=5125&cr=10013
 
From a medical point of view your doomed if you do and doomed if you don't

a P2 will possibly stop some spinal fractures occurring in the first place,as they are inflated by the time you hit the ground, and in other cases, it may destabilize them as they deflate.
On top of that you have the other worries about what if it doesn't work or as someone said the canister goes off at the wrong time/place. I do not have a medical opinion on the other things mentioned.
I am not saying I would never wear one or telling others not too wear anything, just how nothing is perfect for all eventualities and it never can be.

I have possible problems with 'the peg' due to Rhuematoid arthritis and have looked at practical ways of protecting it....results there isn't anyway that is practical, the Mark Todd thing would not be enough, anything else would be too restricting and make me too hot. God knows I get hot enough when riding as it is, which is why I don't wear my BP everyday. However this post has like others similar yet again given me food for thought that I should wear it more. My son is also a paramedic and I dare not tell him I don't wear it, he would rightly go nuts :o

As for BE recommending certain products, we all know how politics affects views and the fact by the time BE have done all their 'looking into things' it is very possible newer better things are on the market which they haven't considered.

I emailed BE 2 months ago about using a product, still no answer! not even acknowledged my email :mad:
 
NeverSayNever said:
also..surely the pitfalls of the P2 potentially making a fracture worse would only happen if it went off AFTER impact, eg in those cases of a very close rotational fall where the jacket doesnt have time to inflate? Surely in most cases when you fall it will have gone off before impact and any inuries would happen once it is already inflated,so how could it de-stablise a fracture?
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BUT rotationals are not the only falls where this can happen.... I know plenty of people who have sustained injuries (myself included) where the rider would not have been far enough away from the horse to initiate the airbag inflation until AFTER the impact has been sustained. Furthermore, injuries to neck and torso are particularly common in such incidences so it begs the question of what safety kit is most effective in "worst case scenarios" rather than the more common, less damaging falls where typically people will walk away with no much more than a minor injury as imo these aren't the ones we should be most concerned with protecting ourselves from. I would be interested to know whether anyone witnessed the OP's fall as if I have read correctly she collided with the fencing and this *may* have been one example of when such an event whereby there would have been insufficient time/distance to have triggered a p2?? I may however be completely mistaken.

I'm not trying to lecture people on whether they should or shouldn't wear a p2 in much the same way that I wouldn't lecture someone on wearing a hat but I do believe that people should have the opportunity to make informed decisions which means that both pro's and cons should be considered and for me that means carefully considering how a piece of kit could infact leave the wearer worse off than if they hadn't been wearing it. For me the P2 carries too much risk in such circumstances but I can understand why others may not share my judgement and that is fine so long as it is an informed and educated decision, not simply the results of good marketing!
 
Wow, having looked at the Kan and read your story I may rethink body protectors. As a fairly large busted and very short backed individual I find most body protectors unbelievably uncomfortable, even the race-safe ones feel horribly restricting and considering I have to fight not to hold my breath when I am nervous anyway (once leading to me passing out half way round a longer than usual jumping course) anything that restricts my breathing really doesn't help. The Kan is the first BP I have looked at that looks like it would be comfortable and the sizing options are excellent. Before I have always pointed out that though a BP might protect me when I fall off it also increases significantly the likelihood of me falling off because I am ridgid and fighting it all the time.
 
Tiny Fluffy Coblet said:
Wow, having looked at the Kan and read your story I may rethink body protectors. As a fairly large busted and very short backed individual I find most body protectors unbelievably uncomfortable, even the race-safe ones feel horribly restricting and considering I have to fight not to hold my breath when I am nervous anyway (once leading to me passing out half way round a longer than usual jumping course) anything that restricts my breathing really doesn't help. The Kan is the first BP I have looked at that looks like it would be comfortable and the sizing options are excellent. Before I have always pointed out that though a BP might protect me when I fall off it also increases significantly the likelihood of me falling off because I am ridgid and fighting it all the time.
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Chloe_GHE on here has one, and I think she said she gets claustrophobic, but the Kan doesn't set her off... the side pieces of foam slide over each other inside the cover as your ribcage expands, so you can take a really deep breath without restriction. they're easy to shorten to fit, either before being sent to you, or in my case i altered it a bit more myself with a stanley knife. (i use mine for backing/riding youngsters so am sitting upright in the saddle a lot, so it needs to be shorter than i'd have it for xc, so it doesn't bump the saddle.)
have a look at kirstyhen's post about hers, she has the Madonna version (for those blessed with a chest!) ;) ;)
btw, singing under your breath as you go round a course will prevent you from holding your breath. general consensus on here seems to be that "Nelly the Elephant" has the perfect tempo for a good sj canter!
 
kerilli said:
Hear hear. The thing is, if anything is marketed as 'safety equipment' we all naturally believe that it must be safer in all eventualities... we all trust that extensive testing has been carried out to prove that, too...
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you could say that about seatbelts and airbags in cars as well though... they don't protect in all instances and in some cases cause injuries themselves.

I was very against the P2 when it first came out and then the more I looked and read and researched the more I realised I was actually following the scaremongering that goes on (mainly on internet boards).

to the OP, very glad you are ok and seems your body protector did it's job very well.
Brings home how risky horse riding is when even a walk around an arena can end in a trip to A&E!
 
[QUOTE=kerilli;9440160 (i use mine for backing/riding youngsters so am sitting upright in the saddle a lot, so it needs to be shorter than i'd have it for xc, so it doesn't bump the saddle.)


Interested to read this as I used my Kan for the 1st time when xc schooling last week.....when I 1st got on,I thought that it was a little too long at the back, but then never noticed it again.


Brighthair, I am not small up top(!), and no other BPs fitted,so I assumed I would need the seriously curvy version of the Kan, but no!!.So try one if you can, i suspect you will find it more "roomy" than you expect!!!.
 
brighthair said:
quizzie said:
yeah - it's cos on the website when I clicked on the sizes, the biggest is a E and I am *counts*er 7 sizes bigger than that :eek:
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Well, if you give Wendy a call, with your measurements, I'm sure she'll tell you whether 1 will fit or not. fwiw I've seen someone with a proper bust (no idea what size she is, but not tiny at all!) and she has the flatter version not the busty version...
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kerilli said:
brighthair said:
Well, if you give Wendy a call, with your measurements, I'm sure she'll tell you whether 1 will fit or not. fwiw I've seen someone with a proper bust (no idea what size she is, but not tiny at all!) and she has the flatter version not the busty version...
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why didn't I think of that?! *blonde moment" I'll give them a ring :D
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Well what can I say other than OUCH!!

Im loving how much the kan protected you, Ive had one since they were first released on the market and would never trade it in for anything, its incredibly comfortable, dont squash me boobs (unlike every other one ive worn!) and gives me much more movement than any other BP ive ever worn or tried! Much to my dissapointment when I was at college my claims as to how good they are were met with guffaws and people winging about how heavy it is!! yet im the only one who hasnt been rushed into hospital after a bad fall <trys to not look smug> . I have even been kicked in the chest by a 17hh heavyweight monster of a horse with not even a bruise to show for it, just slightly winded!!

Anyway, hope you are feeling back to yourself as soon as poss!
 
Ginn said:
I would be interested to know whether anyone witnessed the OP's fall as if I have read correctly she collided with the fencing and this *may* have been one example of when such an event whereby there would have been insufficient time/distance to have triggered a p2?? I may however be completely mistaken.
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Ginn - You make a good point here and one that had occurred to me, however I wasn't keen to post anything about it until I had spoken to someone who had seen the fall and got the facts straight considering I don't remember the fall happening! Apparently I was quite close to the fence and hit the top of the fence as I came off as opposed to the bottom, if that makes sense. I also kept hold off the reins as I fell, only letting go (I assume) when I was knocked unconscious. Therefore if I had hold of the reins as I was falling and hit the top of the fence I would have thought that I would have been 'pulling' the horse toward me as it were through my contact on the reins and so he would have remained quite close to me. I hope this makes sense and you can understand what I'm waffling about!
It is in this circumstance that I wonder whether an air jacket would have inflated?
 
Do you mind if I ask if the fence broke under the impact? And were the rails nailed to the inside or the outside of the fence?

Your post has really prompted me to think about exactly how we fence in our arena and I am trying to figure out what would be the safest option.
 
Booboos said:
Do you mind if I ask if the fence broke under the impact? And were the rails nailed to the inside or the outside of the fence?

Your post has really prompted me to think about exactly how we fence in our arena and I am trying to figure out what would be the safest option.
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Thats a v good point actually, because all arenas i can think of, the rails are on the inside of the posts, when surely it would be safer in most situations for them to be nailed to the outside?

Glad you ok btw L :)
 
bigboyrocky said:
Thats a v good point actually, because all arenas i can think of, the rails are on the inside of the posts, when surely it would be safer in most situations for them to be nailed to the outside?
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that's an interesting thought, which I have never considered, and although only the 2 short sides of my arena are fenced, the rails are nailed to the top of the posts - which I assume is where op came to grief (on the short end of the arena I mean)
 
bigboyrocky said:
Thats a v good point actually, because all arenas i can think of, the rails are on the inside of the posts, when surely it would be safer in most situations for them to be nailed to the outside?

Glad you ok btw L :)
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the rails need to be on the inside, because otherwise you'll risk smashing your knees on the posts. any gates and gateposts should be absolutely flush with the rails (often they aren't.)

fwiw i don't have a fence around my arena, i have railway sleepers to keep the surface in, and then about 4' away down the bank i have posts and fieldguard electric tape. i had the same thing at my last place, never had a problem with it there either.
 
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