Broncing Pony - In Pain or Just Naughty?!

[TwiggyL]

Hello

My 19yr old welsh c pony seems reluctant to go forward, often getting his head down and threatening to bronc or buck when transitioning into trot (accompanied occasionally by not trotting at all for a while) and even more so from trot to canter. He has recently bucked and bronced a few times with both me and my young sharer. He can also be quite nappy out hacking when alone, with a variety of riders!

His back is done regularly as he is sensitive backed. His teeth are done, feet are good, I ride him in a Christ lamfelle pad so saddle fit is not a problem (unless the pad is hurting him in some way).

The only two options I’m left with are he needs a second opinion on the back or ulcers. But he is not a textbook ulcer type.

He has been worse since we moved yards in December but this does correlate with him being in more work and getting fitter. He is generally quite a sensitive type, or at least he has been since I bought him a year and a half ago - he had been passed from
Pillar to post for a year or so prior to me getting him.

Just wanted some opinions and if anyone had experienced anything similar.

 

[be positive]

In my experience being sensitive in the back and requiring regular physio means there is a cause coming from somewhere else, the physio should have referred him to a vet by now as he is not genuinely responding to treatment if they are having to come out regularly to put them right.
It is likely to be something in his hind legs, at his age the start of arthritic changes in the hocks would be my guess and would be the place I would expect a vet to go to first, it will cause back related pain especially if the work has been increased and he has been stabled more over winter, get the vet out to give him a basic work up.

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd agree with BP and say that's cause for some veterinary investigations - and I'd start with hind legs before ulcers too, probably.

 

[bubsqueaks]

If as you say he's a sensitive type & been passed around I would definitely consider ulcers - broncking & relucatance to work/go forward is one of the indicators.

 

[conniegirl]

most horses/ponys who buck in a predictable manner are doing it because they are in pain. Those that bronc are 90% of the time in significant distress be it via physical pain or mental distress.

If it were the odd buck, once in a while when going into canter or at the start of exciting stuff (like jumping for some horses) then your could ignore it. But a horse that is consistently bucking/broncing or even just resistant during transitions needs investigating by saddler, vet, dentist and physio!

Also whilst bareback pads are great at getting rid of saddle fit issues they are utterly crap at distributing weight away from the boney parts of the spine and infact if used with stirrups can actually concentrate pressure over the spine which causes soreness.

 

[TwiggyL]

most horses/ponys who buck in a predictable manner are doing it because they are in pain. Those that bronc are 90% of the time in significant distress be it via physical pain or mental distress.

If it were the odd buck, once in a while when going into canter or at the start of exciting stuff (like jumping for some horses) then your could ignore it. But a horse that is consistently bucking/broncing or even just resistant during transitions needs investigating by saddler, vet, dentist and physio!

Also whilst bareback pads are great at getting rid of saddle fit issues they are utterly crap at distributing weight away from the boney parts of the spine and infact if used with stirrups can actually concentrate pressure over the spine which causes soreness.

I’m really stuck between a rock and a hard place with the pad, I had so many problems with traditional saddles not fitting him and he was bucking upon mounting, almost every time.

I tried the pad and he was much better and more forward going, but now I too fear it may not be that comfortable for him.

Sadly, I do not have a pit of money so I have to stop somewhere with saddle fitting!

Someone did mention checking his stifles to me so I don’t know if that could also be an issue x

 

[ozpoz]

I would think his back is "sensitive" for a reason and that is probably pain. This pain recognition video is helpful for every horse owner - please have a look:

If you are riding him in a pad, are you sure that the stirrup bars, which take all your weight, are not making his already sensitive back worse? They can put an awful lot of pressure in a much smaller area than a traditionally designed saddle.

 

[conniegirl]

ock and a hard place with the pad, I had so many problems with traditional saddles not fitting him and he was bucking upon mounting, almost every time.

I tried the pad and he was much better and more forward going, but now I too fear it may not be that comfortable for him.

Sadly, I do not have a pit of money so I have to stop somewhere with saddle fitting!

Someone did mention checking his stifles to me so I don’t know if

Most welsh C's tend to get on OK with the Fylde range of show saddles, they are designed for fat native ponies. Alternativly the Ideal Ramsey and Farrington working hunter saddles also seems to fit a lot of natives quite well (including my own section C, connemara and section D).

It may be that the relief from the badly fitting saddle resulted in the improvement you saw, bareback pads are a great short term alternative, in the long term however they can cause extra sensitivity due to the concentration of pressure from the stirrups and the lack of weight distribution away from the spine. It may be that your pony has now got to the stage where that pressure is bothering him, which would tie in with this bucking being a recent development and escalating from just resistance (lowering of the head and reluctance to go forward), to bucking and now with a hint of broncing!
It it is not addressed soon you may end up with full on rodeo displays with rearing thrown in for good measure.

 

[Muddywellies]

My horse wasn't showing classic symptoms of ulcers however her behaviour was becoming unpredictable so we scoped her and found extremely painful grade 3 ulcers which were bleeding. I would scope without delay.

 

[Tarragon]

He doesn't sound happy to me at all and sadly I think it is going to cost you more money to get to the bottom of it.
If he was mine I would try a process of elimination on each of the following (though I am not too sure which order I would try it in!)
1. Different saddle - have another go at getting a saddle fitter in to see if that makes a difference
2. Different rider - does he behave the same with a better rider? Perhaps get a professional in to get some feedback
3. Vet check up
4. Physio
5. Equine dentist

 

[TwiggyL]

He doesn't sound happy to me at all and sadly I think it is going to cost you more money to get to the bottom of it.
If he was mine I would try a process of elimination on each of the following (though I am not too sure which order I would try it in!)
1. Different saddle - have another go at getting a saddle fitter in to see if that makes a difference
2. Different rider - does he behave the same with a better rider? Perhaps get a professional in to get some feedback
3. Vet check up
4. Physio
5. Equine dentist

He can be slightly better with a more competent rider but had displayed signs with a few different riders of varying ability.

The problem is you often just get told to ride through it but I really feel as though there is something irritating him.

His teeth are fine and up to date and his back is done regularly although I agree a second opinion may be worth while.

 

[Pc2003]

I think most of the time, horses and ponies that buck/bronc usually do due to pain/discomfort. I’ve discovered this myself over the years unfortunately.
I agree it’s going to cost you to get to the bottom of it. My horse requires regular physio due to having hock arthritis.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

Hello
, I ride him in a Christ lamfelle pad so saddle fit is not a problem (unless the pad is hurting him in some way).
.

A saddle fitter said to me once that he makes sure the saddle fits the horse and then people put absurd pads underneath changing the fit. Not suggesting you are doing that but just saying that some people do. I think people make the mistake of fitting thick pads under the saddle to protect the horses back. If your shoes are too tight and making your feet sore you wouldn't put thicker socks on because it would make them tighter still. Also there are 'back people' and there are registered physios and osteopaths. It depends which ones have come out to your horse. I hope you get it sorted though.

 

[ester]

at 19yo I'd be giving him a veterinary work up.

The potential issues with the pad will also depend a bit on your own weight, as said above stirrups + bareback pad types can cause a lot of pressure.

HB the OP isn't using a saddle at all, just the pad, it isn't one that goes under a saddle.

 

[TwiggyL]

A saddle fitter said to me once that he makes sure the saddle fits the horse and then people put absurd pads underneath changing the fit. Not suggesting you are doing that but just saying that some people do. I think people make the mistake of fitting thick pads under the saddle to protect the horses back. If your shoes are too tight and making your feet sore you wouldn't put thicker socks on because it would make them tighter still. Also there are 'back people' and there are registered physios and osteopaths. It depends which ones have come out to your horse. I hope you get it sorted though.

I literally ride in a bareback pad - he had back problems before he came to me and I know previous owners advice was “he gets a sore back so stick a half pad under” which was probably the start of his issues!!
I have a “back person” but have just booked in for a mctimoney practitioner to come and have a look at him?

 

[TwiggyL]

at 19yo I'd be giving him a veterinary work up.

The potential issues with the pad will also depend a bit on your own weight, as said above stirrups + bareback pad types can cause a lot of pressure.

HB the OP isn't using a saddle at all, just the pad, it isn't one that goes under a saddle.

He is 380kg and I weigh just over 9stone. So “technically” I’m not too heavy for him - but Previous owners may have been and if he is struggling I may be on the heavier side for him! (he came to me sore and I thought my regular back checks would suffice but obviously not!)

 

[ester]

Sorry I wasn't suggesting you were too heavy for him/that was causing the issue at all! It is more that those who report issues with pads, and uneven pressure distribution tend to be adults on ponies (I'm an adult on a pony myself).
It's the uneven pressure distribution particular with stirrups attached to a 'plain' pad that is the issue.

 

[teddypops]

I would get the vet out first of all to actually diagnose any issues. Any ‘back’ people should be secondary to this.

 

[conniegirl]

He is 380kg and I weigh just over 9stone. So “technically” I’m not too heavy for him - but Previous owners may have been and if he is struggling I may be on the heavier side for him! (he came to me sore and I thought my regular back checks would suffice but obviously not!)

If he is a full up substantial 13.2hh section C then he is more than capable of carrying your weight IF he isnt sore and if the pad is not causing pressure points.
Mine is a substantial section C (who is 18yrs old, he's the one in my avatar) and he happily carts my lardy arse up the gallops with no issue and I weigh substantially more than 9stone!

Treed saddles take the weight from you and distributes them across a substantial area of the horses back but avoid putting pressure on the bony structures of the spine by acting like a bridge across the bony bits and transferring the weight to the strong muscles either side of the spine. A bareback pad has no mechanism with which to do this so the pressure and weight will be focused on where the stirrups attach to the pad, where your bum contacts his back and the material between the stirrup bars which is directly on the spine.

 

[ozpoz]

Re. weight carrying: not every horse is capable of carrying a saddle which will fit the rider too. And the rider not fitting the saddle, being unbalanced or, as is often seen, sitting with their weight on or over the cantle will cause the horse pain. It is up to us to check this for our horses - they are generally uncomplaining until it becomes unbearable.

 

[TwiggyL]

Re. weight carrying: not every horse is capable of carrying a saddle which will fit the rider too. And the rider not fitting the saddle, being unbalanced or, as is often seen, sitting with their weight on or over the cantle will cause the horse pain. It is up to us to check this for our horses - they are generally uncomplaining until it becomes unbearable.

This is the main issue I have with him and finding a saddle that fits us both.

As I said before, he came to me with back problems so I don’t think they are directly caused by something I’ve done, but possibly have been exacerbated by something I am doing which isn’t obvious, or it’s another part of him that is sore.

I am a lightweight, long legged 5ft5 and his saddled back does not fit my bum!

 

[ester]

Essentially this pony sounds pretty unhappy, and given that he was passed around a lot too has potentially been coping with a physical issue for at least 2.5 years. He really does need to see a vet.

 

[BBP]

Definitely not just being naughty and definitely don’t just try to ride through it. Mine bucked me off big time last night, took me completely by surprise, he was feeling a bit fresh so I thought I’d do a few canter laps in a light seat, the second I got light in the saddle and allowed my hands forward to let him move out, he took 2 big strides then jammed the brakes on, shoved his head between his knees and catapulted me. Got back on once I got my wind back and he tried to do it again, when I wouldn’t let him get his head down he then refused to move forwards and was wanting to explode on the spot.

The last time he was like this he had ulcers and sacroiliac pain, but this time he is moving really well so I’m hoping he’s just super fresh, over fed and underworked. My game plan tonight is to work him loose, hard and then get back on. If he still tries to buck, it will be Vet and osteopath.

 

[TwiggyL]

Definitely not just being naughty and definitely don’t just try to ride through it. Mine bucked me off big time last night, took me completely by surprise, he was feeling a bit fresh so I thought I’d do a few canter laps in a light seat, the second I got light in the saddle and allowed my hands forward to let him move out, he took 2 big strides then jammed the brakes on, shoved his head between his knees and catapulted me. Got back on once I got my wind back and he tried to do it again, when I wouldn’t let him get his head down he then refused to move forwards and was wanting to explode on the spot.

The last time he was like this he had ulcers and sacroiliac pain, but this time he is moving really well so I’m hoping he’s just super fresh, over fed and underworked. My game plan tonight is to work him loose, hard and then get back on. If he still tries to buck, it will be Vet and osteopath.

Funnily enough when I first got him, a vet checked over his back while he had his jabs and did say it was sacroiliac pain. I just need to understand this better and what I can do to help it, and if this could be affecting anything else/there are other sore points x

 

[ester]

SI pain is often linked to problems with hind suspensories, and hocks.

 

[conniegirl]

I am a lightweight, long legged 5ft5 and his saddled back does not fit my bum!

Try a show saddle, I'm a hefty long legged 5ft4 and I can fit my ginormous arse comfortably into a saddle that fits the back of my section C. Show saddles have less of an issue with the length of your thigh due to thier lack of knee roll, but will distribute the weight over a much bigger area than a bareback pad.

 

[TwiggyL]

Try a show saddle, I'm a hefty long legged 5ft4 and I can fit my ginormous arse comfortably into a saddle that fits his back. Show saddles have less of an issue with the length of your thigh due to thier lack of knee roll, but will distribute the weight over a much bigger area than a bareback pad.

Thank you, I will definitely look into these. I have recently bought him a Heather Moffett pad-dle, but wondering if I’ve done the right thing now!!

 

[ozpoz]

Maybe get him treated first? You know he has been diagnosed by your vet with sacroileac pain, you know he's objecting to being ridden, you know he had back problems before he came to you. For your safety and his welfare, I would just get an equine vet to help you forward now, before you do any more ridden work.

 

[Beausmate]

Given his age and the time of year, I'd also want a vet to check his feet out.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Hello

My 19yr old welsh c pony seems reluctant to go forward, often getting his head down and threatening to bronc or buck when transitioning into trot (accompanied occasionally by not trotting at all for a while) and even more so from trot to canter. He has recently bucked and bronced a few times with both me and my young sharer. He can also be quite nappy out hacking when alone, with a variety of riders!

His back is done regularly as he is sensitive backed. His teeth are done, feet are good, I ride him in a Christ lamfelle pad so saddle fit is not a problem (unless the pad is hurting him in some way).

The only two options I’m left with are he needs a second opinion on the back or ulcers. But he is not a textbook ulcer type.

He has been worse since we moved yards in December but this does correlate with him being in more work and getting fitter. He is generally quite a sensitive type, or at least he has been since I bought him a year and a half ago - he had been passed from
Pillar to post for a year or so prior to me getting him.

Just wanted some opinions and if anyone had experienced anything similar.

WOULD CHECK THIS LIST


1. Pain
2. Saddle
3. teeth
4. bit.
4. blood test and vet visit
5. Chiro / physio
6. Diet
7. work load, not enough with grass intake

Not ness in this order