Broncing youngster

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katerider

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Hi, Just after some advice/experiences really -
I have a 6yo that I bought unbacked 18 months ago with the idea of backing myself and then bringing on to low level event/rc.
I've backed a few before so I was quite confident I could do another one.....but this one has me stumped!
I didn't start backing immediately due to circumstance but its taken me a year to get to the point of just walking in the school. The horse is quite nervous and unpredictable and will go into panic broncing with no warning - I don't know what to do?
Phisio/chiro/teeth/saddle fine. Lives out, no hard feed. Do they bronc because they are young and green or a year down the line is it pain related. Don't want to run up massive bills but am wondering g if a back xray is on the cards? Or am I being soft? Should I just keep working away? WWYD
 
Are you sure that it was really unbacked when you bought it? Unfortunately, it is quite common for people who try to back a horse and fail to then sell it on as 'unbacked'. :(

If you are experienced at backing young horses and still after a year you can still only walk in the school, and it is still having episodes of panic bronking, surely there must be something wrong somewhere! Is the horse nervous and unpredictable in other circumstances or just when under saddle?
 
My first thought was that some-one had probably already tried to back this horse and had a problem.

No, it isn't usual for a properly started youngster with no physical issue to bronc.

It always amazes me that people have physio, teeth, saddle and all other manner of checks done rather than having a vet out.

Like TheMule said - vet and some x-Rays as a starting point.
 
I got mine as a freebie 'lightly backed'. Turned out she'd done somersaults and squished someone. Definitely get a vet out. If there's a pain response in back or legs then you won't get anywhere until it's treated no matter how slowly you go.
 
Sounds to me that someone had attempted to break him before, maybe they werent much of a rider and fell off with a baby buck! Or even the horse bucked so they put him away. The horse may then have learnt that bucking = no work!!
Or maybe some clever spark jumped on him in the field and got bucked off. Another way a horse could learn a naughty habit. Or maybe he had had a fright as a youngster causing him to be nervous of a rider.
Also I think a thorough back check would be in order, a girl I know had a horse like this- random bucking, even 40mins into a schooling session after perfect behaviour till then. Turned out he had ulceration of the spine probably caused by undiagnosed kissing spines.
I dont think a totally starting from scratch horse would still be behaving like this after a year of breaking starting.
 
I know a dealer who sold an "un backed" 5 yr old.

It was a horse that had a history of bolting - he took its shoes off, let the nail holes grow out, then sold it from the field.

I strongly suspect yours may have had a bad experience or two before you got him.
 
My sympathies, OP from another who has broken in several youngsters before and not had any significant problems. I now have a 6 year old that has a rearing problem. Apart from not liking contact on the bit (which I didn't push or persevere with because quite frankly I have changed my thinking regarding bits in the last few years) she was an angel to back. She would line herself up at the block without tack and let you get on her. She never gave me a moments trouble in the rope halter or saddle, or when lunged. Except when I lunged with side reins or got on her with a bit in her mouth and took up any contact. She only had the bit in a handful of times to work. She was great to bridle and I could leave her in the stable in the bit and she would chompp her hay, but any sort of contact and no way. However, as she was quite an eager beaver, and I had had a year off due to illness, I decided to send her away to be ridden on as I felt I wasn't committed enough to persist with the bitting and I needed to have control of her head if I was to progress. She was again great when they got on her and lunged, but started rearing and napping when they rode her in the school. They rode her through it and before she came back to me she was going quite sweetly. I rode her there a couple of times in the indoor, but not the outdoor (where apparently she was difficult). Anyway, when she came back the rearing (or attempted rearing as I could prevent her from doing it by keeping her moving) was just too much for my nerves in the end and I got the rider who had ridden her away back to ride her here. She was awful. Repeated vertical rears, getting worse each time she rode her. Anyway, I am convinced it must be pain related because this is NOT normal in a newly broken youngster. Just like your boy's behaviour is NOT normal. You are not being 'soft' at all. I have had a new dentist out to mine and her teeth were really bad. I also booked the vet but managed to get my physio to her last week too. Vet is coming out tomorrow. The trainers think it is not a physical issue and she is just being a stroppy mare. This makes me feel 'soft' too, but I am committed to finding an answer. So far she has had her teeth sorted and the physio has found some dysfunction around the hyoid, which makes me suspect a TMJ problem. I would not ride your boy again until you get the vet out. I presume you have had the saddler and dentist?
 
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My mare went off to be backed last year & was broncing under saddle,turned out to have ligament damage in her back from kissing spines,plus some other issues.
 
I've only had one unbacked youngster, so not a lot of experience, but he used to LOVE broncing. I am sure he had nothing done before I got him as he was bought straight from the breeder and was barely handled- putting a headcollar on was a bit of an issue at first, let alone a saddle, and he had only just turned 3. He does seem to enjoy bucking in general and is a hot-headed ginger. He bucks when he is excited about being turned out on new grass, or when he sees a new horse, or in frustration when he knocks a pole jumping (he LOVES jumping) or sometimes just because he's had time off for whatever reason. He's been checked over by vets, physio & saddle fitter who all say apart from being tense there's no actual problem, its just his nature. After him having a year off due to my ill health however he was really bad coming back into work- even trying to lead him in hand in a saddle had him doing a reasonable rodeo impression. This time it turns out it was his stomach- he's on a supplement to deal with ulcers and he's back to only bucking in excitement and at knocked poles (only a couple of times a month- not bad!) Another instance he was really bad was after a nasty fall in the field- took physio 6 months to get him back on track. Anything serious is likely to be pain or fear related, but some horses do just like to buck, and will do so much more easily than others! A professional once told me if they are going mental and bucking but not sweating after half an hour then they are likely putting it on (my boy does like to sometimes) but if they sweat up quickly then they are in pain or genuinely scared.
 
I would get the vet out. I know people will role their eyes as it seems to be the current 'in' thing for horses to have when misbehaving but I would also look at the possibility of ulcers.
My youngster was an angel to back and then out of nowhere started broncing when I first got on him. Took him up the vets and he had grade 3-4 ulcers which were causing him discomfort. It is key to find out what is causing them. We had back and feet X-rays done which luckily showed nothing, so after many test we put it down the the fact he had had a few very stressful weeks getting over his stabling issue (now thankfully sorted). Touch wood he has been fine ever since, bar one small period with a torn pectoral muscle where he wasn't able to be ridden.
 
mine was the devil to get backed and even once out competing and winning the occasional spook would turn in to a broncing fit.

18 months later the spooking deteriorated and he also started napping, and it turns out he had infected bleeding ulcers the vet thinks could have been there since weaning...........explains a lot and i feel awful :(

even if she doesnt look like an ulcer horse (mine has always been fat and shiny with a super appetite) i would start with a scope and if clear,back x rays.
 
horsemadelsie said:
A professional once told me if they are going mental and bucking but not sweating after half an hour then they are likely putting it on (my boy does like to sometimes) but if they sweat up quickly then they are in pain or genuinely scared.
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I do believe every horse has its own way of letting off steam. Some play-rear, some buck for fun, some gallop.......but buck for half an hour? Thats not normal!! Also theres a difference between bucking, which IMHO is usually fun ie after a jump and broncing, which is a deliberate attempt to get the 'thing' on its back off, whether it be roller, saddle or rider!
 
Id definately be getting the vet out. I had one I was backing who was coming along fine, it was very early days (just walking about with me on in the field) but in the first 2 weeks he suddenly took off full pelt broncing until I came off. With him, turned out his saddle (which had been professionally fitted and bought only a few weeks previously) was bridging! So angry with the saddler (who was fully qualified etc.). So Id possibly get a second opinion on the saddle just to rule it out.

Otherwise, ulcers I believe can make some horses spooky/sensitive?
 
stormox said:
I do believe every horse has its own way of letting off steam. Some play-rear, some buck for fun, some gallop.......but buck for half an hour? Thats not normal!! Also theres a difference between bucking, which IMHO is usually fun ie after a jump and broncing, which is a deliberate attempt to get the 'thing' on its back off, whether it be roller, saddle or rider!
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Not bucking for half an hour solid! But my boy absolutely hates being long-reined and having things touch his sides. He once spent an hour acting scared, intermittent bucking, on a fairly warm day, and didn't break a sweat, just because someone was determined to long rein him. He broncs in the field with nothing on him at all, usually if he's excited eg new grass, another horse acting up, new horse arriving etc. He really seems to like putting his head between his knees, arching his back and rodeo-ing on the spot or in a small circle, even when there's nothing to get rid of!
 
Glitterandrainbows said:
Thankyou for replying I’m having similar unexplained problems with my youngster was it the vet that diagnosed
Yes, I didn’t investigate hugely but back xrays and movement assessment gave me enough info to make the decision. It’s hideous, but looking back I still feel it was 100% the right thing to do. Good luck - I hope you have a better outcome.
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