Broodmare valuations

[mc.80]

Before I begin, this is not an underhand sales post but genuine interest/discussion

I’ve found the need to sell my mare (no issues at all, just a set of circumstances)

She’s from great bloodlines, graded with predicates and has produced many superb foals, so is very established. She’s backed, lunged and totally sound and has great movement. She’s only used as a broodmare because she produces great foals and is from good bloodlines and is a quality horse. It’s not one of these situations where a lame ridden horse gets turned out for breeding because there’s nothing else they can do.

Trying to sell her for any kind of value seems near on impossible. I’m quite shocked at what “budget” interested people seem to have (or I should say don’t have!). Honestly, they seem to want to pay the same for a broodmare as I might pay for a stud fee and certainly less than even a foal out of that same mare would sell for

Interested in any other views on this! Do people undervalue good broodmares or worse; don’t differentiate between broodmares and put them all in the same category? Are they seen as just a uterus when they are actually 50% of the breeding outcome?! Personally I think the mare is the most important investment. Anyone can pay a large stud fee - there’s zero skill in that

This might sound like a partial rant (and perhaps it is) but I am genuinely interested in other people’s views on this. Are my expectations just off and no matter the quality of the mare and bloodlines, they are just not worth a lot if they are breeding, or am I just not finding the right buyers who correctly value the mare?

 

[ihatework]

Personally I think they are significantly more than 50% of the breeding outcome. Genetically yes but ‘we’ overlook the nurture element too.

I agree with your sentiments that good broodmares are undervalued. Especially in the UK. I think it’s a bit better in Europe but then they are ahead of us in the breeding department. Unless you have an absolute superstar of a mare (ie her or direct damline elite performer, or offspring performing at upper levels) then sadly there is a ceiling on price and most in the UK would be in the 4 figures.

There are a lot of nice bloodlines and pretty foals about. So I do think broodmares have to differentiate themselves from the crowd to gain the high prices

 

[mc.80]

I totally agree with you that the mare is, all things considered, more than 50% of the resulting foal. It just leaves me dumbfounded how most people in the U.K. don’t seem to see it the same way! Some of the prices I’ve heard thrown around for broodmares is shocking (I’m talking low 4 figures being a lot of people’s budget). Considering what money people throw at tack and even stud fees if breeding, it’s puzzling to me how the broodmare is wanted on the cheap. Or how they can think that a 6 month old foal out of that same mare is worth more than the mare that produced it and can continue producing more of them!

I take your point about competition around though and needing to stand out. My mare is even highly graded by her breeding association (trying to avoid turning this into a sales post, so being vague), but people seem to not take that into account

Thanks for your input - glad I’m not the only one that feels this way

 

[AmyMay]

Whilst I agree with everything IHW says, your mare is at a disadvantage in what’s generally a poor market as she has no ridden or competitive record.

 

[mc.80]

Whilst I agree with everything IHW says, your mare is at a disadvantage in what’s generally a poor market as she has no ridden or competitive record.

That’s an interesting point and I agree, but I’d say that there’s a bit of a paradox. To produce a top ridden horse, you need a good broodmare. Unless all broodmares have to be ridden for the first part of their career to get results and then move to breeding, then don’t you have the issue where, of course, a broodmare doesn’t have much of a ridden/competitive record - she’s busy producing the next batch of competition horses!

I would also propose that competitive results are equally the result of training as well as breeding. Where as breeding is genetics (and a bit of chance from Mother Nature). You could have a horse that does amazingly well competing but does that make her any more likely to turn out great foals? You could have a horse that’s never been under saddle, from top bloodlines, who floats through the field and passes that on to her offspring. Though I get the point - a record of achievement is always going to give more confidence. I’m just proposing that perhaps not quite enough value is attached to good broodmares (and by good I mean top bloodlines, graded in top x % by breeding association, performance tested under saddle with good scores, good breeding history)

Totally get your point though and just enjoying the discussion on it - not arguing against it!

 

[ihatework]

Completely agree mc.80
It’s such a difficult conundrum

Take one well bred young mare and put her in 2 different yards for production.

One could sour and lame her making her look like a dud. The other could have her out at FEI. Same mare. However if she is untried, she is also unfailed - safe middle ground.

No easy answer.

Im just in the process of acquiring 2 fillies with half an eye on future breeding. The first is out of an amazing dam. The second out of a nice dam with good bloodlines but unproven. The latter filly will need to prove herself worthy to me to have a foal, whereas I might take one from the former at 3/4 because I think her damline merits it.

Overall I don’t completely support breeding from a mare that hasn’t proven herself sound in limb and mind. But I completely appreciate the counter argument ?

 

[mc.80]

Totally agree - there really isn’t an easy answer and it’s all very much down to a feeling. I think the other point made about competitive/ridden record is very true. I think it carries more weight than any grading of the mare and her breeding history. I think some people, looking to buy a mare to breed from, would be prepared to pay more for a mare that’s only been ridden (and done well) and has no real breeding history than a breeding mare from great bloodlines, who’s barely ridden but has a sound breeding history and many good foals to her name. Sad, but the way it is!

I’m confident my mare can be brought back into ridden work and it seems that will probably triple her value!! So I think that’s what I’ll do first and then try to sell her again!

 

[sport horse]

If she has produced 'many superb foals' where are they and at what level are they competing? If they are coming through the ranks in whatever discipline then your mare will be of more value. As she has not competed herself, until the foals compete then a breeder is taking a bit of a gamble. You do not say what age she is, nor how many foals she has bred both of which affect how many more foals she might be able to have. It is also a pretty poor time of year to be selling a broodmare. The stud season is over so a purchaser would have to keep the mare empty until next spring - or is she in foal and if so to what stallion?

 

[mc.80]

If she has produced 'many superb foals' where are they and at what level are they competing? If they are coming through the ranks in whatever discipline then your mare will be of more value. As she has not competed herself, until the foals compete then a breeder is taking a bit of a gamble. You do not say what age she is, nor how many foals she has bred both of which affect how many more foals she might be able to have. It is also a pretty poor time of year to be selling a broodmare. The stud season is over so a purchaser would have to keep the mare empty until next spring - or is she in foal and if so to what stallion?

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I get your point loud and clear. Unless she has competed or her foals have competed, then her bloodlines and her own high grading and predicates from her breeding association don’t mean much. It’s all about actual competing is what you’re saying.

To answer your questions, she’s 9 and has produced 4 foals, so has many years remaining - that’s not a factor.

I wasn’t ever saying she should be worth a king’s ransom, but just surprised how little people seem to want to pay for broodmares (and by little, I mean less than foals from the mare might sell for and in some cases, less than some stud fees!)

 

[honetpot]

There is just no real positive in breeding for the small owner breeder, so it's a very small market to sell to. I bought my best brood mare at two, had her backed and ridden away, so she had done something, she then had her first foal at five. The rest of the brood mares I bought had progeny that had been graded or competed, I got for very little money or for free. I had a free service to a stallion, but trying to find the right brood mare was just too difficult. If there are no progeny being ridden I want to know that the mare is trainable, and have an easy going temperament. I have not looked for a while but the most I paid was £500.

 

[ycbm]

I think part of the issue with brood mares is that there are so many available which have had some kind of injury or are with people who have over horsed themselves and just want to see the mare 'retired' somewhere safe and feel warm and cosy about her having foals.

The low end stud which my spotty came from has a field full of mares, some very well bred indeed, which were all gifted and not even paid meat money for. They are probably just about to get given another premium graded warmblood, which was bought for a very substantial sum at 5 years old.
.

 

[mc.80]

There is just no real positive in breeding for the small owner breeder, so it's a very small market to sell to. I bought my best brood mare at two, had her backed and ridden away, so she had done something, she then had her first foal at five. The rest of the brood mares I bought had progeny that had been graded or competed, I got for very little money or for free. I had a free service to a stallion, but trying to find the right brood mare was just too difficult. If there are no progeny being ridden I want to know that the mare is trainable, and have an easy going temperament. I have not looked for a while but the most I paid was £500.

Wow, I pay 4 times that for stud fees alone! Thanks for the input - very interesting. My mare is backed and has been ridden, so I think that’s the direction I’ll take her because she’s totally sound for riding and has passed ridden tests, so probably more value in her as ridden than a broodmare

 

[mc.80]

I think part of the issue with brood mares is that there are so many available which have had some kind of injury or are with people who have over horsed themselves and just want to see the mare 'retired' somewhere safe and feel warm and cosy about her having foals.

The low end stud which my spotty came from has a field full of mares, some very well bred indeed, which were all gifted and not even paid meat money for. They are probably just about to get given another premium graded warmblood, which was bought for a very substantial sum at 5 years old.
.

I think you hit the nail on the head. So many are not sound for riding and are only put as broodmares when they are lame (but field sound) or have finished a competing career and are older. Perhaps there just isn’t a value attached to those who are still youngish, well graded, top bloodlines, backed and could still be ridden. Great insight, thanks. I am starting to see why people will pay very little when so many are gifted for free and have nice breeding etc

 

[honetpot]

Wow, I pay 4 times that for stud fees alone! Thanks for the input - very interesting. My mare is backed and has been ridden, so I think that’s the direction I’ll take her because she’s totally sound for riding and has passed ridden tests, so probably more value in her as ridden than a broodmare

I used good stallions, but I was not breeding for the competition market. To be honest I have made more money on the selling price by buying them in as yearlings when no one wants them, when they look like donkeys, then selling them at four, and as much pleasure. By the time you have paid for AI, kept the mare and looked after the foal, if it doesn't sell as a foal, it gets harder to sell, so to cover your costs you end up selling them at four as ridden.
I often used to look at the mares at PC and think these are the ones that should be having foals, instead of some cast offs that have hardly been ridden or had any hard work, and think the stallion will make up all the genetic negatives.

 

[gallopingby]

Interesting comments and maybe the increase in sale prices will encourage people to start breeding more. It hasn’t been worthwhile for the past few years unless you were able to sell as a foal or yearling. Personally l prefer my broodmares to have a year or two out competing before being put in foal although doing this at three and foaling at four before then having a few years as a ridden competition horse can also be a useful way round.

 

[sport horse]

OP the gradings for your mare suggest she is bred to be a top sport horse. I have followed the sales of young horses and it is most definately the progeny of the top competition mares that fetch the top prices. There is precious little point in setting out to breed an'average' horse as the person requiring an 'average' horse is not prepared to pay even enough to cover breeding and producing such an animal (it actually costs pretty much the same as breeding a potentially top horse, the only difference being a slightly lower stud fee) If your mare can still be ridden she will be sorth a lot more as a ridden horse and also quite attractive to a buyer as they have the option of breeding again later on.

 

[Mazerati]

my broodmares range from 1,500-5,500

 

[Goldenstar]

I would say it easy to have a sound Broodmare that’s done no work .
for me a desirable mare has breeding ,type and performance .