Bruised pelvis after lesson.

[bassjunky]

Hi all,

Had my first lesson in over 15 years today, got to say I was mightily unimpressed but that is another story. I found the saddle so terribly uncomfortable, no matter how I positioned myself I was in at least mild pain with pressure on my pelvis. I am so sore now that it hurts to sit down or walk. I don't remember ever having this kind of discomfort from a saddle before. I think the horse knew it too as he didn't feel right under me.

Is this usual? Maybe I am just used to more comfy saddles.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Do you have your own horse? Or is this the first time you've ridden again in 15 years?

I think it's to be expected that you'd be sore afterwards if it has been such a long time since you've last ridden.
Maybe next time try to do some exercises before you get on and then when you're on to try and find the right place to sit. I find lifting my thighs away from the saddle really helps me work out how I need to be sitting.

 

[smellsofhorse]

As you are unimpressed with the whole lesson.
Maybe you shouldn't feel as sore as you do.
Can you give us more details?

Yes you will sore and achey but it could be worse than it should be.

Maybe we can suggest good riding schools etc?

 

[Tobiano]

Hm that doesn't sound right… could the tree have been broken?? Perhaps try somewhere else for your next lesson! Meanwhile warm bath and arnica if you are in pain. xx

 

[bassjunky]

Hi again, not sore as in muscular pain, my pelvis is bruised from pressure where I was sat!

I would expect some muscular pain and tbh Im not as sore as I expected in that respect (mostly down to the fact I didn't do a great deal) but it is the kind of pain you would get when using a man's bike and not having the correct support for your pelvis. I was trying to compensate for it by sitting further back in the saddle where it was more comfy (still uncomfortable) but instructor told me to sit further forward. It is first time I have ridden in 5 years but I used to have regular lessons as a kid and used to ride almost daily for a few years as a teen and never been in pain.

The lesson I was unimpressed with as although I haven't ridden for a long while I am confident and by no means a beginner, just out of practice. I would expect some level of caution/assessment when dealing with a rider you haven't had in before but this was ridiculous! I was told how to move the horse forward, halt and turn! I would hope that most people who have got to jumping stage (as stated on my new rider form) would know how to do that. I was lead around the arena for the first 5 mins then lunged for a further 20 before finishing with a short hack. I learnt nothing whatsoever except the place wasn't for me. The horse was unresponsive, unbalanced and was bored to death. He perked up a bit out on the hack but still sedate. I cant help feeling that his uneven pacing and lack of balance were in part due to him trying to compensate for my discomfort. I mentioned to the instructor that I wanted to resolve my bad habit of being a bit toes down in the stirrup and his response was to tell me it was fine and that I would grow out of it after a while and would improve on the hack. WTF!

I imagine the place would be perfect for very young children and absolute beginners who lack confidence and just want to plod along without really learning anything in particular but absolutely not for me. I love a forward going horse and quite like the cheeky ones who are a bit of hard work to keep in line but I got the impression they only have plod alongs there.

Needless to say I shan't be returning and was straight on the blower to a local place that had been recommended by many on here to go watch a lesson. I learnt so much just watching at that place (I stayed for 2 lessons I was so impressed) and have booked in for an assessment on Friday. I am expecting to make fast progress at that place and become a competent rider and more importantly understand the feedback I am getting from my horse so we can work better together The horses are very responsive there (one in particular has caught my eye and she is extremely sensitive without being unsafe) and seem to be enjoying the lessons for the most part, not bored or uncomfortable. I actually saw a great deal of improvement in each pair in the first lesson I watched which is very promising and the instructor makes you work hard which I like and expect after my childhood lessons (Auntie was a riding instructor and didn't pussy around).

I don't have a bath unfortunately (only a shower) cos I would really love some relief. Going to spend time with my new loan horse tomorrow and was planning a light hack but dreading it if I'm still so bruised tomorrow

 

[showpony]

Hi OP sounds like bruising has been caused by gripping too much by your Knee & your pelvis is over compensating .

 

[Illusion100]

I hacked in someone else's saddle recently and my seat bones were protesting before I even got off the yard. Half an hour later I had to stand in my stirrups for another half hour until we arrived back!

My bum was in agony for a couple of days. The saddle had a seat saver on it but it didn't help one bit. Some saddles just really don't fit a rider, IMO (and my bums!)

Hope you aren't sore for long.

 

[TigerTail]

TBH toes down is a v minor thing and is probably not as bad as you think it is if its not been picked up on.

Saddle discomfort is a nightmare in riding schools frankly - they don't usually have the money to have enough saddles to fit the horses never mind ensuring the comfort of the rider Suggest frozen peas wrapped in a tea towel on the area if no bath!

Personally I can only ride in Heather Moffett Vogues i have a v spoilt bum!

 

[bassjunky]

Hi OP sounds like bruising has been caused by gripping too much by your Knee & your pelvis is over compensating .

It hurt as soon as I sat on the horse so if that is the case it is not entirely the cause. I'm not sure I grip with my knees so much in general but I was doing some sitting trots when lunged, where I didn't feel particularly well balanced so may have been gripping then. Any tips on how to keep my damn heels down will be greatly appreciated, I have always done it and hate it because I think it really affects my balance and positioning, as my outside foot tends to get eaten by the stirrup and so I end up trying to fidget my toe back out. Some stretching might be worth a shot/ I am always rather impressed (and maybe a touch jealous) by riders who have stretched calves pushing down their heels.

Thanks Illusion100, awful isn't it! He was a bigger horse than I am used to riding (used to ride large ponies and smaller horses around the 13-14.2 range) and he was an ISH so might be down to a wider saddle, though even the smaller ones I used to ride were very cobby and wide. Anyway, I'm not going back there so won't have to deal with that God awful saddle again. Hopefully my loan horse has a comfy saddle or I might have to invest in some butt protection!

 

[bassjunky]

TBH toes down is a v minor thing and is probably not as bad as you think it is if its not been picked up on.

Saddle discomfort is a nightmare in riding schools frankly - they don't usually have the money to have enough saddles to fit the horses never mind ensuring the comfort of the rider Suggest frozen peas wrapped in a tea towel on the area if no bath!

Personally I can only ride in Heather Moffett Vogues i have a v spoilt bum!

I think this is a particularly uncomfy one as dnt remember these issues as a kid having lessons and I was a skinny kid ha.No natural padding in those days! Actually come to think of it, pelvis would be different shape then so hard to say. Might take a pillow with me tomorrow to protect my poor behind haha

 

[bassjunky]

TBH toes down is a v minor thing and is probably not as bad as you think it is if its not been picked up on.

Saddle discomfort is a nightmare in riding schools frankly - they don't usually have the money to have enough saddles to fit the horses never mind ensuring the comfort of the rider Suggest frozen peas wrapped in a tea towel on the area if no bath!

Personally I can only ride in Heather Moffett Vogues i have a v spoilt bum!

Oh and the toes down thing, I was always being told off in lessons for it when I was younger and my cousin has not so tactfully mentioned my feet ''flap about'' when we used to ride together as teens, though he might be mistaking my squeezing the horse on with every sit as ''flapping''. Duno if that's usual but I find my horse kept his pace better and I was more balanced when doing so. I lose stirrups or lose my feet to the stirrups due to my toes pointing down. I think its pretty bad personally so would like to improve upon it regardless

 

[Illusion100]

Thanks Illusion100, awful isn't it! He was a bigger horse than I am used to riding (used to ride large ponies and smaller horses around the 13-14.2 range) and he was an ISH so might be down to a wider saddle, though even the smaller ones I used to ride were very cobby and wide. Anyway, I'm not going back there so won't have to deal with that God awful saddle again. Hopefully my loan horse has a comfy saddle or I might have to invest in some butt protection!

I'm used to sport horses and this was a very, very well covered cob. I remember getting on and thinking 'Nope, only halfway across!'. My pelvis did not thank me.

Thinking of getting a heather moffett or acavello gel seat saver when my youngster is backed, even though my saddles are really comfy, want to see if it eases previous back/pelvis injuries. The one on the saddle was a fluffy one and it did nothing for me at all!

My seat bones are twinging in sympathy for you!

Regarding toes down issue, an unrelenting instructor and self discipline might be a way forward, good luck!

 

[Regandal]

Toes down - just put your toes on the stirrup iron/bar/thingy, not the ball of your foot. You may also need to hoick your stirrups up a hole.

 

[TigerTail]

Squeezing on every stride is just nagging - the horse learns to brace itself against this and therefore makes no difference and the horse actually becomes dead to the leg.
It probably makes you feel more secure so you don't get behind the movement.

Losing stirrups is most likely your position and stirrup length combined but without seeing you its hard to know. A lot of that depends on where the stirrup bars are positioned in relation to the deepest part of the seat.

A really good book is this one - lots of pics to help you

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enlightened...id=1413065748&sr=8-2&keywords=heather+moffett

 

[suffolkmare]

I'm glad you've found somewhere else to go! Agree that RS saddles are hit & miss! My daughter struggles with getting her heels down. When she was toddling she was always on tiptoes (always!) and I wonder if it affected her Achilles tendons. Anyway she tried step exercises, balancing on lower stairs on toes to drop heels down, to try to stretch them. Not sure if that worked or just continued effort when riding but her foot position is generally better now, so may be try that. Try adjusting stirrup length too, it may be a while till you ride as long as you used to, but hope you have fun with the new loan horse,

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is there a riding simulator in your area? I can thoroughly recommend a few sessions on one for anyone returning to the saddle after a lengthy break.

It was more enjoyable and more realistic than I had expected. I was encouraged to take my own saddle, though there were saddles available for those who needed them.

I went to this one:-

http://www.themodernhorse.co.uk/riding-simulator/

 

[bassjunky]

No riding simulator close by and given the price of a lesson on one I would rather just have a lesson on a horse even if there were one near here (nearest one is about 30/40 miles away).

Regarding the toes down issue I only slightly lost my foot to the stirrup the entire lesson at this new place! I think it may be somewhat related to the instruction I was given about my position as the feet didn't really get a mention as I managed to keep them pretty flat. I think wearing riding boots may have also helped? The horse I rode was fab and quite responsive to my aids because he has been so well schooled if my aids aren't spot on he is a bit slow to respond.

Much to my delight I found that when my position and aids were correct his response was amazing! Literally felt like a different horse towards the end of the lesson as I was more aware of the subtleties in the correct instruction versus my instruction. So he did understand what I was telling him initially however I learned how to ask in a more positive and constructive way which he preferred.

The squeezing on on every sit during trot wasn't discouraged either as it's not really what the horse would consider squeezing on. It is just a squeeze, which would explain why initially he was slow to move when I squeezed as there was no heel just the inside of my foot lol. I was taught to bring my knee out to push him on with my heel which had a better effect on him.

She also taught me that their horses have been schooled to halt to a light fidget on the reins and bringing your weight further back in your seat. My rather crude method of squeezing down and back on the reins whilst whoa-ing wasn't as effective as their method. After riding horses who have only just been backed for many years I think I will be working on having a more sensitive approach as these horses don't need a heavy hand.

Also the saddle was comfy!!!

 

[bassjunky]

Squeezing on every stride is just nagging - the horse learns to brace itself against this and therefore makes no difference and the horse actually becomes dead to the leg.
It probably makes you feel more secure so you don't get behind the movement.

Losing stirrups is most likely your position and stirrup length combined but without seeing you its hard to know. A lot of that depends on where the stirrup bars are positioned in relation to the deepest part of the seat.

A really good book is this one - lots of pics to help you

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enlightened...id=1413065748&sr=8-2&keywords=heather+moffett

Oh and the stirrup length... yeah I am used to riding with relatively short stirrups and use that to help with balance and keeping heels down. Instructor is going to have me do some work without stirrups next lesson so that should help a lot to get my balance right and lengthen my legs etc. Quite impressed my heels were flat most of the time so that's a good start

 

[Tiddlypom]

No riding simulator close by and given the price of a lesson on one I would rather just have a lesson on a horse even if there were one near here (nearest one is about 30/40 miles away.

I had to travel over 30 miles to my nearest riding simulator. Well worth it, in order to get my position and feel back back prior to inflicting my aids onto a real horse. Officers from the Manchester mounted police were there in the session before me, learning to refine their riding (and were very impressed with what they'd learnt ). If it's good enough for them...

 

[bassjunky]

I had to travel over 30 miles to my nearest riding simulator. Well worth it, in order to get my position and feel back back prior to inflicting my aids onto a real horse. Officers from the Manchester mounted police were there in the session before me, learning to refine their riding (and were very impressed with what they'd learnt ). If it's good enough for them...

I considered it for my partner as he has never ridden but it had a weight limit which he exceeded so that was that out the window. For myself I am hoping for better positioning and an understanding of the feedback my horse is giving me which I feel is going to be the simulators downfall as far as my needs go. Maybe something to consider in future if I can find one closer and have reliable transport. Just looked up the distance of the simulator I enquired about (was recommended on here) and its actually 78 miles away. Think I may have underestimated how far it was. Whoops! I have seen a mechanical, opposed to electrical simulator for cantering practice which looks fab. If you don't move correctly it stops! Would love a go on that if I could find one...

 

[FestiveFuzz]

In terms of keeping your heels down I've always been taught to focus on toes up instead. No idea why but it's always worked for me and puts your leg in a much more natural position than forcing your heels down.

 

[bassjunky]

In terms of keeping your heels down I've always been taught to focus on toes up instead. No idea why but it's always worked for me and puts your leg in a much more natural position than forcing your heels down.

Tbh I haven't really been told how to do it until my lesson yesterday so I just assumed that concentrating on keeping my heels down would work, which unfortunately it never does because I always totally forget after about 30 secs and dnt realise until my foot is through the stirrup! When I stressed to my instructor yesterday that it was something I was eager to improve, she told me to keep my feet flat as though I was stood on them and that seemed to do the trick for the most part. The horse had a steady trot though which helps as I lose a stirrup most when at a fast bouncy trot. Strangely it is always my outside foot first to go without fail.

Went for my first hack on my loan horse today and didn't lose a stirrup at all but we were mostly at walk so will have to see how it goes with that. It's been a bad habit of mine for over a decade so I think it is highly unlikely it has been remedied on just one lesson... I can dream though

 

[Skib]

As a rider who started riding late in life, your post rang all sorts of bells - and this thread is a pleasure, as for once we have a knowledgeable OP - already a rider rather than a vulnerable 60 year old like me. I met someone else yesterday returning to ride who had been reduced to tears by their first RS. The way adults beginning or returning to riding are treated in many riding schools leaves a lot to be desired.
First there is the horse. As one ages, it becomes harder to sit and to sit straight on a wider horse, yet many riding schools keep cobs for adult beginners. It could have been the horse was not right for you, or not until you loosen up again.
Then there is tack -The RS saddles go with the horse and are not always the right size for the student rider. I have hacked the same mare for 10 years and at one point she had a saddle that could not accommodate my seat and bruise the base of my spine.
Then there is teaching style. Of which the heels down issue is an example. Over the last 100 years there have been many changes in the way people ride. As a small child the current BHS basics will do all right. But an adult returning to riding should know that some basics have changed, and it should be explained why - If one knows the reason why we no longer grip with our knees or push our heels down and why children were once taught to do that, one can make up ones own mind how one prefers to ride - bearing in mind that it may vary according to the horse and circumstances. I once rode out with a yard manager who explained that if something didnt work for a student she would revert to old ways.
Then there is the whole question of what exactly is correct - If I go to a teacher, out of courtesy I listen and try to do as they say. But as an adult I know there is no overall gospel truth about how one rides - a classical teacher and a BHS school will teach differently. Even yesterday at the dressage convention there were differences between the top experts - As an adult rider you get to collect a repertoire of solutions and learn to apply them.
However, I know from my OH that you can go for a lesson at a good school and occasionally overdo something leading to physical pain - moderation in all things. He has fragile skin and too long without stirrups, tho good for his riding, can leave him rubbed raw. There are many work rounds too for people who cant manage to ride as one ought - If you hack in safety stirrups it isnt such a worry if your boot slips down through the stirrup when you canter on hacks. And once you stop worrying, it probably stops happening.

In your place I would look for a teacher who gives lunge lessons and who understands the variety of human body shapes and will help you to get comfortable on a horse again. Discover the type of horse, and saddle and riding position that is going to be right for you. Avoid any school that applies an overall prescription. Sort out your balance - and explore the developments that have taken place in riding since you last rode. And enjoy!

 

[Gloi]

Great post Skib. Sometimes riding teachers who are young have no understanding of how people's bodies change as they age and treat them the same as they would a youngster learning to ride, causing unnecessary pain or at the least putting them off from continuing to learn.

 

[TrasaM]

The problem with trying to keep your heel down or trying to keep your toes up is that it will result in muscle tension elsewhere in your leg and cause another problem for you. Try it whilst sitting down and try to identify which muscles are used in order to achieve it. Ifvyiur ankle remains soft and relaxed and you then push down through the whole leg then your ankle will 'give' a little and your heel will naturally move downwards into the correct position as you ride. Like your knees they are your shock absorbers. It might help to think that as you rise in trot the movement comes upwards from the foot through the leg.
If you watch beginners you will often see that they pull themselves upwards from the shoulder ( causes tension in shoulders and back and pulls the rider forwards) rather than rising from the foot upwards.
I resorted to alexander technique lessons to sort me out but also riding without stirrups helps to break the dependency on gripping with knees and drawing your leg up.

 

[bassjunky]

As tigertail has suggested I think a good book or two might be a worthwhile investment, and as xmas is approaching that would be something to go on my letter to Santa

TrasaM I am really looking forward to the lesson without stirrups as I think this will really help me improve and as you say if you force it there might be problems in other areas as a result. I am aiming for a healthy and natural position that is comfortable for myself and my horse so if I go without stirrups I will have to find my balance naturally without relying on my feet to keep me stable. I might start trying some stretching exercises to reduce tension and loosen myself up before a ride.

As a rider who started riding late in life, your post rang all sorts of bells - and this thread is a pleasure, as for once we have a knowledgeable OP - already a rider rather than a vulnerable 60 year old like me. I met someone else yesterday returning to ride who had been reduced to tears by their first RS. The way adults beginning or returning to riding are treated in many riding schools leaves a lot to be desired.
First there is the horse. As one ages, it becomes harder to sit and to sit straight on a wider horse, yet many riding schools keep cobs for adult beginners. It could have been the horse was not right for you, or not until you loosen up again.
Then there is tack -The RS saddles go with the horse and are not always the right size for the student rider. I have hacked the same mare for 10 years and at one point she had a saddle that could not accommodate my seat and bruise the base of my spine.
Then there is teaching style. Of which the heels down issue is an example. Over the last 100 years there have been many changes in the way people ride. As a small child the current BHS basics will do all right. But an adult returning to riding should know that some basics have changed, and it should be explained why - If one knows the reason why we no longer grip with our knees or push our heels down and why children were once taught to do that, one can make up ones own mind how one prefers to ride - bearing in mind that it may vary according to the horse and circumstances. I once rode out with a yard manager who explained that if something didnt work for a student she would revert to old ways.
Then there is the whole question of what exactly is correct - If I go to a teacher, out of courtesy I listen and try to do as they say. But as an adult I know there is no overall gospel truth about how one rides - a classical teacher and a BHS school will teach differently. Even yesterday at the dressage convention there were differences between the top experts - As an adult rider you get to collect a repertoire of solutions and learn to apply them.
However, I know from my OH that you can go for a lesson at a good school and occasionally overdo something leading to physical pain - moderation in all things. He has fragile skin and too long without stirrups, tho good for his riding, can leave him rubbed raw. There are many work rounds too for people who cant manage to ride as one ought - If you hack in safety stirrups it isnt such a worry if your boot slips down through the stirrup when you canter on hacks. And once you stop worrying, it probably stops happening.

In your place I would look for a teacher who gives lunge lessons and who understands the variety of human body shapes and will help you to get comfortable on a horse again. Discover the type of horse, and saddle and riding position that is going to be right for you. Avoid any school that applies an overall prescription. Sort out your balance - and explore the developments that have taken place in riding since you last rode. And enjoy!

I think the cob types are chosen due to being safe and reliable for beginners (at least in my experience the more slender types are more lively and unpredictable). They also are better for your security as when sat with your legs wider your weight will go onto your leg rather than over it if your horse makes an unexpected move.

Unfortunately for us riders the tack is designed to fit the horse, so if we don't fit the saddle then tough luck hah. There will of course be differences between schools in the quality and comfort of the saddles and how well maintained they are. The new place I tried this Friday after my poor experience the weekend prior had a comfy saddle so that was a good start. The ISH I rode at the first 'school' wasn't for me but I still feel I could have learnt something whilst being on him if only the instructor had done less leading and more instructing. He essentially told me how to stop, start and turn (YAWN!) whilst leading me round, then lunged me a while on both reins watching my rising trot and sitting trot (again not instructing me on how to improve or critiquing my technique just telling me to rise or to sit or to walk). Then we went for a hack which I didn't want to do as I had booked a private lesson, but given how little I was getting from the 'lesson' I just went along with it.

This new place I went to on Friday was a world apart. I was taught something before I even mounted (both hands on the front of the saddle when mounting) and continued to learn a whole lot throughout the lesson. My instructor was very critical of my technique ( in the best possible sense of the word) and illustrated to me the ways in which to improve the response from my horse. Again this horse was not for me but a very well schooled horse who I would happily ride again. I don't suppose you're going to improve in all areas if you ride the horses that you find easiest or most fun to ride.

The price for a half hour lesson at the new place is more than a full hour at the last place but given the instruction and facilities I feel it can easily be justified. They hold private and open dressage tests and there is a real emphasis on harmony and sensitivity towards your mount which is exactly what I want! What I loved most is that the instructor addressed my concerns about my heels and posture and made suggestions for improvement during the lesson and at the end suggested a plan of action to further improve my balance and position based on her observations. She definitely made me get my moneys worth anyway as I was knackered by the end of the session!

There were a number of more mature riders at the place when I went to observe and they seemed to get on great but none of the horses were very wide just moderately so. It depends on what you consider wide I suppose as I am used to the wider types. I am just very happy to have found a place that suits my needs and wishes for my horse