BS heights getting ridiculous!

DaisyDoll

DaisyDoll

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Is it just me or is 10cm over height becoming standard?!

I was at BS a few weeks ago with a pony who hadn't been out in a while, so was hoping to find a nice course with fillers that was up to height. Entered the 70cm and the BN (80cm for ponies) and on walking it found that bar the first 3 or 4 jumps they were all up at 80cm. I knew this because the heights were clearly marked on the sides of the wings.

I can understand the second phase being higher but not all of the jumps. I thought the point of 2 phase competition was that there was a marked difference in the 2nd part of the course, not that the entire course was built to jump off heights.

Afterwards I walked the BN course (80cm on schedule) and found that most of it was built at 90cm and a few fences of the jump off looked like they wouldn't be out of place in a 1m course. Didn't jump it in the end as didn't want to overface pony. I was told that as in the final BN goes to 1m it wa allowed for the courses to be built that height. So why wouldn't they put 80-100cm on the schedule then?!

So really my point is; why are courses being built so big nowadays? Surely it's dangerous, imagine if a younger child, used to jumping 70-80 on the unaff circuit, saw that the heights would be 70cm and 80cm in the schedule and then on arrival found them to be built so much bigger! It isn't fair on them or their pony and I think it will be painting a very negative image of BS for youngsters and their parents.

Anyone else experienced/have any thoughts on this topic?
 
I agree! Or way under height!

I was at a show about a month ago. Went to walk the BN and looked around and thought they must be running it in another arena as it was massive, went and asked. "Oh no, that's the BN"

Went back to find about 10 other people in there, who were all scratching their heads and asked me if it was the British Novice. Not one of them believed me when I said I'd just checked as some of the fences were wide, square 1.05 oxers (at least) The very smallest on the course were a good 90cm. There were lots of apprehensive gulps and headshaking :p

I understand that BN is small and therefore even if it is over height it shouldn't pose too much of a problem but a friend of mine was there the month previously and said they put the jumps DOWN from the Discovery to the 1.05 open :s

That said, the next time I was there I saw the BN and assumed it was the 80cm open and started walking (what I assumed to be the BN) the 80!!

Crofton was good this week though, a few I thought looked a little over zealous, but not ridiculously so.
 
pinktiger said:
some builders build by measure to cup, some build by measure of top pole, there is i suspect your difference!!
Click to expand...

The "universal standard" is fence heights should be built to the top of the poles - surely BS rules address this? Yes, there has to be some margin for error for different widths of poles, planks etc. but if the bottom of the cup is within the height allowance there is no guarantee the final product will be.
 
Under BSJA rules the round must have 80% at the higher end of the height for that class, if you walk the course and see it is bigger, you are within your right to tell the course builder or judge

the judge is better as they have the deciding power at the show.

I must admit I have rarely been to a show where the course is over height, most of the time it is much smaller than it should be
 
2 Units
Metric units are used throughout these rules. The limits on the height and spread of obstacles
laid down in the rules must be observed with the greatest care. However, if it should happen that
a maximum dimension has been marginally exceeded as a result of the material used for
construction and/or by the position of the obstacle on the ground, the maximum dimensions
laid down will not be considered as having been exceeded, but the permitted tolerance is 5cms
maximum in the ring or the practice area.
134 Maximum Heights in the First Round
1 In Sections 3 and 4, 80% of every course must be built to the upper height limit.
2 The obstacles in preliminary competitions which qualify for a final competition at the same
show may be built to heights determined by the prize money for the final.
3 In Top Score or Accumulator competitions the height of the Joker may exceed the appropriate
height in the table by l5 cms (but see Rule 135.4).
4 Obstacles should be set at heights lower than maximum if the state of the ground warrants it.
Click to expand...

straight out the BS rulebook
 
don't always believe the heights on wings! some makes show where the cup should be set to in order to be overall at a set height (and as you 'should' be using the same manufacturers poles/planks it works) whereas others show the height the top of the pole needs to be at. Also if the wings have been 'dug in' a bit the wing measurements could be wrong. Only way to accurately measure is with a measuring stick!

I very rarely see overheight courses other than at open championship level (i remember the open winter 1m25 champs where only the first 1 or 2 fences were under 1m30!), normally they are under height. Some builders will build up to height and square and these are often to courses that seem over height especially if the surface is a bit deep.

If you genuinely believe a course is overheight go speak to judge/coursebuilder and if necessary ask them to measure the fences again infront of you.
 
Agree with Santa. I bet if you get a measuring stick out, they will be spot on. Also, the comment about the fences in the disco being put down for the 1.05 could well be true... remember disco JO is 1.10, so it should be going down for the 1.05 ;)
 
I agree! I entered a BS class for the first time a few weeks ago at 70 & 80 cm as I usually do 80 & 90cm + at unaffilliated shows but found the BS to be way bigger! The outdoor warm up was really deep and boggy too, has put me off BS, will stick to unafflilliated from now on!
 
I jump at 1.10m level, Open classes only as my horse is out of NC, and I can safely say that 1.05m and 1.10m Opens are pretty much always 5-10cm over height, apart from the odd fence. The classes where they combine NC/1.10m Open tend to be more to the correct height, but the Open classes... no way.
 
KatB said:
Also, the comment about the fences in the disco being put down for the 1.05 could well be true... remember disco JO is 1.10, so it should be going down for the 1.05 ;)
Click to expand...


Well I did think that too, but the way it was said made it seem as though he meant first round fences not JO. (Otherwise, not sure why he would have commented :p)

Off to Merrist Wood on Saturday, not been there in yonks. Will see what size those look :D
 
TarrSteps said:
The "universal standard" is fence heights should be built to the top of the poles - surely BS rules address this? Yes, there has to be some margin for error for different widths of poles, planks etc. but if the bottom of the cup is within the height allowance there is no guarantee the final product will be.
Click to expand...



that was the ans i got when i plucked up the courage to ask a notoriously big building course builder!! He also said they were able to build with a 5cm diff!!!!>?????
 
I went to a BS show the other day with a 4yo did the clear round and BN - had done the unaffiliated the weekend before so horse could appreciate jumping indoors. BN much bigger than expected having watched one elsewhere a few weeks before to gauge height, the horse jumped DC, but I was a little concerned at the time that I was overphasing him as there were some quite big square oxers in it. I was told at the time by someone walking the course with me that the particular course builder, builds big (I obviously must have looked a little worried). I guess it is the luck of the draw because the BN track a few weeks before at a different venue was small compared to what I jumped, hence why I thought id take the horse in the first place! :)

Saying that I had gone to an unaffiliated (with Trailblazers Q's) with this horse to use as a first show to jump the clear round and possibly the first class at 60cm. Even at this the builder had totally missed the point of a clear round and had put a over height oxer with the scariest fillers he obviously could find in as the first fence with the rest either way over height or tiny small made no sense. There were a few people who had brought baby horses to do the clear round and the course builder had completely missed the point.

I am doing another BN this weekend at a different venue so it will be interesting to compare.
 
I think the problem is these days that they have lowered the entry level so much now that you are getting people coming from unaffiliated where the courses are often variable in size and quality and very often underheight, and expecting it to be the same at BS. You really can't compare unaffiliated and affiliated courses....they are miles apart even at the lowest levels. Add to that the confusion that many will find themselves faced with the first time they jump a 2-phase class, and that the jump-off course pretty much always goes up two holes instead of just the one that is often the case unaffiliated...and all of a sudden you start to see the problem.

In the last 5 years or so that i have been back jumping BS(JA) i can honestly say that i have probably only twice seen a course a course built overheight...and i think on both those occasions there were extenuating circumstances. One was a 1.20m Amateur Second Round which was more like a 1.30m in the first round, and the other was a Foxhunter / 1.20m Open built in the main ring at a county showground...neither your 'normal' sort of class.

Yes, some coursebuilders do build bigger than others....but often as not it is an optical illusion that can make a fence look bigger. You also need to remember that a coursebuilder has 5cms discretion (the width of a pole) so he *could* in theory have a BN jump-off at anything up to 1.05m if he wished ;)
 
I have found that most course builders use there discretion,certainly at Golden Cross,if you have a huge class you might find courses more technical with sqare oxers with a bit more width but most decent course builders are very user friendly in novice classes . A decent one will always have first fence towards home and not on a related distance for BN/Disc and should always take into account the ground,size of arena etc and how the courses are riding.I have found that most of the wings with heights on them are inaccurate and the measuring stick never lies.Some venues often build under hight on regular occasions but none that I know in the south east build to big. On the whole most CB like a result on jumping ability,not who can go flat out against the clock,they are also dissapointed if nobody goes clear and equally so if everybody jumps clear.
 
JessandCharlie said:
Oh.
I was hoping for a challenge :p Will serve me right for not reading it properly won't it :D
Click to expand...

i lie! its an AM show with the 1st class at 80cm so should be a normal height. the intro show the other week was embarasing, and I appreciate the intro shows! eg they had ascending oxers and cross poles as the front of oxers..
CRINGE
 
Eh? Really? That is introducing the intro isn't it? I too appreciate them, and think it's nice that everyone can give it a go. Glad it should be up to height though :D
 
Recently competed in three BN, first one was two phase with only six jumps in first round so not very good value for money and meaty fences so not many clears, 2nd one 11 fences in first round, very technical and up to height out of 25+ starters only one double clear and last one flowing good track 22 clears out of 55 starters with happy competitors and a fair competition, it is entirely up to the course builder on the day, their is no consistency and in novice competitions there should be, we pay alot of money not only to compete but also in membership fees so fair, flowing tracks SHOULD be a priority!!
 
Apparently, course builders are allowed to vary fence height (up to a point) and line difficulty depending on the competitors - like one of my local venues under-builds because a lot of people who keep their horses there on livery compete, but are novicey, but then I've heard that at a different venue where it's not uncommon for 50 or more competitors to be in a class, overbuilding is common to whittle down the competition. I went to a comp recently to do a 1.15m, but because not enough of the competitors would get round, it was lowered to 1.05m..

Basically, if you think it's unreasonable, complain to the judge.
 
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