BSJA question

[marion95]

Hello.

Went to my first BSJA comp yesterday on a ticket. Thought I was doing the British Novice, but I never actually saw the schedule - was first class. Thing is, the jumps are supposed to be 90cms max first round right? But some of these were 1.0m - there were height markings on the wings.

So is it 90cms from where the cup goes or the top of the pole height?

Seemed very big to me and wide too - I have done up to 3ft 3ins unaffiliated and these seemed bigger and more scary!

Please don't tell me to read my rule book - I don't have one, was only on a ticket!!

 

[Thistle]

often find cup at 90 then pole on top.

 

[dieseldog]

It should be to the top of the pole but course builders are allowed a bit of lee way due to the ground. Also not sure how accruate those jump 4 joy wings are.

BSJA is also wider than unaff - thats normal.

How did you get on?

My sister entered her first 1.25 yesterday and the first fence was 1.25 and that was it. The double was 1.40 - which the course builder did agree to put down but the rest of the course was 1.35. He said if you want to jump 1.25 you should jump a proper one otherwise admit that your horse is only capable of doing fox's??? to which she said if I wanted to jump 1.35 I would have entered that class and not the 1.25

 

[dieseldog]

You were at the same show I'm guessing.

 

[dixie]

Not sure about the height question as I thought the top of pole should be on the 90cm mark on the wings but could be wrong.

However, you will find affiliated bigger than unaffiliated as they tend to be wider and the parallels more square.

Also, probably best to check the schedule just in case you jumped a Discovery class !!

 

[marion95]

Fell off at the 5th fence! Was gutted 'cos my horse has been jumping so beautifully all summer, she hardly ever stops and when she does it's a spooky kind of hover (which she generally then jumps from a standstill). This was a very last minute screech to a halt - wrong striding. Was her first indoor jumping though, and first BSJA, so guess it was a bit scary.

Think I'll take her to an unaffiliated indoor next time and do something a bit smaller before I try again.

She was jumping so massive over everything it was hilarious - some woman came up to me at the end and asked to buy her 'cos she 'had such an amazing jump on her'. So should be chuffed about that I suppose (although I'm never selling her)!

 

[Rambo]

This is an interesting post...

The max height of the fence *should* be taken as the top of the pole, although I too have witnessed cases where the cups are placed at the height, then the pole added to it. Builders can also play games on surfaces as the wings will often sit on top of the surface, but as horses jump, a dip can start to appear in front of the fences adding a good few cms to the height. Another good weaze is the 2-phase format, where a course can be made to *look* a lot bigger simply by building the jump off section big. Feel free to correct me but I believe there is no maximum increase that a course builder is allowed to use in a jump-off, although 10cms is often used

I have certainly seen a 1m 2-phase jump-off have a fence or more at 1.15m, and a 1.10m 2-phase with fences at 1.25m / 1.30m

You do tend to learn quite quickly which venues, and which course builders have a tendency to build big, but also don't forget that height isn't everything...rideability is often just as important, and a big track physically, may well ride a lot better than a smaller technical track

 

[tigers_eye]

I remember at one indoor venue the course builder had a measuring stick with a plastic circle on the bottom of it, about 20cms in diameter, so that it rested on the sand rather than sinking into it. Guess that makes for bigger fences though! I too am suspicious of the jump for joy height makers, though i guess they weren't using stands like that for bsja...

 

[dieseldog]

If you are going to affliate round here try Rockhampton, they always build nice friendly courses with skinny spreads - but the arena is quite small and the warm up a bit strange.

The Hand have a lot of different course builders there - but since its been sold they may stick to a few, so you can never really tell what it is going to be like until you get there. Raf who was building yesterday is usually pretty normal.

 

[flyingfeet]

The course builders seem to be making a mockery of the class - if I enter a 1.25 I expect that to be the maximum height until the jump off.

 

[KarenX]

I would say that venues and coursebuilders do vary greatly. A 1.20 could be a 1.30 etc depending on these factors..

Good luck with your BSJA career and have fun. Your horse sounds lovely btw.

Karen

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
You do tend to learn quite quickly which venues, and which course builders have a tendency to build big, but also don't forget that height isn't everything...rideability is often just as important, and a big track physically, may well ride a lot better than a smaller technical track

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with that, jumped a friend's horse on a ticket last week and although the heights were bigger, this didnt bother me, but the double caused every longer striding horse to shorten dramatically, hell I was almost bounced off at the 2nd part!

 

[BBs]

This isnt helping guys!
I am planning to go BSJA (jump in the Disco) on sunday at Addington, now us eventers have to jump 1m-1.05m however, Im visualising a class thats gonna be around 1.15m atm!

Please dont scare me

 

[KarenX]

You might get lucky .. you never know, they might build on the small side!

Good luck - please let us know how you get on. A horse that we have just sold is jumping at Addington this weekend too!

Karen

 

[tigers_eye]

I suggest not walking the course. Alternatively I can blindfold you and just give Winston instructions....

FFS you've been round Novice BE courses, you'll be fine!

Am thinking I might just do the 85 then the BN...

 

[marion95]

Oh no! Don't meant to scare you. Just be prepared for it to be big and scary! I have been jumping what I thought was the same height all season unaffiliated, but somehow it was very different. If you're used to affiliated eventing though, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Good luck.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been jumping what I thought was the same height all season unaffiliated, but somehow it was very different.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the single biggest difference tbh. You can't compare unaffiliated with affiliated as it's the amount, and solidity of fillers, and the fact that pretty much every fence will be up to height / spread, whereas unaffiliated you will often only see a few fences at the max height, and none with any real spread. You soon get used to it though

 

[Peanot]

I have a friend at my yard, whose husband is a course builder, (he was building at HOYS every day and night) and he has admitted that it depends on the height of the next class on how big the JO is going to be. If for instance, it is the Discovery and the JO is supposed to be 1m10, then if the next class is 1m20, then the JO will be 1m20 to save altering the fences again.
I was at Weston Lawns a couple of months ago and another friend was jumping in the back grass arena and she jumped clear in the Discovery. When we walked the course, there were 3 fences that were pretty big and on measuring them, they were 1m20. I was glad that I wasn`t competing. I am comfortably jumping 3`6" at home, but I wouldn`t like to jump the Newcomers yet. But taking the heights into consideration, Disco is ok even if there is a couple of 1m10 in them.

But saying that, in the Summer, I went to a local show and jumped in the 3ft class and they got the class mixed up with the next, the next being the 3`6". I was one of 5 to jump off. The JO was measured, 3 fences were 3`9" and we won the class and the day cup with the only clear in the JO.

That was outside tho.

 

[BBs]

Yeah thanks Karen

I think tbh I am going to be more scared of YO who is coming to help me than the fences themselves lol

Oo PM the horses name I will look out for you

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest not walking the course. Alternatively I can blindfold you and just give Winston instructions....

FFS you've been round Novice BE courses, you'll be fine!

Am thinking I might just do the 85 then the BN...

[/ QUOTE ]

YO will not allow me NOT to walk the course lol

HAHA I shall put springs on winstons feet

plus with being 1/2 stone lighter he should be able to get into the air more

However, if its a P. Ashworth course Im plugging for the 85cm lol

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have been jumping what I thought was the same height all season unaffiliated, but somehow it was very different.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the single biggest difference tbh. You can't compare unaffiliated with affiliated as it's the amount, and solidity of fillers, and the fact that pretty much every fence will be up to height / spread, whereas unaffiliated you will often only see a few fences at the max height, and none with any real spread. You soon get used to it though <img src="http://horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep quite agree, eventing SJing is on par with BSJA so I know what to expect roughly.

The width of the fences is the biggest difference imo compaired to Unaffiliated. The good thing is that they are usually built for horses rather than ponies.

 

[SillyMare]

I hate walking SJ courses - the fences always look HUGE!!

They never look so bad when I have just watched a couple of horses go round and haven't stood next to any of the fences - that means I am more confident when I go in and ride better!!

Walking courses messes me up!!

Having said that I am just a wimp of an eventer - don't know how you even CONSIDER going into a course of jumps at 1m25 let alone 1m35!!

 

[Weezy]

I seldom walk courses under 1-20 unless there are some turns I cant work out from the course plan and then I do - see fences from horseback is a FAR better option IMO - had some scary course walks!

Anyway, back to the point, if I am jumping a 1m course I expect none of the fences in the 1st round to exceed that, simple as, same at every height

Oh and BBs - I LOVE Phils courses, as I find you can ride really positively around them - but watch the turns at Addington, he does some wicked turn backs in the JOs (especially the 2 phase!)

 

[susan_w]

Vic you absolutely should walk the course. You should be really focused and just walk the course as if you were riding, then make sure all the striding is what you would expect - this helps you work out if you need to lengthen or shorten between the related distances/doubles/combinations etc. Try to learn the jump off before you go in as well, then you can walk this too - especially if they introduce new fences into the jump off. After you've walked the course, stand in the middle just remind yourself where you are going.

Still watch a couple go, as it just puts it straight in your head.

And most importantly, enjoy it.

Good luck

 

[BBs]

Thanks Susan, yes I will walk the course

YO wouldnt let me go round having NOT walked the course.
She also has this habit of making you go through the course before you go in (striding and what to do around the corners etc). Shes very thorough lol

At the end of the day, if Im gonna do this, Im gonna do this properly

Ooo all excited now, forms and passport being sent off tomorrow am, and the BSJA office have said to telephone through on friday afternoon for reg number etc so that i can compete on sunday

Really excited now, gonna give the boy a jump on Wednesday and then again on Saturday just to get my eye in.

God, BBs is excited about SJing lol

Tigers_Eye see you there

 

[Rambo]

Absolutely agree

Always walk the course...and the JO too especially if it's a 2-phase, or there are new fences introduced for the JO. It costs nothing to walk the course, it could cost you your diesel money home NOT to !

 

[keysoe]

Dont forget that the second phase of a 2 phase competition will be +10 cms.

If you believe that a fence is overheight, you are perfectly entitled to ask the course builder (politely) to check the height

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont forget that the second phase of a 2 phase competition will be +10 cms.

If you believe that a fence is overheight, you are perfectly entitled to ask the course builder (politely) to check the height

[/ QUOTE ]

Keysoe. You may know the answer to this. Is the +10cms for the JO a written down rule, or just a guide ? I wasn't aware that there was any maximum increase for JO's...

 

[flower]

There is something in the rule book about it being up to 10 cms bigger in the jump off. Not sure if that is a hard and fast rule though.

I don't see how these places get away with having the courses as massively overheight as some people seem to think they are (I may have read it incorrectly, but a Discovery somewhere being 1.20?!)

I also think it says that there can be a variant due to ground conditions but I'd have thought that was allowing them to build slightly smaller.

I've jumped BSJA at a lot of show centres in the South East of the country and haven't come across any that build massively overheight. I think if you're used to unaffiliated the width and general build of an affiliated course (plus the fact there's probably more fences in it) might make it seem bigger in comparison.

 

[Rambo]

Hmmmm...i've jumped BSJA for 25 years so i'm no 'startled rabbit', and also compete in the South East. I have definitely seen Disco JO's at 1.15m, and Newcomers/1.10m Open JO's at 1.25m+

I'm not saying it happens all the time, or always at the same venue, but it does happen