BSJA today - arrghh!!! Tea, sympathy & advice, please...

catembi

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So the saga continues...

Adrian is a 5 yo ISH who does BD & BSJA. He is very laid back & easy going at home & gets wildly excited at shows, despite the fact that we're usually doing something every weekend. He has now won £67 BSJA, but at shows he bucks in the warmup, then takes hold & runs off every time he's pointed at a jump.

So today we went to Manor Farm & instead of our usual myler french link, we were using a tom thumb with rollers on it borrowed from my sj coach. I'd tried it in my last lesson & it gave me just enough whoa to have some control.

Started warming up & for once A couldn't take hold & run off, which infuriated him so he was bucking 4 x more than usual. He jumped the warm up jumps quite nicely & they were pretty big. Went into the British Novice & it was soooo weird having some control! Usually I get tanked off with & have to try & see a 'forward' stride. I tried to check him back in between jumps, then sit still & leave him alone on the approach. Had 3 down because it was strange for both of us jumping at sj speed instead of xc speed. (Altho he's okay in lessons.)

Decided to go in the 95 cm to have more practise at being in control. The first 2 were uprights on the long side at max height, so I checked him back on the short side, then left him alone & he jumped them really nicely. Then had to go round the short side & across the next long diag to no 3. He bucked about 4 strides out & had his head right in the air & to one side, & he just couldn't jump like that. I stayed calm & rode a smooth curve back round to it, being v careful not to hang onto him, but altho I was kicking like mad (& had my spurs on) & smacked him, he absolutely wouldn't go forward & kind of ground to a halt. Even if it had been 2 wings without anything between them, I'd have had the same prob as he was so upset about his mouth that he just wouldn't go fwd. So we were eliminated.
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I had the same prob when I tried a kimblewick - I could slow down but he wouldn't jump in it. His teeth were done yest - the EDT said that they weren't bad at all, & now they're spot on. He's in a comfort bridle & a properly fitted WOW.

So now what?? He's v fwd going in the Myler but I totally can't stop or slow down, & anything I can hold him in, he won't jump in. He also really hates having his mouth strapped closed so I've abandoned his flash as it aggravated him. V v bored with BN, but we need to sort out our issues before we move onwards.

TBH, I'm feeling despondent about competing in general. We've spent £££££ over the past couple of years on a house with land, lorry, manege, Adrian (and Cat before him), WOW, do 2 sj & 2 dr lessons a month with v good trainers... & I'm STILL cr*p.
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I try soooo hard, but no matter what I do, I can't seem to do more than bump along the bottom of BSJA & score 58 to 61% BD. It was the same with Cat too - loads of lessons etc, but we always got 58 to 61% BD, prob averaging 59.something so we rarely got a point & when he got ill, we were having 4 fault-itis at NC & I'd done one 1 m 15 by accident cos o/h wouldn't get up so we missed NC.

So I wonder if I have just reached my limit as a rider. V v fed up with myself today.
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Sorry if I sound pathetic, but this has been concerning me for a while.
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Hugs to you - a month ago I was on the point of giving up, so I feel your pain.

Have you tried talking to Heather at the Neue Schule bit place? She runs a super (free!) bitting helpline and is extremely knowledgeable and not at all pushy. Also, have you thought about trying a Kineton noseband with the Myler bit? That might help as it doesn't act on the mouth.

I reckon it takes about 2 years to really gel with a horse, so you've got plenty of time. It's only this year I've really felt I gel with B and ride him anywhere near well enough, and I still don't progress as quickly as I'd like.
 
((hugs)) to you for feeling Cr@p
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I felt like giving up last weekend -I think it's just something we all go through with our horses
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I don't have any advice i'm afraid but just wanted to say hang in there because it sounds like you are doing all the right things.
I'm presuming his bucking is definitely exuberance and not back/saddle/teeth related
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Oh dear poor you and Adrian

My friend's horse did that when she put him in a pelham for the same reason you tried the stronger bit, he hated it a used to go up and down in a tantrum!!

Have you thought about trying the myler combination bit with the same mouth piece as you have usually?

My horse really pulls in stronger bits, (But I need them as I have no brakes in a snaffle!!) and shakes his head to try to get the reins out of your hands... lovely chap that he is! I have used the myler combination on him for XC and SJ, he's too strong XC for me to carry on using it but even though I haven't got enough brakes he obviously preferred the action as i didn't get any of the head shaking.
I use a waterford on him for XC now but the time I tried to SJ in it he had a right tantrum, doing what yours did, they are sensitive things!!

Good luck!!
 
Have you tried a hackamore? I've heard they can work wonders with horses with mouth issues - might give you control without him having an excuse to have a strop about his mouth? If you've hit a brick wall it might be worth a try. I think you can hire them from shop4bits...
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I'm sorry to hear that. Horses do cause us headaches. Having a few problems with mine at the mo. He was jumping 1.05 as he is nearly out of BN, then hit a fence quite hard, loss his confidence and now struggling to get him round a BN for the last few months.
All i can say is keep on pluging on, you'll see light at the end on the tunnel and then you'll forget all the problems you had with him. His only 5, so you have plenty of time.
 
Oh Im so sorry you had a bit of a rubbish day
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Cant offer much in terms off biting - *offers tea instead*

Is he any different competing outdoors to indoors? Manor farm have a course hire coming up, you could do that - as he'd be at the venue, with all the jumps like a show. But theres no pressure cause its just schooling?

Take that back - course hire isnt til 20th april, but if you can go midweek Im pretty sure you can hire the arena then xx
 
can i send you a (((((((((((huge hug)))))))))


then get youe'r head out of you're ars* in the nicest way possilbe..

You are not a cr*p or bad rider CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......

NOW.........
has any of your trainers seen him at shows??? if so what are what their views??, if not why not pay for them to see you at show and advise you???

have you put pro rider on board?

as he's 5 is he due a brake to sort this head???

sorry to be bunt at start and now tea and sympathy on it's way
 
Oh that so sounds like my horse. No, it's definitely not you, I feel like giving up (in fact have cheated and put teenage daughter on instead cos my back can't take it anymore). When HH did a poll a few weeks ago asking how many bits had people tried, I ticked the 11 plus box!

Mine is 10 now, in a mild bit he leans, tanks, pulls, argues, if I try something stronger he grinds to a halt or throws his head about so badly I can't see the fence let alone a stride. I have had wolf teeth out, endless lessons on the flat, lessons with very good local trainer (who has christened my horse The Thug...)

But... I have just bought a Myler pelham on eBay and it is the best bit yet for mine. Found a kimblewick way too much, even been riding in a peewee but although I can stop him in that daughter can't. I am using roundings so not that much poll pressure, it is jointed with a barrel bit in the middle (not describing it very well but you might know what I mean if you use mylers). He is almost a pleasure to ride at the moment, seems to like it. Would happily lend you it if you are nearby?!
 
Poor you, you don't deserve this
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. Think it would be a good idea to contact Heather and get some advice.
Another thing to consider (and pls don't shoot me down for this
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) are you sure he's happy in the WOW, have you tried a diff saddle to see if there's a difference in his behaviour? Not all horses like the WOW's and airbags must feel diff to normal flocking? There have been a few ppl on here that have tried them and sent them back. May be worth a go??
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Hope you get sorted soon
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I am sure you are not a rubbish rider, you sound very competent to me, even to keep sitting the bucks.

Whilst my horse was nowhere near as bad as yours, I have to say on bad days I wouldn't jump in the warm up as he would charge non stop at them and helicopter them when I got there. I tried many bits but ended up in a soft bit, nathe straight bar or a french link, and let him get on with it. If I tried brakes he just wouldn't jump. When I resorted to a soft bit and let him go in his own rythmn he settled and would jump lovely rounds, I just couldn't take a pull very often.

I know its not much help, but its worth a thought.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Why not go cross country, he won't have time to buck then and you can kick instead of pulling !!
 
I have the same problem dont worry !! I have actually got a friend of mine who is more experienced and stronger than me to jump him round to give him confidence - he is now going fab and got his confidence back and going well !! hopefully i can start taking him out again soon 1
 
Sorry to hear you are at your wits end - plenty of us have been there
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You say you always get low marks in your dressage, what sort of comments do you get? I would suspect the same issues apply to when you're jumping but the issues are masked by his running at fences or refusing to go forward when there is too much pressure (in his mind) in his mouth. I wouldn't think the problem is 'just' the bit in his mouth, this is a symptom of what is going on else where.

What is he like over canter poles? Have you free schooled him down a grid? Does he run at his fences then?

I very much doubt it is you but his general way of going so once you've wriggled that out you will be away again, the height of the fences isn't the problem so you will in time rocket up the grades, keep your chin up
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Don't beat yourself up. It won't be you..... honest! When things seem to be going backwards riders try harder & sometimes try too hard & everything gets on top & they end up feeling like you do today.

My daughter had the same problem with her horse when she first got him. He was far too fast, wasn't listening, charging at fences & charging away. We realised something had to be done because it was getting dangerous.

Basically we stopped jumping all together & engaged a really good flatwork trainer & for the next 6-9 months all we did was flatwork. This took some doing (boring)....but it was essential. After doing all that flat work he started to carry himself well. He was better balanced, he was steadier, his transitions both up & down were smooth, He no longer launched himself into canter.

He entered some local dressage competitions & eventually was scoring 68-70% so we were pleased. We affiliated him to BSJA 12 months ago & he has his double clears in BN & Discovery & is jumping Newcomers & soon will be doing Fox. He's even qualified for Scope. This has been a great turn around & if we can do it then you certainly can. It takes dedication & resolve to do it but it is achievable....go for it
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Thank you everyone - lots of ideas to try!
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At least it doesn't sound as if I'm the only one to have these probs. It sounds as if a few of us are having 'issues'... How come none of you are at the same shows as me?? It would be nice not to be the only one charging around bucking!!

It has just occurred to me that his myler has got slots in it, altho I just use it as a snaffle. My dr trainer suggested using the slots for jumping & I totally forgot. Maybe I'll try that next, & then try a myler combination with the same mouthpiece, & then a kineton.

I think you're right that the sj probs are replicated in the dr to some extent. I.e. lack of submission. Our usual comments are not working thru from behind / not fwd enough, but it's either that or tug of war... On Sun he did what I thought was a really nice test - didn't end up in gallop at all (unusual) no bucking (v unusual) canter trans were good, I could get some bend, last halt was spectacular for him (often I *can't* stop & we nearly end up on the judge's bonnet) & I was hoping for high 60's so was v disappointed with 60.4. Then 2 weeks previously we did dr with loads of bucking & galloping etc & I got 61.5. ????
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I know he *can* do it - in a recent jumping lesson we were doing grids & the last jump was a // at 1 m 20 (
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good job I didn't know that til after we'd done it
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) & he made nothing of it at all. He is just a total t*t at shows.
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Maybe it's just the Terrible Fives & we will come thru it?? He is naturally quite...er...opinionated & throws a strop if he can't have his own way.

Xc - I'm 1/2 tempted but I think that if we tried it, there would be only 1 survivor & it wouldn't be me!! I suspect that he'd love it as he's quite bold & not at all spooky. Plus he loves charging about!
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WOW - he goes far better in it than in Cat's saddles, which I had reflocked to fit him. I know that some people don't get on with them tho.

Trainers haven't seen him at shows but I've described what he does, & when he's excited in lessons, he will show similar behaviour so they know what he's like.

Thank you Llewelyn for the bit offer - v kind.

Thanks for sharing all your tales of woe & tips - I feel a bit less like putting my head in the oven now!!
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I was at Lordsbridge a few weeks ago, do you go there? Was doing senior trailblazers, mine was the one tanking off after the practice fence with teenager close to tears on board...I was trying to watch her jump another horse through the doors whilst holding my horse, and the great numpty was being a..y and managed to headbutt some poor child. I was so embarassed I hid in the outdoor bit for ages. I think no-one else particularly notices other people having problems, they are far too busy trying to cope with their own tbh!
 
Catembi, I am going to say something that I have wanted to say for a while now, but haven't, though now I think the time has come...

I know you have emotional attachment to Adrian because of Cat, but maybe he just isn't the one for you? You want to be out having fun and you just are not getting that with Adrian. Sure, it may come in time, but maybe, just maybe, now is the time to go sit on some other horses to see whether you can get the *yay* factor back on something else?

Hope I haven't peed you off by saying that, but you are getting more and more despondent and I hate hearing you so down about it all x
 
Weezy - I totally see where you're coming from.

I think that maybe I'm comparing Adrian now at the age of 5 to Cat at the age of 11. I'd had Cat 4 1/2 years & I think I'm forgetting all the stuff we worked thru to get to where we were. I do rem jumping a 1 m 05 from a flat out gallop outside on grass & putting 1 stride in a 2 stride double...
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Obviously if I could have Cat back again, I would, but if I had the 2 to choose between at a dealer's yard with no previous history, I'd choose A every time. He is far less complicated & not at all spooky - Cat's biggest fault was being spooky & I did end up on my a**e in the warmup once
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cos he'd shied at his shadow & again in the indoor school cos he shied at the rolley doors...
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And this was at Lordsbridge where he did lessons every month...
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A is far safer, far less unpredictable, his flatwork is already better & (believe it or not) he is actually MORE sensible jumping!!
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I spent ages unaff with Cat because he was **insane** jumping. A's full brother ret'd after the water tray in the Hickstead derby last year & his 1/2 bro came 2nd, so I'm hoping it will click if we stick at it.

I think I spent 3 years working out how to ride Cat, a year enjoying him & 6 months nursing him, so now that I've been there/done that once (Cat intro'd me to aff dr & sj) we should get there a bit quicker the 2nd time around... & honestly Adrian is 100 times easier!! I just need to find his buttons.
 
I would join a RC and go to loads of group lessons. I had a horse that was an absolute nightmare in the warm up, took him to about 3 lessons and he behaved from then on - he got sold as he couldn't actually jump, but at least he didn't kill me in the warm up.
 
Thankies DD - I did see on the notice board at Manor Farm that they're doing group lessons soon with 2 different (v well known) sj trainers & I was thinking about it, but then I decided against it in case he went berserk.

Maybe I should bite the bullet? It's only 1/2 hour away, so it would be v handy if he learnt to behave there as I will be competing there a lot.
 
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