BSJA - whoops! Advice, encouragement or sympathy??

catembi

catembi

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Our dressage has been coming together lately, & I feel that the jumping has been lagging behind, so today we went to Manor Farm with trainer in tow to see why exactly it is that I'm so cr*p at jumping.

We warmed up for the BN with the trainer's help, popped a few jumps & she said there was absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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So we went to do our round... nice jump over no 1, a spread, jumped no 2 an upright nicely, no 3 was an oxer & we gave it some room, bit onward bound to 4, an upright, cos I'd nearly got jumped out of the saddle, but then... line of related distance to double, or the other way round. We came around the corner on a dodgy stride, but I decided to go off a long one, put my leg on &... nothing. No engine. Kind of scrambled over, totally wrong to the next jump & slithered to a stop. Had another go & jumped it, but not very willingly. Big jump over 7, quite onward bound over 8.

I went to find my trainer & we both agreed that he'd started boldly but had decided to stop trying. Great relief that I'm not 100% to blame! She said we should go home, but as my aunt had come from Wanstead to watch, I felt duty bound to do the 95 cm.

1 & 2 were the same, & we jumped them the same. 3 & 4 were 8 & 9 from the previous round. Jumped 3 nicely but he wasn't prepared to take on 4, & the more I pushed, the more he backed off. Had another go, he flew over with a good smack, then it was 'the line' again. And the same thing happened. No engine, & the more I pushed, the more he backed off.
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So elim for 2nd stop.

Bl**dy horse. The thing is, he is quite a madam & doesn't like being told what to do & he's also naturally idle. If he was a 'normal' horse, I could give him a dig with the spurs or a smack & he'd go forward. As he's an awkward so & so, if I spur him, he tends to go up instead of forward (think v short bouncy canter not going anywhere) & if I whack him, he bucks & lands either flat footed or disunited.

He has a wow that's regularly refitted & a good chiro who says his back is not a prob. He's not lame or sick & sorry in any way. He is a tricky horse who doesn't appreciate being told what to do. He will take a hint or suggestion, but if I say, 'Do this...now!' as you have to on your way to a jump, he will say, 'No, F off'. We've tried tinkering with his food & he's just as lazy but bucks more.
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I'm not explaining this very well, but it's not the jumps that are the issue. It's the fact that he won't go forward when told & prefers to get huffy instead of getting on with it.

It's frustrating as he can do it & he actually does like his jumping, but he gets soooo cross if I get after him. But if I *don't* get after him, he would grind to a halt & then look for something to eat...

We are hiring a course soon with my trainer to see if we can sort him, but in the meantime, ideas, suggestions, sympathy?? Is anyone else's horse a talented but idle madam??? Or is he overdue a trip to the Pedigree Chum factory??
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Your post sound like my last effort BSJA with my mare. She too loves jumping and when shes on form Wow! If she has switched off however shes the same, she will NOT move off my leg and like yours will just get all bouncy and upset but still be behind the bridle.. this makes it hard to get the stride right, she'll try and clamber over it if shes in a generous mood, if not then she'll stop and lose all her confidence.
I think its a confidence issue with my horse as she does tend to give the fences waaaaaaaay to much air, like she thinks she cant get over them?! If I try and ride more positively she interprets it as panick and that doesnt work. Ive lost confidence now as well so were pretty much up s*** creek without a paddle and im having to go right back to the beginning with grids etc
My last horse could occasionally put in the odd dirty stop but he was much more straightforward, if you told him to go he would go end of story. To cut a long story short ive brought a new horse that seems much more striaghtforward to try and get some confidence back, my mare has always been a bit tricky and her issue has always been moving forward into the bridle. It took me 6 months before I could ride her in a circle and the first time after she was broken that I tried to trot her in the school she just bounced up and down on the spot! She reverts to that when shes nervous which isnt really ideal for a jumping horse!

Have you thought about taking your horse hunting? That could help perk him up and get him moving forward? Im going to try that too
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Sorry ive massively waffled on!
 
Thank you firewell - at least I'm not the only one! Your horse looks fab in your sig.

I tried hunting him once in November. He was v excited for about 15 mins, & then bored. The person who was looking after me had to go back after an hour as her horse was wound up by all the hanging around - it was v stop-start. Adrian hacked back to the lorry on the buckle with the other horse jogging about & then hacked home in his usual idle fashion as the lorry wouldn't start.

He is confident & doesn't give a cr*p about having jumps down. He will quite happily make a complete pig's ear of one & then carry on as if nothing's happened. He is tricky as he will switch from forward to idle between one jump & the next whereas the late Catembi would always go bananas & pull my arms out!

I was thinking about trying some xc training but I'm a bit wet outside of an arena, & I can't be bothered with studs.
 
My pony is similar, except on the flat.
Jumping, she'll go forwards no problem whatsoever the majority of the time but on the flat shes a cow.

We worked on this forward business in my last lesson, and basically when she doesnt fancy going off my leg she just gathers up and bounces on the spot behind the bridle or sits there swishing her tail kicking out at my leg and eventually chucking in a buck to say F off. All I do is sit there, keeping the leg on firmly and allowing her to move forward with my hand and wait, and wait and wait.. after a lap or so of the school she clicks on and once she moves off my leg, I get off her back. Could you apply this to jumping some how? Maybe put some poles out and concentrate on moving him forward to it, sitting and keeping the leg on until he does click on to it and moves forward or something?

Eventually he should get the idea that if he just does it first time instead of pissing about having an arsey strop its much easier and simpler for him.
 
Blimey he must be laid back if he doesnt even find hunting exciting! It sounds like its his way of being naughty, def try what HayleyUK suggested. Maybe try some lessons from a different trainer? They may have a fresh idea.
At least you know its not you! If hes consistently like this and nothing you do makes him better I would prob give him 6 months to improve, if he doesnt id maybe find him a less pressured loan home or something where he can hack out on the buckle to his hearts content? Sometimes their hearts just arent in it. Or a holiday might help?
I do feel a bit sorry for my mare, she is very good and she can be excellent but she will freak if she touches a pole, shes such a sensitive little flower! Im going to get someone else whos a good rider to jump her, I think that will help her as she wont have to worry about me then.
Hope you figure something out with your boy, he does sound a character!
 
I think you might have to just give him a smack and if he bucks or lands disunited, smack him again! By not obeying your leg on demand, he is just being disobedient - even if he is a bit of a madam, you can only make so many excuses. After all, if you were in the path of an oncoming bus and you put your leg on and he said 'not today', you'd damn well make him go! I find that saying firmly to the horse 'BECAUSE I SAY SO' and not backing off is the only way forward. You might have a fight the first few times but if you can sit it out and ride him on, he will discover that it's easier to obey you and go forward than to be mule-ish. Otherwise from his perspective, you ask, he bucks, then you back off him and he gets to dawdle again..

What do you think?

PS. I think they're draghunting at Hatley Park next Saturday again if you want to go. Pip has a fat knee tonight
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but otherwise I was planning to go. I don't think hunting will get him more forward out BSJA-ing but you might have a bit of a razz anyway!
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Kit279, we were once doing a lesson at Lordsbridge with Belinda & he was being a total ar*e & refusing to go down a grid containing nothing bigger than 3 ft. All of a sudden, I'd just had enough of him, put the reins in one hand, whip in the other & *really* smacked him all the way down the grid.

He was also being a t*t about jumping a course that night, so I did the same thing, & he went flying round, giving everything 18". Not sure who was the most startled out of him, me, o/h or Belinda... I've seen a photo of him jumping a // at 1 m 40, so he can do it if he's in the mood.

I couldn't really beat him round at a comp as he does get *very* cross & I'd prob be sent out.

Was going to hire Lordsbridge with jumps, but I've just looked on their website & it's £30 per hour, then with my trainer that would be another £30 for her. Wondering whether to start lessons with Belinda again, but they're not technical enough if you see what I mean, & I prefer the approach of my current trainer. But we can't really do proper course jumping with my 6 pairs of wings in my 20x40 school.

Not sure what to do for the best. No point hiring Lordsbridge + current trainer if it's going to be ££££££ in the long term, or in having lessons if they're not tech enough. Can't decide...
 
I agree, thrashing a horse round a course when competing is not fun for anyone. Belinda does a sort of cheapy group lesson for £15 on Tuesdays at 6pm which we sometimes go to, just to have someone put the jumps up really. However, I've hired Manor Farm the day after BSJA when the jumps are all up and it was £10 for an hour and a half (we weren't really clock watching!) and I brought my own trainer with me. THat might be better if you like your trainer more? Plus you can school round the BSJA course itself which I also found helpful when it gave me problems - I could do the difficult jumps over and over until I got them right.
 
I can sympathise. The ginger one was just the same. very capable but bone idle if allowed to be. If pushed would throw his toys out the pram.
The cure with him was a slow energy release feed (outshine) coupled with pushing through the tantrums. Once he had the idea that the ONLY option was forward things got a lot better and the stubborn streak diminished significantlly.

Thankfully my new girl is completely the opposite.
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PS, sorry we didn't have a chance to chat. I sort of had my hands full at the time
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maybe try doing some sort of parelli type join up work with him, perhaps he just needs to realise you are the herd leader and as such what you says goes. its not something i'm experienced in but maybe it could work since you've tried the whip and he obv just gets worse with that.
 
The key is to get him really off the leg at home so it becomes habit, then he will get better at competitions. Ive had to do it with mine, and the difference it is making is unreal. If you are cantering at home, and take your leg off, what happens?! Ideally he wants to be carrying on cantering untlhe gets told to stop... if he's not, he isnt forward enough. We did it by not being nasty, but literally asking once, and if he doesnt repsond, let go of the front end, and gallop him to the end of the school, clicking him forward as you do. Then pat, and go back to your work. This does work, but will only continue to if you get out of the habit of nagging
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Its just about changing their default setting from "go slower" to "GO FORWARD" to start with, kick smack boot, anything to get a response "NOW", but makesure you click them forward. Eventually, everytime they hear you click, they will go, instead of hand on your leg It does work, I promsie
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Kat has a very valid point - the leg ALWAYS means go, no matter what, no matter when. And the leg is "volume control" not an on/off switch - the horse has to go the amount you ask, when you ask. Always. From the second you walk away from the block, no matter what is in front of the horse.

I prefer to use a dressage whip rather than a kick because it is a finer aid but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. It's important not to increase the pressure of the leg until you get a result but to ask once, correctly, then back it up if you don't get the response you need, hard enough to have success. By the same token, your response has to be relative - if you're not careful with your aid then beat the horse after you've let him ignore you fifty times he has every right to be resentful. And, once he's going, you have to let him go, not fuss with his mouth or worry too much about his shape. Once he's in gear and regularly forward then yes, sure, worry about him going correctly into contact but by that point you'll have volume control anyway and it won't be an issue because you'll only push enough to keep him in balance.

I'd even add it in on the ground - when I cluck or tap a horse it has to move immediately in the direction I want. Again, of course, some horses allow you to be much more lenient and loose about the rules but if you have one that doesn't then that, for now anyway, is that. When the proper reaction is habit then you can afford to slacken off again . . . maybe.

Of course, you can't abuse this. Some horses are very "situational" and you can kick them by mistake or fuss with your leg when you don't really mean it and they will still listen when it counts BUT this is just the horse being nice and there is no real reason why it should be okay.
 
riding to a line can be intimidating for some horses espacially if they are a bit green..... a lot of the time they wont even have there eye on the first fence- more likely the second or third.

You just need to keep at it and be patient.......... prctise small lines as often as u can to get the poor buggers confidence up lol

Grids etc
 
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