Bucked off! Sorry bit long...

M

MsMaisy

Member
Joined
11 January 2010
Messages
10
Visit site
Hi, I have been lingering a while and wondered if there is anyone out there who could offer me some advice...?

My gelding is rising 5 ISH currently stands at 17h traditional hunter type, fabulous temperament easy to do and generally very laid back. I brought him before Christmas from a dealer who is very well respected and I know very well. I am very nervous due to a nasty fall and when I tried the horse all was fine. They were totally aware of this situation and assured me he would be fine. They had hunted him and he was truely sensible in all situations great on roads etc.

Prior to snow I had been hacking him out everyday and all was fine. He is a bit sharp about you getting on and would have a bit of a trot off for a couple of strides but would then be fine. Should mention at this point full 5 stage vetting passed with flying colours. Back and teeth fine.

Horse is turned out everyday for few hours subject to weather and is on no hard feed at all. Completely unfaised by being in, infact waits at the gate all day so not really one for charging around if this makes any difference.

Yesterday as hasn't been ridden for a few days I decided to lunge him before getting on. He was absolutely fine if not a bit lazy so decided to get on. Had previously had problem with him standing to mount but he stood perfectly so was really pleased. Anyway within 2 minutes of getting on horse took off did 3 laps of menage bucking and then when I circled him into the corner to try and stop dropped shoulder and I went catapulted through the air and flat on my hip.

Today in loads of pain, yesterday spent layed on lounge floor unable to do anything. Has been suggested that it was a noise etc that set it off but this horse is generally totally unflappable so don't believe that and I heard nothing.

So today sat in the same boat as was in before buying very nervous, with alot of brusing considering casualty with a hugely expensive horse brought to avoid this situation. I know obviously he is a youngster not a middle aged schoolmaster but this really was a good rodeo by anyones standard. I can ride competantly and have done so for years its purely that im nervous due to a similar accident and my confidence was eroded by a previous horse.

Dealer is more than happy to ride the horse and see what it is like for them but the 'seed is sown' so to speak and I don't know really if I haven't bitten off far more than I can chew or want a battle or to be paying others to ride such an expensive horse. Maybe I am wanting the impossible but I am getting really sick of being injured and scared of something that I spend so much money on every month.

Any ideas opinions would be apreciated if not already nodded off!
 
Will the dealer take him back? He does not sound like the horse you need to restore your confidence. Even if it was a one-off, with young horse being a bit sharp due to the weather, it is like you say 'the seed is sown'. The fact that he has bucked is always going to be in the back of your mind whenever he misbehaves and you may find yourself 'backing off' instead of riding him through any problems.
 
Oh thats a really rubbish situation to be in
frown.gif
, i know someone on this forum actually who was in a similar situation a couple of months ago when her 5yr old ISH did almost the same thing and broke her pelvis. She percivered (was her and her daughters horse to share so daugher rode afterwards) and it, from what i have heard from the daughter have been re building up confidence and it hasnt happened again. So they are glad they did, if that helps you out at all. Both are capable riders but the daughter was like you, incredibly nervous and this didnt set her back at all from what i have seen, the horse has also helped her gain confidence. They also found a competant sharer to ride and help school him and that sounds like its working out well.

You could try to find a sharer who could ride (competant obviously - if you are near any unis i would advertise there as a lot of people would have had horses before and sold before coming to uni etc so wanting to ride) and contribute financially (im at notts uni - know loads of people here if that helps - out in loughborough area). Obviously you would have to be honest about what he has done.

Otherwise i would say buying such a big 5yr old for someone so nervous might not have been a brilliant idea (i know you realise that i see!), as a 5yr old, no matter how safe they were before, will always have something to give, because as you say they are not a schoolmaster. Would you consider selling him and looking for an older horse? If not then sorry for mentioning it!
smile.gif
 
big sympathy for your injuries, hope you have had a hot bath to ease the muscle pains etc.
any horse can do this sort of thing, even a "middle aged schoolmaster". it does sound v out of character for him BUT recent weather, conditions etc will not have helped.
was all tack, saddle pads etc exactly as you usually have them? nothing different that could have caused this?
the fact that he was "a bit sharp about you getting on" previously would not have encouraged me to buy him for a nervous rider...
if you are very worried about the prospect of getting back on him, i would send him back to the dealer and get yourself as safe a cob as you can possibly find. a 5 yr old is unlikely to be 'as safe as you can find' imho.
if they won't take him back i think you'll be in a strong situation legally, because you stressed that you are nervous and wanted something very safe, it sounds as if you took every care (lungeing first etc) and he behaved in a way they had guaranteed he would not...
dealer might ride him and have no problems, so would a lot of people probably... that doesn't necessarily help you much because YOU have to ride him, obviously. if he was mine i'd tell the dealer exactly what has happened, and give the horse 1 more chance (that's what i'm doing with the one who dropped me 7 wks ago and put me on crutches!)
 
Hi MsM and welcome to the Forum,

Was he doing the "trotting off as soon as mounted" thing at the dealers? It sounds to me as if he's a little cold backed and the very fact that he stood so rock-still for you the day of the accident is almost certainly part of the puzzle. Don't forget that at not yet 5yrs old he's still very, very much a baby. In fact I'd be interested to know when he was backed and what he's done since then. He may have been backed at 3 then turned away and only have been brought into work last Autumn. So he will be very very green, to the point where it would be wrong of the dealer to sell him as the perfect horse for a nervous rider.

The thing about babies is that they are still learning about life every single time they're ridden. They need to be ridden very regularly to reinforce the learning - not easy in this weather! It sounds to me as though your horse is a little "cold backed" (which the dealer should have mentioned) and if his saddle is a good fit means that he just needs a couple of moments after you have mounted with you sitting very lightly on him. You need to get some advice on this because even if he's cold backed, he must stand politely while you mount.

I also imagine that your boy has enjoyed not being ridden so he will have tons of energy to burn (even though your feeding regime is good). That, coupled with him being a baby and being cold backed, and he's just forgotten a bit of his backing and chucked you off. It really does sound as if you have nice horse there but most times, very young horses and either novice or nervous riders (or both) aren't a good partnership. Having said that, I think if you have his saddle and back checked, then have lessons on him and/or watch him ridden by the instructor and you should see progress. Don't forget you've only had him for a few weeks and relationships take time to build. I have to say though that I don't think this is a good start and I'm not at all sure a 4yr old is the right horse for anyone whose confidence is in tatters x
 
is he clipped ?? was it cold?? alot of horses get quite fresh when the wid hits them or a cold wind mine does this alot he can be really bloody stupid or did u do his girth up and he jsut felt it or did u put your leg on and he fely quite sensitive horses are unpredictable and especially 5 i buy all my horses at 3 years and dont think you can truely know what your getting until 7 or 8 , would the dealer take him back or find someone to get on him and see what he does when they put there leg on etc . i think to be honest if your scared of falling off you need to buy a 16 hand draught x safe 10 year old they can do what you would like to do too!!!!
 
I do feel for you. I lost it big style with my last horse so I know how it feels. I think I would get a physiotherapist to check the back.I bought one horse. Passed a five star vetting from Leahursts.Always stumbled badly though.Saddle fitter sugested physio.Bad back.Back fixed.Stumbling stopped.My present horse passed a five star vetting from a horse specialist vet.Had a terrible back. No one mentioned it.Even I could see the muscle wastage though.You say that he was always a bit sharp about you getting on and that makes me think it may be his back.
 
I would ask the dealer to perhaps take him back and find something more suited to you. I sold a horse two years ago - he was totally unflappable, brilliant in the heaviest traffic, jumped the moon, never stopped, well schooled (had competed at HOYS but superficial scar ended showing career) and was regularly ridden by a 12yo whose legs barely touched the bottom of the saddle (he was 17.1hh). Anyway, I sold him to a novice rider, having never had any problems with him at all, and within a week she was hammering on my door demanding I take him back - apparently he reared, bolted, bucked, napped - you name it. I don't know why he did it with her, but I took him back no problems - I knew there was nothing wrong with the horse, and I was happy to find him another home rather than risk him being passed from pillar to post. Two weeks later he found another owner, who still has him - he has never put a hoof out of line with her, and they are aiming at doing some BE this year.

Sometimes horses just don't click with people, or sometimes one little incident (wrong time/wrong place) leads to the snowball effect, the rider loses confidence in the horse, who in turn loses confidence in the rider, and things just get worse and worse.
 
Poor you, what a horrible thing to happen! Not surprised your confidence is badly knocked.

I would honestly and truly urge you to get the saddle checked. The grey one I have on loan did exactly what you are describing. The owners said he always took off like a bullet as your bum hit the saddle and orbited around the yard/school for a few laps before settling down, although he still never liked to stand still (He is LOU companion now). It was very clear to me that the saddle they sent him with didnt fit - waaaay too narrow - and so my guess is it hurt like hell when you sat on it. After a few laps he obviously 'got used to it'. It sounds so similar to yours that I would investigate!
 
Thanks for all your replies. The horse is kept on the dealers yard so nothing has changed there. They know my riding well as I was a previous livery and were certain that the horse would be absolutely fine. He has not been clipped recently and was being ridden in the indoor school if that helps. He is on no feed deliberately to keep him as quiet as possible and we have been careful to turnout etc.

I can afford to get them to ride him but thats not really a route I wanted to go down. I am fine with schooling him and expected the odd 'baby' moment but not a full on rodeo on week two!

I think that actually he has been getting progressively 'Cold backed' or developing a habit around people getting on the more I think about it, but he stood so beautifully before tanking off I don't really get it. We also stood for a minute or so before setting off.

I don't really know what to do. Dealer can't believe it and was saying about tack etc.. they are getting on him tomorrow with the groom to see what happens so will go and watch bruises permitting! Will see about back, his teeth have been done and vet didn't spot anything on vetting..
 
[ QUOTE ]
He is on no feed deliberately to keep him as quiet as possible and we have been careful to turnout etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not feeding a horse to keep it quiet sounds like the wrong thing to be doing (unless of course he is a good doer and getting what he needs from his forage). Is he the correct body score and muscled up to the standard for his training and age?

Not feeding will just hide his true temprament, which you shoudl be able to handle.
 
Sorry to hear you have been hurt and had your confidence dented.

To be honest a 5 year old is too young a horse to be a proper confidence giver as they will have 'wobbly' moments. Cold weather is exactly the kind of thing that can spark this sort of issue. I would take it as part and parcel of owning a youngster.

You would be much better off with an older horse (10 +).

As for your chap now, I would certainly get someone else to ride him and see what happens. Why are you reluctant to get someone else to ride him? If he behaves the same way with others it may well point to a physical problem, if he does not, maybe a bit of re-schooling will help him regain his confidence (remember he will also be shaken from the incident).

What does your trainer say? I appreciate the person you bought the horse from is trying to help you out and I am not suggesting they are trying to swindle you, but sometimes it is good to have someone more impartial. A trainer could assess your skills and the horse, advise you on whether you are a good match or not and give you support and training to make it work.

Good luck!
 
Ok a few questions:

- Did you cut the feed right back as soon as the bad weather started?

- Did you make any attempt to punish the bucking, or did you naturally freeze?


The other thing, if you are not jumping at the moment is a solution!

Invest in an Australian stock saddle, this is near enough physically impossible to get bucked off with. Its a huge confidence booster, and although I got into them for polocrosse, I always have one for youngsters, as teaches them its futile to buck (personally I am not a fan of hitting the deck)
 
I'm not at all reluctant to get someone else to ride him I just didn't really want to be in an ongoing situation where someone else needs to ride him week in week out. I never intended a project or I wouldn't have gone down the route of buying from this person (who is my instructor) or spending anywhere near the amount of money I have. I may have been naive but they assured me it would be fine.

I sat on him while he bucked to see if he would stop of his own accord then it became much more violent so I circled him and tried to use the corners of the school to stop not feeling worried at that point. Then he managed to get head between legs and dropped shoulder which is when we parted company.

He has had his feed cut back since begining of December as he had stopped hunting and was only hacking out.

The lady I brought it off is my instructor and she says they will ride him to see what happens and then I should (providing all is ok) try again. We are getting back and saddle checked also.

I suppose really i'm just very sore, and dissappointed as I have only had him 5 minutes and thought that I had got myself a real star. Maybe he still will be its just all a bit of a shock.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I think that actually he has been getting progressively 'Cold backed' or developing a habit around people getting on the more I think about it, but he stood so beautifully before tanking off I don't really get it. We also stood for a minute or so before setting off.


[/ QUOTE ]

do you usually stand still on him for a minute before moving off? if not, this could be a contributory factor here.
i have NEVER done this with young horses, i think it gives them time to think "hhhmm, what shall i do?!" i let them walk on as soon as i am in the saddle, if their feet are moving they tend to relax.
i think it all depends what happens when dealer/groom rides. did someone get back on him after he ditched you? i suspect not, but if they did, was he fine?
 
While this was undoubtedly due to the lay off due to the snow and being a little cold backed, it does sound as if you would be better with a genuine schoolmaster type of horse. No matter how quiet a horse is, at 5 no horse is going to be 100% reliable. He might never buck again in his life.

But I wonder why your instructor, dealer, etc didn't advise you to get a proper schoolmaster of around 11 years plus?
 
I'd agree at 5, especially ID types they can still very much be mentally teenagers. So they test to see how much they can push you.

For example I think one of mine finally went through their rearing phase aged 5 - soon nipped in the bud, but you have to be ready to deal with stroppy teenagers! Firm but fair.

Again you might well have a really nice horse on your hands and a stock saddle is a useful tool to have!
 
[ QUOTE ]

But I wonder why your instructor, dealer, etc didn't advise you to get a proper schoolmaster of around 11 years plus?

[/ QUOTE ]

Could that be because she had a 5 yr old to sell?

OP my first thought was that in addition to all the other very valid suggestions, has he possibly changed shape in the 2(?) weeks he has had off, especially if he was hunting until recently and has now been let down. My 10 yr old IDx changes shape all the time and it is a nightmare to fit her saddle consistently. Another vote for getting saddle checked.
 
I second the Australian Stock saddle idea, you will never fall off even if he full on rodeos and as a result you will be much more confident

This could happen with any horse; I think you need to plug on yourself with him once you have recovered from this episode. I would be paying someone capable to be giving him lots of work in the meantime.

Good Luck!
 
What you really need is a good old fashioned type 'kick on cob the plod' that will go on it's own or first or last when in company. This will completely restore your confidence and you will have many happy hours with it. I would also go for something smaller as they are far easier to hop on and off.

Finding such a paragon of virtune is best done by advertising for one locally so that you can have several goes on it to judge it's true temprement.

I would without any delay return the horse you have purchased to the dealer and ask for a full refund as you can legally do as the horse is not suitable for the intended purpose.
 
I haven't read all of the replies yet but just wanted to add that it seems a lot of ISH are tricky to get on - standing still is a problem when they are first going out (my ISH is the same) they seem to need retraining to stand still when you are getting on.

I sent mine away for this and is 99% better now although he is anxious - he stands still.

Good luck
laugh.gif
 
Sounded odd from the offset that you acknowledge yourself as a nervous rider, but have a 5 yo horse. They are still learning, and pushing the boundaries, and even if as a good rider you have the experience to sit out most of the bucks etc., there is still a good chance they will happen occasionally, which is likely to push you into a cycle of not trusting the horse, getting tense, and making the behaviour worse.

I can't imagine that any instructor would advise a nervous rider to take on a 5 year old (even really if the instructor knew the horse had always been good to date, cos there is so much for them still to try out and learn). If the dealer/instructor is willing to take the horse back, in your situation I would be tempted to cut my losses and get out now. Then look for a sensible older horse; doesn't need to be boring and ploddy if you want to compete etc., just something that is a bit more "been there, done that" and has significantly more years of ridden experience under its belt on which to judge its ridden behaviour.

That said, there is a good chance that there was an external factor which sparked the behaviour in this case, and if you are lucky it will never recur. Snow tends to make them a bit edgy; I had a usually very sane 20+ yo cob type spooking at snow falling off the trees, and trying to get down and roll with me when we were stood still. Could also be a pulled muscle if turned out in it. I think one I ride also got bit/stung a couple of weeks ago. I know we don't expect it in winter, but the way he just leaped forwards out of a walk, and was so calm before and after leaves that as the most likely option, and I thought there was a small lump on his quarters afterwards.

If you are determined to keep trying with this horse, watch him with someone else on to be sure the issue isnt going to repeat, then you need to get into the mindset that it was a one off and won't happen again, otherwise you are pretty much just asking for it to happen. It sounds like riding every day has worked well for you in the past, and could improve your confidence and your horses routine. Clearly depends on how the snow has affected your access though. Maybe dont ride yourself again until it is clear and you can start as you mean to go on.

As an outsider to the situation, I would also add that I really don't trust your instructor. Clearly you know her best, but it sounds from outside that she has sold you an unsuitable horse to make herself a profit, and will be unwilling to acknowledge its unsuitability which will make it difficult for you to formulate a plan to move forward through your problems with her. Perhaps if you are keeping the horse, you need a more impartial instructor to help you work through the issues.
 
I bought a 2 year old with a lovely temperament and she is now rising 8 but along the way she has dented my confidence very quietly and discreetly, i still love her to bits and do dressage, showing and jumping but if i had my time over i would never have bought such a young horse we both would have been much further on in our riding career if I had an older horse or she had an owner who had already been through the tubulent years with other young horses i found between 5 and 7 was the most difficult but we have got through it even though both of our confidences could do with a boost
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top