Bucking 4 year old

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Sam3

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Hello, Would be very grateful of any tips on how to deal with my very stubben youngster!
Elvis is a 4yo thourabred X that i bought as an 18month old gelding. He is the sweetest cuddliest horse to handle but seems to hate work in all its forms!
He will only go forward at his own pace and when asked to go forward a bit quicker (even when just in walk) he broncs repeatedly on the spot.
I am as sure as i can be that it is not a pain issue and he is exactly the same on long reins and lunge, with and with out tack, yet will spend ages raceing about the paddock with his friends.
I am at my wits end with him!:confused:
 
Have you had his back checked to be absolutely sure? It may be he is experiencing some sort of twinge somewhere. It may also be that he is just having a bit of a moment!

I would look at having some lessons with someone with knowledge of bringing on youngsters - ie not someone who's aim is to get them working on the bit etc from the word dot!

I know exactly what this woman would say who I have had assist me with my youngster and also my sister has had for lessons - she would say it is all to do with balance and he is finding what you're asking him difficult to do so his broncing may be the way he helps himself. At 4 I imagine he still has some growing to do - is he bum high at the moment or pretty level. What this lady advises is that the horse needs to learn to use his hindquarters and not rely on his front to balance and this makes it hard work for them and why they can end up leaning or indeed bucking etc.

There are certain techniques she uses on the ground - too long to explain really, much better to see in practice to understand. They may well help you though. It may be worth having a look on her website (she's called sara ussher). if you are in Yorkshire area then it may be worth having a few lessons or if not seeing if there's anyone nearer you who teaches in a similar way.

Lessons definitely seem to be the answer though, it would seem your horse is just finding the work you are asking him to do a little difficult.
 
What exactly are you doing with him, as in what is his work load and routine?

Does he understand what you are asking of him, perhaps you expecting too much? maybe he's just said enough is enough and thrown his teddies completely.

Have you tried getting a second opinion, having an instructor, a second pair of eyes that may spot something you have'nt or suggest you concentrate on one particular thing and make sure that he understands that and does that well before introducing other thigns.

Never assume it's not pain, always have the saddle and back checked just for safe measure.

Yes sometimes they are stubbon and they will test you but I'd make sure it's nothing else first.
 
I have had bucking and broncing issues with my youngster. We have also had one lay off after another due to veterinary issues and now, rising 6, he is going to be re-backed this Spring.

We have had issues with a sore back and had vet and physio. He now does his stretches to strengthen his back and is remarkably improved in his way of going.

Would echo Kenzo that another pair of experienced eyes on the ground is an absolute must - or get someone to video, so that you can watch back. If you can absolutely confirm that there is no pain related issue, then I would recommend getting a professional to help you just get him past this stage.
 
wow that was quick, thanks!
I have spoken to my instructor whos opinion is that lessons at this stage would probably make him worse so she has suggested carrying on with his hacking and hopefully he will start enjoying work a bit more. He is just as happy to hack alone as in company and won't take a lead off another in school as does'nt mind being left behind!
He is not croup high at the moment and he has a good strong and fairly short back, he has no tender or twitchy areas to the touch and is the opposit of tense- hes so laid back he horizontal untill you ask him to work harder than he wants.
He is ridden gently about 3 times a week and lunged once. As an example of his behaviour, this morning it was too icey to hack on the road so i took him for a hack through the feilds, on a relaxed (as i dare!) contact, no pressure to work hard just gentle hacking. He walked happily through one field (ears pricked and relaxed), we trotted the length of next field perfectly, walked through a gate way and when i asked for trot again he stood on the spot and bucked repeatedly. When you try to send him forward the bucks get bigger and he still won't move untill you stop asking, then he relaxes and plods on ears pricked in walk.
I really think he is just trying to get his own way! I'v had him from 18months old and whenever i told him off then he used to ritaliate by swinging his bum at me, he grew out of this but still does'nt like being told off.
I have broken many youngsters and never had one so un willing
 
you say he stops basically when you give in. So I agree he is most likely throwing a baby paddy. Unfortunately he has learnt that if he bucks enough times you stop asking and he then gets his own way, so bucking works as far as he is concerned

You really need to find a way to 'make' him go forward. I had similar problem years ago with Beacon I put a flash strap through the D rings on my saddle and every time he bucked I held on and smacked him with a short whip down the shoulder and put my leg on

The other thing I found that worked later when he tried it again was to ask once if he bucked I would almost pony club kick and growl at him. This was such a shock to him that he obeyed he got lots of praise then too

Unfortunately the more times you stop asking when he bucks the worse the situation is going to get, probably even to the point that one day he won't want to move at all

If you are not confident to this then you need some help (that is not a critism it really takes guts and experience to deal with this)

I wish you lots of luck!!
 
Just thinking aloud here, but would some kind of distraction help? For example, if you feel that he is going to start bucking, how about asking him to turn through 90 degrees and walk a few steps, then loads of praise.

Would turning small circles in walk help? I don't know the answer to that, so it is a question, but I guess that I'm thinking that this would disengage the backend, so no broncing - and he would have to work harder turning small circles than he would trotting. Of course, this probably wouldn't be a suitable exercise for a baby...

I just remember someone saying that they key with horses was always to make it easy for them to do the right thing...
 
lungeing 5 times a week minimum, but not overdoing it, always lunge and long rein before riding, at this stage i would be doing more lunging and long reining than riding, and would not ride out on a bucker, he is not accepting your legs or your place as his leader or boss if you like, you do the asking he does the work is the way it should be, he should be looking to you for assurance and to give him confidence should it be needed, he has learned to buck and challenge your right to ask him, he needs to learn on the lunge to work a bit harder in the sense that when a thing is asked for he does it within a bout 6 seconds
 
We have a 5 year old ex racer on the yard. He was bought as a 4 year old and never raced despite his father being a Derby winner. His owner did not even attempt to ride him due to his issues. Very similar to what you are describing. Won't go forward, broncing etc when asked to, yet gallops around and plays with his field mates no problem. Unfortunately it turns out this horse has very severe case of kissing spines. You would never think it to look at his back conformation. He is now undergoing treatment.

I am not saying your horse has a physical problem, but 9 times out of 10 I have found that such problems are due to pain.
 
Thanks for your help guys, will def try the turning him on a circle thing. Im not a nervous rider and the only thing stopping me really driving him forward hard is that at the moment he has'nt got me off and i don't think at this stage he realises he could so i'm concious of pushing too hard, getting chucked and then that becoming a habit! I usually lay off and let him walk a little way and then ask for trot again, he never gets to not do it, it just takes a little time.
As regards to lungeing before riding him, i have tried it and he is then worse as hes tired and grumpy. As of yet i hav'nt had any bucking on the road as i think hes so busy checking out suroundings.
I have vet coming in couple of weeks to do my other horses teeth so i can ask him to give Elvis' back a once over too.
 
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