Bucking question

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anna22

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So... my big grey boy is being a bit temperamental at the moment. He is backward by nature and will not work unless he has to, but in the last 2 weeks he has started getting a bit handy with his back legs when I ask for canter, on the right lead especially. Although only when schooling at home :confused:
Saddle fit is fine :)

Trotting up sound in a straight line on the hard and soft, and sound on a circle on the soft on both reins. Canters fine on the lunge, no air time to be seen although he finds it a little harder on the right but no change there... he struggles with the bend on the right, always has done. He dislikes landing on the right lead jumping, but will do without any arguments.

So my question is: any ideas as to what may be causing it?? :confused:

I know we can't really say, so I have an appointment at my vets on monday anyway, but was wondering what everyone else thought. My varying ideas include:

He has a skin complaint at the moment with he is finding particularly distressing and is immensely sensitive over his right flank... clipping this area was emotional for both of us at the weekend :rolleyes: so a thought I had was maybe its his skin? He also bronked like billyo today when i moved his girth slightly having done it up. Took a while to calm down after undoing it.

Then, him being lazy although now being pretty fit leads me to ask: is it behavioural? As I competed dressage last weekend, and having bucked his way through our schooling session the night before... NOT A PEEP at the competition, lovely transitions. Schooled around somerford fun ride on either leg like a dream.

And the final dreaded thought: lame?! :( would ruin my year but horses will be horses...

Sorry for the essay, they are my thoughts... any other ideas/thoughts/comments gratefully received. We will still go to the vets regardless, I'd rather get him checked over. :) Well done for surviving the essay!
 
What does he look like when he bucks? Sometimes it obvious just by looking at the horse like my boy bucks quite often with a squeal his tail is up and ears pricked obviously just enjoying himself.

The girth thing concerns me, has he ever done anything like that before? Has he got any pain along his back? My horse started broncing when I did his girth up and it turned out to be a pretty severe liver condition and there was me worried it was ulcers. It could be absolutely anything so definitely worth getting your vet to check him all over.
 
I have to be honest liver was on my list unfortunately... he yawns an awful lot too.
Its hard to say as I haven't caught him on camera doing it as its always when I'm schooling at home. He sort of flashes his legs out either slightly to the inside or just a plain old little buck. He has never buck enough to unbalance me, but it worries me that he has suddenly started doing it regularly at home.

He has always been girthy, so I have a sheep skin cover for him. But he has never done anything like he did the other day when he bronked when I tugged the girth forward a little.

He is stiff through his back, and the physio has been booked later in the week...he wont arch through his back when you pinch under his belly. I spend time during each schooling session working him long and low to help this.

Horses?! If only he could tell me what's wrong! :rolleyes:
 
Sounds pain related to me so I think you're doing the right things re physio and full checkup from vet (good horsey vet, I presume!)

If he isn't so bad at comps, it could be the raised adrenalin that helps to mask the discomfort.
 
We're going to the see the vet regardless... I had a friend ride him for me this morning so I could actually see what he was doing. He doesn't move through his loins at all, and resists bending around the right leg. So throws his toys out of the pram when he has to - hence the bucking.
Once bending and listening, he didn't buck at all or resist the transition.

I'm worried now about his sacroiliac, but hopefully the vet will be able to get to the bottom of it tomorrow. Physio second line if necessary.

Yes good horsey vet, almost too good sometimes ;) finds things you never dreamed were going on.

Thanks for the replies :) I'll update after the vets tomorrow.
 
Just wanted to say how lovely it is to read a thread and hear someone actually listening to what their horse is telling them! I too was going to say it sounded like a pain thing from what you said. I hope that it goes well with the vet, and that if he does find something that it is something that you can find a treatment for and work through. He is a lucky horse to have an owner who listens so well, and there are many many others out there who can only wish for such an owner! :)
 
anna22 said:
He doesn't move through his loins at all, and resists bending around the right leg.
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Anna22 clearly the vet is the best way forward. As you suspected and others have said your horse is communicating discomfort/pain.

My Fell tries to conceal pain and I only become aware of it when he can no longer tolerate it. So he might flash his teeth, raise a hoof, flatten his ears and ultimately buck, bite and moan. I am sure they must wish we understood each other better and they could tell us exactly what the problem is.

When mine resists turning (pivoting) I usually suspect laminitis, because in my boy that has been the case before. I now catch things before they start in a sense, or at least recognise trouble early on and manage it.

I hope your vet finds the cause of the trouble in your horse you can work on a management plan
 
So we went to the vets yesterday... and try as my vet might, he was completely sound even on that hard lunge on a 10m circle which I was fairly impressed with considering he is in the more mature years of his life (19 this year).
On palpation, there was sensitivity over his lumbar region and down his right flank but no other signs of discomfort, flexion tests fine (couldn't believe that part?! :D)
So tack on and off we went to school in front of a crowd of people... :o rather nerve wracking but I have to say my boy went like a dream. First right canter: tail swish and nothing.
Second canter to the right and buck! So glad he did it infront of the vet. But third canter; lovely transition, nice and relaxed and no tension through his back at all... just like when we are schooling at home.

So it was decided X-rays were needed of his hocks and his DSPs (spinous processes).

Hocks: clear as a whistle
Thoracic spine: up to 6 close spinous processes

As I had to use my hand to nose twitch him to prevent him from eating the xray machine he had done his best impression of a giraffe :rolleyes: ...so the xray was slightly exaggerated. But they were definitely there.

Outcome: Kissing spines is looking the likely cause.

So, I had his back shockwaved and the vet said as it seems he gets occasional 'twinges' of discomfort when he tenses up into the transition, rather than constant discomfort, modifying my schooling and warming up routines should help a lot and we will have to see how he goes.
Hopefully the shock wave will help him to relax and relieve the tension and discomfort for now and some selective schooling and stretches will hopefully strengthen and relax his back.

At least it's something we can hopefully work with as he's had the condition for a long time, so I'm hoping when he's been pratting around doing air acrobatics out in the field he's hurt something, and it's highlighted this. I will have to see what the donkey says with some modification to our routine :) I think he deserves time off schooling... I will just have to freeze to death out hacking!

Thanks AnnaGHDT, I am lucky to have him really! Thank you everyone for the thoughts and your concern. I will let you know how things pan out :)
 
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Well, either physical or behavioural or a combination of the two, but you already know that. It's trying to figure out which - never easy.

It's so difficult because even when it's behavioural (ie the horse is exerting it's dominance) it can look like there's a physical problem and that he's in pain.

I would video his behaviour in all environments and basically try to rule out signs of tension. If there are signs of tension in his behvaiour [perhaps when the saddle/rug goes on or in his ridden work] this is probably the best indication that there could be pain involved.

Signs of tension in both handling and ridden work would include: tail clamped down on bottom (not tail swishing per sa), top lip tight/tense and perhaps protruding over bottom lip, nostrils in oval shape rather than their round shape.

If he is also exhibiting some behavioural changes on one side, but not the other, this may also be an indication that it's pain related.

I hope this helps for you. Seems to work for me MOST of the time!!
 
anna22 said:
So we went to the vets yesterday... and try as my vet might, he was completely sound even on that hard lunge on a 10m circle which I was fairly impressed with considering he is in the more mature years of his life (19 this year).
On palpation, there was sensitivity over his lumbar region and down his right flank but no other signs of discomfort, flexion tests fine (couldn't believe that part?! :D)
So tack on and off we went to school in front of a crowd of people... :o rather nerve wracking but I have to say my boy went like a dream. First right canter: tail swish and nothing.
Second canter to the right and buck! So glad he did it infront of the vet. But third canter; lovely transition, nice and relaxed and no tension through his back at all... just like when we are schooling at home.

So it was decided X-rays were needed of his hocks and his DSPs (spinous processes).

Hocks: clear as a whistle
Thoracic spine: up to 6 close spinous processes

As I had to use my hand to nose twitch him to prevent him from eating the xray machine he had done his best impression of a giraffe :rolleyes: ...so the xray was slightly exaggerated. But they were definitely there.

Outcome: Kissing spines is looking the likely cause.

So, I had his back shockwaved and the vet said as it seems he gets occasional 'twinges' of discomfort when he tenses up into the transition, rather than constant discomfort, modifying my schooling and warming up routines should help a lot and we will have to see how he goes.
Hopefully the shock wave will help him to relax and relieve the tension and discomfort for now and some selective schooling and stretches will hopefully strengthen and relax his back.

At least it's something we can hopefully work with as he's had the condition for a long time, so I'm hoping when he's been pratting around doing air acrobatics out in the field he's hurt something, and it's highlighted this. I will have to see what the donkey says with some modification to our routine :) I think he deserves time off schooling... I will just have to freeze to death out hacking!

Thanks AnnaGHDT, I am lucky to have him really! Thank you everyone for the thoughts and your concern. I will let you know how things pan out :)
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Very well done Sherlock :D

I have a horse who also bucks into the canter transition unless he is warmed up first. I use poultry lamps from eBay 20 quid each, and bake him before I get on for 20 minutes and then he is an angel. They are so cheap, you might be able to try them? They plug directly into a socket, no wiring needed.
 
Interestingly, mine is also OK after travelling. I put it down to the fact that they actually use their back muscles to keep their balance, and so arrive already warmed up ?
 
Cptrayes: Thats a good idea, I was trying to think of ways I could relax his back before ridden work... I may give those lamps a try!
I see the same, if we've travelled anywhere he doesn't ever act tense or sensitive, lovely and relaxed into the transitions. They have to use their core muscles to balance so they're obviously getting a mini work out on the way!
We'll see how we go i guess, there are plenty of things to try: it could have been far worse so I'm glad we at least have something to work with :)
Sounds awful but I'm glad llanymynech has been abandoned... I was going to withdraw,just to give us chance to work into a new regime before trying to compete. It's a shame its such a rubbish start to the season :(
 
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Vet said physio wouldn't have helped, but he recommended stretches and schooling exercises for us to do... I do have a sneaking suspicion that the big grey oaf has twinged himself being a prat in the wind and caused a long standing thing to rear its ugly head :rolleyes: but with time, some relaxation and stretching he'll improve. So I do think I'll get the physio out, she's great at loosening them up after they've got themselves all tight and knotted.
Hopefully the shockwave will relieve things for the time being so I'll see how he goes over the next week and get the physio out then :)
I should get a direct debit set up for the horse :eek:
 
I am wary of them... that's why my first line was the vet, even though friends tried to convince me the physio would save me money. The last one convinced me my old horse was just sore over his gluts and to work him through it, when in fact he had done both his suspensories behind and the working him through it made it far worse.
I'm going to give the shockwave and new routine a chance as I think it's the best chance he's got. Also with llanymynech cancelled, I'm going to give him a couple of weeks off schooling and just hack and light lunge.
 
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