Buckskin colour

Buckskins and duns can look similar - say yellow body, black points, but the two are very different genetically. (I'm sure someone will be along soon that will explain the exact colour genetics)
Some breeds of horse like Highlands have the dun colour gene (they also have the eel stripe along the back) others like Welsh have the buckskin colour gene.
 
I don't know - mine was advertised as a dun when I bought him 16 years ago but since then I have learned that he probably is officially buckskin as he is a golden yellow cokour (quite bright in the summer) with black legs but also has a white face and one white sock. I don't care what he is though, I like his colour and I've not seen one the same colour as him!
 
There is a difference as Lexie says. Until all the genetics started to be understood, basically a dun was a dun (whatever shade it hapened to be) and buckskin was just the North American term for the same colour, the same way that 'coloured' and 'paint' is a general term of description rather than specific such as skewbald or bay tobiano.

This is a red dun. Dorsal stripe, barring on legs quite clear:
ccded4e1.jpg


Palomino dun (dunalino):
5a64f289.jpg


Dun Paint:
92f46625.jpg


This is a bog standard buckskin, no stripe, no bars:
dc07c86a.jpg
 
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Ah OK, and there i was thinking we were calling a spade a shovel!!! :)

Thank you

Now to me the Red Dun would be a light Chesnut
The Palomino a Palomino
Dun Paint a Skewbald
And the buckshin a Dun, though as he does not have a dorsal stripe or zebra marks on the legs!?
 
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Just nicked this off another thread!!


When people started to study inheritance and then even more now they have started to discover the genes responsible and besides us Brits have always been right at the bottom of the class where colours are concerned!

1, Grey is not a colour, every grey is born a colour and the grey gene fades the coat so you can't see it any more.
2, Not everything that isn't Palomino is DUN! That's why you breed two Duns and get a blue eyed cream (they wern't Duns!!! they were Buckskins). Breed 2 palominos and you can get a blue eyed cream
3, Piebald and skewbald are very simplistic there are several forms of coloureds and knowing about frame Overo's along with genetic testing can save a foals life!
4, The descriptive Roan covers several coat flecking genes so breed certain types together and you might not get what you wanted.
5, A black horse may well not be black at all. Especially if it's coloured !!(you can't see the clues that it may be seal brown)
6, If you want or want to avoid certain colours then you have to know how you get or avoid them!

Oh and you didn't mention Appaloosa (spotted) pattern probably just as well as how those coat colouring are inherited are very complex!!
 
They are very different but us British got it all wrong. If it's yellow we call it a Dun!

A Dun is a dilute colouring that fades the coat by making one side of each hair opaic. You cannot tell from looking at a Dun if it has one or two copies of the gene. But a Dun comes with other "Wild" markings , Dorsal Stripe, Darker head, Cobweb effect on the head, stripes on the legs etc.

Buckskin is a product of the cream gene, same dilute gene as palomino (chestnut) but this time working on a black, bay or brown coat. So a buckskin is a Bay Brown or Black palomino.

The Cream gene that is responsible for the Palomino and Buckskin has a double effect if inherited from both parents so you can get a "Blue Eyed Cream" a cremello perlino of Smoky cream again depending on the original coat colour of Chestnut (Palomino) or Black/Bay/Brown (Buckskin). The gene turns reddish hair yellow, but does not have much effect on black hairs, which is why you have to look very hard to spot a smoky black (black buckskin).
 
Allover said:
Ah OK, and there i was thinking we were calling a spade a shovel!!! :)

Thank you

Now to me the Red Dun would be a light Chesnut
The Palomino a Palomino
Dun Paint a Skewbald
And the buckshin a Dun, though as he does not have a dorsal stripe or zebra marks on the legs!?
Click to expand...

this ^^ :O i never knew it was so complicated!
 
Allover said:
Ah OK, and there i was thinking we were calling a spade a shovel!!! :)

Thank you

Now to me the Red Dun would be a light Chesnut
The Palomino a Palomino
Dun Paint a Skewbald
And the buckshin a Dun, though as he does not have a dorsal stripe or zebra marks on the legs!?
Click to expand...

:D Me too. I still do mostly.

I only split hairs when someone else does it first, the dunalino gets called palomino, anything with white on it is called a Paint whether it is or not, and the buckskin is generally referred to as "you old cowbag" :)
 
Enfys said:
:D the buckskin is generally referred to as "you old cowbag" :)
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Lol :D

I suppose it only really matters for breeding purposes then!

3, Piebald and skewbald are very simplistic there are several forms of coloureds and knowing about frame Overo's along with genetic testing can save a foals life!

How so KarynK, sounds interesting?
 
pintoarabian said:
I think this link will explain why knowing your colours can help save a foal by preventing it from being conceived in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_white_syndrome
Click to expand...

Quite so, which is why I choose to only breed this mare (sabino frame) to an AQHA rather than some of the lovely APHA overos I have available. She still produces overos (my pattern of choice) but without the LWO risk.

3c3c66dd.jpg
 
Fantastic colour experts!

Please can I pick brains?

In some years time (no rush), I plan to breed from my filly (who I bred). She is chestnut with flaxen mane & overo (white belly patches, flecking through coat & lots of white spots appearing), 4 long white socks, white face & flesh marks around her lower jaw. According to CHAPS she is coloured (even though a pure bred arab).

The semen I have stored is from an american stallion, Blacklord Falkhan, who unfortunately died some years back. He is black, no white, from generations of black (homozygous black).

With a 50/50 chance of the overo gene being passed on, would it be expressed? The foal will be black, is there a dominance, given his family history of no white, that would hide the overo gene? Would it be black, or coloured?
 
pip6 said:
In some years time (no rush), I plan to breed from my filly (who I bred). She is chestnut with flaxen mane & overo (white belly patches, flecking through coat & lots of white spots appearing), 4 long white socks, white face & flesh marks around her lower jaw. According to CHAPS she is coloured (even though a pure bred arab).
Click to expand...

I think, please note, only think, and am happy to be corrected on this, that your filly, as she is a purebred, is sabino rather than overo, many arabs, particularly chestnuts and of Crabbet lineage show a lot of white. I imagine Pintoarabian will know all this :)

CHAPS qualify coloureds, I understand (or have they changed the goal posts in the last 6 or 7 years?) on the size and position of white regardless of breed.

Which brings me to another pondering, probably best put on another thread altogether for the experts, are white markings such as socks and blazes inherited or just luck of the draw? Would, say, two solid bays from a line of solid bays be as likely to produce a bay with four whites and a blaze, as parents with markings would?
 
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Hi,
My horse is passported as a Dun, we like to think of him as a Bun (Bay/Dun). I think i have just posted a few pics of him in my album, mostly from the start of last summer and one from a few days ago still with his winter woolies on. I am very curious to know what others think to his colour so feel free to look and comment, i'v tried to put a pic of his back on too.
Thanks.
 
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Enfys said:
Which brings me to another pondering, probably best put on another thread altogether for the experts, are white markings such as socks and blazes inherited or just luck of the draw? Would, say, two solid bays from a line of solid bays be as likely to produce a bay with four whites and a blaze, as parents with markings would?
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Well let me tell you my limited experience on this one!!!.........

My mare has had 3 foals,

She is bay with a little white on one back leg. The first stallion she was put to was chesnut, she produced a dark bay.

The subsequent 2 coverings she was put to a solid bay stallion, the first was chesnut with 4 white socks and a big balze, the second is a livery chesnut with a blaze and one white sock!

Go figure! :)
 
There is a simple genetic test for OLWS. Only this version of frame leads to lethal white foals so as long as one parent doesn't have the gene the mating is safe.

Sabino frame withoutt the OLWS gene can be crossed with another frame overo safely.
 
Allover said:
Ah OK, and there i was thinking we were calling a spade a shovel!!! :)

Thank you

Now to me the Red Dun would be a light Chesnut
The Palomino a Palomino
Dun Paint a Skewbald
And the buckshin a Dun, though as he does not have a dorsal stripe or zebra marks on the legs!?
Click to expand...

Im with you! :confused:
 
Pip6, Enfys is absolutely correct, your mare will carry the sabino gene, not overo as this gene is not found in pure bred Arabs. Your mare therefore has no chance of producing a Lethal White Syndrome foal.

Pure bred Arabs with sabino markings are eligible for registration with CHAPS(UK). Our pure bred stallion, Picasso Kossack (Kubinec x Popova) is registered as coloured with CHAPS(UK)because the sabino gene he carries is manifested in the large white belly splash. Sabino crossed with sabino carries no risk of a colour gene adversely affecting a foal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11327483@N03/3043911176/http://www.flickr.com/people/11327483@N03/
 
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ok as all you colour experts are here would I be right in thinking my boy is a buckskin. Here is a photo of him in the winter
163ebfa3-1.jpg

and this is him in the summer
21fb5129-1.jpg

From what I know his mum is bay and his dad is the same as him
 
Apologies, got the wrong one, yes she is sabiano, & apparently robiano (please correct me on this if I'm wrong again!) as well as she has roaning through her coat. It's very wierd, as she started with the belly patches & roaning. Now some of the roaning is forming into spaots, about the size of a finger print, all over her (including one on the back of an ear). If any of you know Lesley Dore's Firebird, it's like his spots. They seem to be getting more prolific & growing in size. When I look under her tail where the skin is visible, she has very definate discrete dots of pink skin amongst the dark skin.

My question is, if she passes this gene on when crossed with a black who has no white, & whose foals usually have no white, would it be expressed or become recessive? Would it be black, or black with possibly sabiano & robiano?

By the way, this pure-bred filly is 98% Crabbet, 100% GSB so no major surprise there!
 
The roaning is most likely to be rabicano. The white spots you mention are possibly those referred to as 'birdcatcher' spots. You'll find lots of information on them if you do a search, either on Google or on here.
 
all horses with an overo background should be tested before breeding , LWO can hide on a solid horse , I have a solid black falabella stallion with no white on him , the only clue is that he has two blue eyes , he has tested positive for the Frame pattern (LWO) - all my mares negative

 
pip6 said:
Apologies, got the wrong one, yes she is sabiano, & apparently robiano (please correct me on this if I'm wrong again!) as well as she has roaning through her coat. It's very wierd, as she started with the belly patches & roaning. Now some of the roaning is forming into spaots, about the size of a finger print, all over her (including one on the back of an ear). If any of you know Lesley Dore's Firebird, it's like his spots. They seem to be getting more prolific & growing in size. When I look under her tail where the skin is visible, she has very definate discrete dots of pink skin amongst the dark skin.

My question is, if she passes this gene on when crossed with a black who has no white, & whose foals usually have no white, would it be expressed or become recessive? Would it be black, or black with possibly sabiano & robiano?

By the way, this pure-bred filly is 98% Crabbet, 100% GSB so no major surprise there!
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If your mare doesn't carry the black gene (very few Arabs do) then she can only produce bay to a homozygous black. Homozygous black just means the horse cannot breed red (chestnut).
 
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