Building a house and yard

[sez1]

Hi all, posting this on behalf of my parents as we are all in the process of getting ideas on our yard.

I'm really keen for my parents to build equestrian facilities (They're aiming to put in a 3 horse stable block and paddocks anyway). However, now that I'm 15, i'll be coming up to 17 by the time we move in and the equestrian side of things won't really be used as I'll be away at school.

Does anyone know approximate costs of how much each of these cost; indoor school 60x30; outdoor school 60x30; American barn stabling, standard stable block xc course?
And what sort of return could someone get from it/what could you charge for liveries or rent? My parents aren't horsey but with my mum looking at becoming self employed in the livery and/or the B&B business do you have anythings that must be considered before setting out to build a yard for business purposes?

I have read multiple threads on the hassle and slow slow return of livery yards. So would hiring out facilities be better? Open to suggestions. Please no comments about how I'm 'dreaming' again. This is my parents project and I'm merely looking for equestrian ideas.

Thanks in advance

 

[bollybop]

Are you really keen for your parents to do it, or are they keen to install facilities. ?

 

[bollybop]

And for installation of that lot you'd probably be looking at £50-£100k. At least.

In fact I've just re-read what you want. Doesn't help that you don't say how many stables you want in your two blocks, but scrub the first estimate and replace with £250k plus.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Hiring brings another set of issues: Insurances go a lot higher as you need a much higher cover for damages/indemnity from the paying public.

I do agree with the above, that all 3 arenas would likely set you (your parents) back a goodly sum well into the 6 figure regions.
A well thought & planned arena with good surface for a 60 x 30 is likely to set them back around 80k, with fencing & lighting.

An indoor decent arena is going to be more than double that

Prob best you speak to those who construct these for a living to get real-time prices tho

 

[sez1]

Hiring brings another set of issues: Insurances go a lot higher as you need a much higher cover for damages/indemnity from the paying public.

I do agree with the above, that all 3 arenas would likely set you (your parents) back a goodly sum well into the 6 figure regions.
A well thought & planned arena with good surface for a 60 x 30 is likely to set them back around 80k, with fencing & lighting.

An indoor decent arena is going to be more than double that

Prob best you speak to those who construct these for a living to get real-time prices tho

Thanks. They are keen to install facilities. But they don't know if it'll be better value to go for something big to hire out or small and just keep it private. This will all be included in a mortgage too.

 

[be positive]

It depends on the area but planning for such a big scheme is not that easy especially for a large indoor school that is for business use, we looked at building one and were told no problem for private use but for any outside hire there would be much more red tape involved.
I think for what you have in mind if you can get the planning you would be looking at nearer £500k once everything you need is put in place, the list will be pretty endless, the return will be unlikely to pay enough with no one experienced to actually run it you would have to employ a good manager, renting it out would give a more hassle free return but not without risk.

 

[bollybop]

Have you got the property, or merely looking at the minute?

Did you get your event pony in the end?

 

[WelshD]

I think with your previous form OP that it is sadly clear that you are a bit of a dreamer - not knocking that, we probably all were at your age (to some extent)

If you are serious about opening your own yard and having your non horsey mum work on it full time then I would be asking her to get involved and start getting some quotes in

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

hundreds of thousands to built all that, plus a lot of work!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I think with your previous form OP that it is sadly clear that you are a bit of a dreamer - not knocking that, we probably all were at your age (to some extent)

If you are serious about opening your own yard and having your non horsey mum work on it full time then I would be asking her to get involved and start getting some quotes in

Head-desk, thanks WelshD - I had forgotten the previous form so just checked.

OP, I think perhaps a small block of 3 might be best for starters, daddy might have had a raise but have you asked him about spending such a huge sum?

 

[_GG_]

You'd be looking in the region of £500k to £600k to build all of that to be business compliant and therein lies the problem for your parents.

You say it will be part of the mortgage but in order to do that, it will be very very tricky. Mortgages on the value of something that isn't built is nigh on impossible.

Business mortgages won't go anywhere your parents to cover the yard building costs as they have no equine business experience so unless they can bankroll this themselves, they are going to have to be extremely lucky and clever to be able to get the funding.

 

[blitznbobs]

If you've got the cash ( and unless you've got a lot it's a none starter cos its v difficult to get a mortgage to build a house and almost impossible to get a mortgage on outbuildings and land) then you've got to get planning consent for that little lot too... That would be almost miraculous...

 

[Polos Mum]

Best investment advice is to buy as much land as you can and rent it to someone for sheep. Over time the cost of the land will increase much more than the return on spending £200-£500k on facilities your parents don't personally want.
They aren't making any more land and the laws of supply and demand mean it's going up in value at a good rate - even if you do absolutely nothing to it.
the government need to build something like 250k houses a year for the next 20 years to catch up the housing stock with the population so if you're clever/ lucky and buy somewhere that eventually gets planning permission then you can build all the arenas you'd ever need.

 

[sez1]

Thanks to all the advice on here. I did think that something so huge would cost that much. I think we may settle for a large outdoor or small indoor and a 3-4 block of stables. And as for the comment about my Dads money, well I've only just began to get an insight into what my parents earn and although it's into the 6 figures I haven't had my own pony yet. I didn't ever get my event pony but I'm now riding a couple of horses for an ex 2* Eventer, including a 4yo TB so I'm learning the hard way but I'll get there with all the better experience

 

[WelshD]

I think we may settle for a large outdoor or small indoor and a 3-4 block of stables.

Its a hard life

 

[sez1]

Its a hard life

My parents and I aren't the type of people who have had things handed to on a plate. They've worked extremely hard to get where they are now and believe that I should do the same. I've never been given anything the easy way and I'm glad of it

 

[_GG_]

Its a hard life

That's uncalled for.

 

[popsdosh]

Its a hard life

Lol.

If they are serious and I suspect thats questionable as the eventing pony has not arrived yet .,it will be cheaper to go out and buy one of the many ECs that are already being sold because they cant make money. They will find them a lot easier to get a mortgage on .

 

[sez1]

Business mortgages won't go anywhere your parents to cover the yard building costs as they have no equine business experience so unless they can bankroll this themselves, they are going to have to be extremely lucky and clever to be able to get the funding.

When does something become a business? I know strictly speaking a business is when you are using something purposely to get extra income. But there are a group of about 10-15 paddocks in the village next to mine where I used to ride a pony for someone. The people that own the paddocks have temporary shelters put up and they charge £10 per paddock per week. The thing is, the land use is agriculture I think- not equestrian anyway, and they have no insurance. Just ask for cash every month and don't cover anyone if something gets stolen or goes wrong. So they aren't covered for insurance basically

 

[sez1]

Lol.

If they are serious and I suspect thats questionable as the eventing pony has not arrived yet .,it will be cheaper to go out and buy one of the many ECs that are already being sold because they cant make money. They will find them a lot easier to get a mortgage on .

I was 13 when I first wanted that event pony. I am still extremely determined to get there and I now know that the majority of u18 riders come from extremely wealthy families willing to spend their money on horses and buy their children into eventing. This is something I know is seen unfair but I have to come to terms with it and accept it will do me good in the long run. I never said they were serious about setting up a ful equestrian centre. They aren't good at making money (as I said...) so just looking at sensible options

 

[eggs]

I was 13 when I first wanted that event pony. I am still extremely determined to get there and I now know that the majority of u18 riders come from extremely wealthy families willing to spend their money on horses and buy their children into eventing. This is something I know is seen unfair but I have to come to terms with it and accept it will do me good in the long run. I never said they were serious about setting up a ful equestrian centre. They aren't good at making money (as I said...) so just looking at sensible options

My friend most certainly did not come from a monied background but she took a gamble on buying a talented but very tricky horse for very little money, worked her butt off with him and won a European gold young rider medal

 

[sez1]

My friend most certainly did not come from a monied background but she took a gamble on buying a talented but very tricky horse for very little money, worked her butt off with him and won a European gold young rider medal

What's her name? Good for her- wish that equestrian sports could be something you could get into easily despite having no equestrianism in your family's blood!

 

[_GG_]

When does something become a business? I know strictly speaking a business is when you are using something purposely to get extra income. But there are a group of about 10-15 paddocks in the village next to mine where I used to ride a pony for someone. The people that own the paddocks have temporary shelters put up and they charge £10 per paddock per week. The thing is, the land use is agriculture I think- not equestrian anyway, and they have no insurance. Just ask for cash every month and don't cover anyone if something gets stolen or goes wrong. So they aren't covered for insurance basically

Just because someone else is breaking the law does not make it ok for your parents to do so. You said it yourself, they would run a livery or hire it out...that's running a business. The buildings would be business assets.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thanks to all the advice on here. I did think that something so huge would cost that much. I think we may settle for a large outdoor or small indoor and a 3-4 block of stables. And as for the comment about my Dads money, well I've only just began to get an insight into what my parents earn and although it's into the 6 figures I haven't had my own pony yet. I didn't ever get my event pony but I'm now riding a couple of horses for an ex 2* Eventer, including a 4yo TB so I'm learning the hard way but I'll get there with all the better experience

The hard way will definitely stand you in good stead in the long run have you managed to get out to many comps yet? Would love to see some piccies

 

[bollybop]

Unfortnatly "buying" your way in is the only way to do it in the majority of sports. Admittedly with horses it is more expensive than most, as the "sports equipment" (ie horse) required is some what more expensive than say a top of the range tennis racket.

However, when the cost of coaching required to get to the top level in tennis, swimming etc is taken into account, and the amount of sacrifice parents have to put in, they are essentially "buying" their way into another sport.

I was pretty good at sprinting when I was younger, quite enjoyed it too. Parents weren't interested, and the local athletics club were a bunch of prats. Whilst I would never have won the Olympics, I would have been a county champion. Never got the chance as live in rural area with no support and no chance of getting to compete anywhere. You just have to take it on the chin and accept what is sometimes given to you!

 

[honetpot]

I know someone who's daddy bought every thing, stables, manage, posh lorry, smart horses, but unfortunately although she liked to ride she had not the drive or the determination to be a top sports person. It not what people give you, its what you make of what you have.
I taught both my daughters to ride buying ponies with very little money, tatty lorry, no arena, and we had fun and although I now own my land, stables, I do not wish it was any other way. Its a foolish parent that makes financial decisions based on their teenage children's aspirations.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

To get to the top in most sports nowadays is expensive ......... look at Andy Murray, he spent his early teenage years in training, he had talent and the support of his family who were well versed in the sport. His basic requirements were a racquet and a pair of trainers! There were hundreds of kids who started out with him but have given up as they did not make it. In his sport he was lucky, top players earn megabucks plus high roller sponsors. Horses is another matter.
There are different ways of becoming a professional but it helps if you are born in to it, and are talented and dedicated and lucky and wealthy. The chances of it making money are really not good.

 

[Princess Rosie]

Head-desk, thanks WelshD - I had forgotten the previous form so just checked.

OP, I think perhaps a small block of 3 might be best for starters, daddy might have had a raise but have you asked him about spending such a huge sum?

OP, I realise that you are young and I praise your enthusiasm and certainly do not want to quash your dreams. Have a sit down and look at exactly what it is that you want, as other posters are correct in that your previous form perhaps doesn't give you a lot of credit.

write down your aims and look at the different options to achieve them and give yourself timelines to do things by, that will give you focus and real aims. Unfortunately things don't come to those that just dream and having a dreamers approach to life will leave you gravely disappointed and you will never feel you have achieved any of your dreams.

Once you've written down your aims, you can then "present" them to your parents and if they see that you are focused then they may well help you to achieve some of them. You are so very young and have a long life ahead of you and with hard work you have every chance of achieving your dreams. One thing I would advise is to keep some things close to your chest (such as parents financial position) as they may not wish you to share this and also then when you achieve your goals, you will be given merit for achieving them yourself rather than being seen as having things handed on a plate because you've already made people aware of their financial status (if indeed this is correct, at 15yrs old, I would suspect you may not truly know their financial situation).

In relation to this thread, the outlay far exceeds the potential to earn money and your mother having involvement in a yard with no experience will be fraught with disaster. Build the basics, a stable block, storage and outdoor school and enjoy them for yourselves. Best of luck x

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

OP, I realise that you are young and I praise your enthusiasm and certainly do not want to quash your dreams. Have a sit down and look at exactly what it is that you want, as other posters are correct in that your previous form perhaps doesn't give you a lot of credit.

write down your aims and look at the different options to achieve them and give yourself timelines to do things by, that will give you focus and real aims. Unfortunately things don't come to those that just dream and having a dreamers approach to life will leave you gravely disappointed and you will never feel you have achieved any of your dreams.

Once you've written down your aims, you can then "present" them to your parents and if they see that you are focused then they may well help you to achieve some of them. You are so very young and have a long life ahead of you and with hard work you have every chance of achieving your dreams. One thing I would advise is to keep some things close to your chest (such as parents financial position) as they may not wish you to share this and also then when you achieve your goals, you will be given merit for achieving them yourself rather than being seen as having things handed on a plate because you've already made people aware of their financial status (if indeed this is correct, at 15yrs old, I would suspect you may not truly know their financial situation).

In relation to this thread, the outlay far exceeds the potential to earn money and your mother having involvement in a yard with no experience will be fraught with disaster. Build the basics, a stable block, storage and outdoor school and enjoy them for yourselves. Best of luck x

In my humble opinion: if OP wants to "make it" she would be best advised to find a competition yard locally, one she can get to before and after school and in holidays and go there, ride their horses, as well as her own horses and go out to competion as a groom until she is ready to compete, only this way will she get exprience, education, training and opportunity. Any attempt to make it independantly is still going to be expensive, not a lot of fun, and is setting herself up for failure.
Not to put a damper on enthusiasm, but that cuts no ice in the real world of competition. Just to find one top horse can take years, easier to find one who is good enough to compete locally till she learns the ropes.

 

[Princess Rosie]

Also very good advice we don't know what all of her dreams are, she may well want her parents physical support to get to local yards etc and that can factor into plans.