Building stables of concrete blocks - need steel reinforcing?

[HappyNeds]

We've got planning permission to build our stable block out of concrete blocks, and are thinking the hollow style blocks are stronger than the normal 'house' blocks, but do they need steel rods through the holes and be filled with concrete?

Our builder things that will be major overkill and the blocks will be strong enough on their own - we certainly don't want to spend more money than necessary but we are concerned that a major kick from a stroppy horse might damage the concrete blocks if they are not reinforced.

Those of you with concrete block stables, can you give us your thoughts on how yours are build, and if you've had any problems with them?

Thank you so much, it's so much money we really do need to get it right first time!

 

[Ladyinred]

Our YO built without reinforcing rods and I have lost count of the number of times he has had to repair/replace walls. One of my lads leaned out of his rear window to get a better look at something and the entire wall fell down!

 

[Honey08]

We never had any damage done on our concrete block walls. They are thirty years old, perhaps they were just made better then?

 

[HappyNeds]

Thanks for the info Ladyinred, that's exactly what we are worried about!

Do you know if your YO's stables are built from the 'normal' concrete blocks, or are they the hollow ones?

Only the hollow ones have a much wider footprint, and our builder is saying they will be solid without the reinforcing. We've not started building yet (it starts in January) so we've still got time to figure it out.

 

[bakewell]

Definitely reinforce with rods. We've had a couple of incidents of existing walls proving not to be and very shocked horses falling through having a scratch!

Also there is an agricultural company that specialise in chat window bars and door surround to fit standard concrete blocks, they're really good... very professional finish so the breezeblockiness looks sophisticated!

 

[HappyNeds]

Certainly don't want that to happen!

We were planning to put chat windows bars in the dividing walls to help with the through ventalation also, do you know the name of the company?

It does seem like we do need to reinforce them, it's going to cost so much more as the labour for building it this way takes much longer lifting each block over the rods and then filling with concrete every couple of levels, I was hoping you all would say it would be fine without reinforcing! But I only want to build this once in a lifetime, so it has to be right

 

[Cooperfam]

We built our barn last year with hollow blocks and decided we would do belt and braces and filled with reinforcing bars and concrete. We have big horses and didn't want to risk them having a good rub and damaging themselves of the wall!! Not worth the risk cutting corners.

 

[be positive]

The builder that did mine insisted on deep foundations and reinforcing with rods, his view was that he did not want to be responsible for one of my horses getting injured by a wall coming down, they are certainly solid and worth the expense.

 

[HappyNeds]

Thanks guys, it does sound like we are going to have to go full-out and build them this way...going to be expensive!

Somewhere I read about someone building their stables with blocks that were 'seconds' as they were so much cheaper. Apparently they were still good but with the odd chip on them, but they couldn't be used for residential buildings due to building regs, but as stables aren't subject to building regs they could be used and were much cheaper - I've looked on the internet but can't find anything out about this. Anyone heard of this, and where I might be able to get them from?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The whole yard that I work at is made from concrete breeze blocks *cough*built at 2am by an 80+yo man who drinks nothing but rum*cough* and ok we have a few walls that aren't exactly straight ... but none have fallen down, none have been damaged, none are reinforced. If we have a kicker we put some rubber matting on the wall - more for the horses benefit so they don't jar themselves kicking concrete.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

The walls are strong in compression from above, but are easy to shift with a sideways blow, just try it, You could consider rods to wihther height, agree they need to be strong as I have seen them mve wth a horse leaning on them,

 

[TBB]

All our boxes are built with "cavity" blocks and we have yet to have one move or fall from a horse leaning on them or even getting cast against them and it would never have occured to me that it would happen. I would assume that as long as the foundation is done correctly it would be fine and your builder would be the one to check with. Our boxes, from time to time, also get used for calving and even for getting the odd Limousin bull (big boys) out of the way while we are working with the cows and no problems. There are about 45 boxes in both sheds (barns) and outside and were built at different times by different builders (The oldest would be there since the mid 1970s) and all still standing! Some of the builders used rods into the foundations and some didn't and none filled the cavities with cement.

 

[Honey08]

I know I mentioned it before, but I really do wonder if earlier blocks were simply better made? Our block stables were built in the early 80s. Just about every fence post, gate, and even smaller yard tools such as forks and buckets from that period seem so much better and stronger than the modern ones..

 

[Booboos]

I was livery at a yard where they had converted a barn to stabling and made partitions with hollow blocks and no foundations straight onto the concrete floor - we had a wall down virtually every day. Almost all the horses had managed to push their wall down so it wasn't a problem only with very large or bolshy horses. Very dangerous and they paid for any savings by having to rebuild the walls all the time and with lost revenue from liveries leaving.

 

[BeingKate]

I know I mentioned it before, but I really do wonder if earlier blocks were simply better made? Our block stables were built in the early 80s. Just about every fence post, gate, and even smaller yard tools such as forks and buckets from that period seem so much better and stronger than the modern ones..

I have still got (and still use) my shavings fork from 1992! "Quality for life" well they got that right, think it might outlive me

 

[bakewell]

Here you go OP:
http://www.farmbuildingsdirect.co.uk/stable-fittings.htm

The other thing you might consider if building from scratch is seamed rubber matting taken part way up the wall. You can alternatively use Altro.
Both of these mean a really good hose down is possible and stops urine/ stink leaching into the concrete.

Best of luck.

 

[blackandwhite]

The most horrible injury I have ever seen came from a block wall coming down. It's not worth cutting corners, you'd never forgive yourself if anyone or any horse was hurt.

 

[wench]

Why are solid concrete blocks not being used?

 

[Cahill]

Why are solid concrete blocks not being used?

cos they`re too damn heavy lol.


you can line the concrete walls with plyboard for extra strength but it is also chewable.

ours are made of 9" hollows and no probs.

 

[NeilM]

Sorry, not read the entire thread, so apologies if I am repeating what others have said, but this is my line of work.

I am not a structural engineer, but I work for a block manufacturer.

215 hollow blocks without concrete will not be strong enough. As others have said, they will be easy for a horse to kick through. They can be filled with concrete without steel installed, which would effectively give you a solid concrete wall, but with no mechanical fixing to the slab (other than the bond between the concrete). You may be able to get away with a slab and starter bars (L shaped steel bars with only 800mm to 1m sticking out of the slab).

A slightly cheaper version of hollow blocks and steels would be to have two courses of solid blocks laid, with a void between the two walls. Rebar grid is dropped into the void and then the void filled with concrete.

Both the above tend to have to be laid four courses at a time and then filled with concrete and if you are looking for a ceiling height of around 2.5m, then you are going to need eleven courses of blocks (215h per block plus 10mm of mortar).

The products I sell would be ideal, but would be complete overkill, but if you want to look further into them, please PM me and I will tell you the company and product names.

I would suggest you speak to a few local builders, especially guys who do a lot of agricultural buildings. It might also be worth looking in the yellow pages, or doing a google search for a local structural engineer, who you can just have a five minute chat with over the phone, they are all nice professional guys, like architects, so don't be worried. Best not phone a huge multidiscipline practice though, as the chances of actually speaking to a SE are remote.

I hope that helps a little.

 

[Bobbly]

My stables have been up since '99. They are built of solid block 8/9" wide? on a concrete base, on top of the walls to door height they are topped with a timber frame and cladding and lined internally with ply over the timber frame, the internal walls are the same. They have weathered well, a couple of minor block cracks is all.

 

[OWLIE185]

The best stables that I have had have been built from bricks up to about 3 Feet and then timber. They are as solid as rock and look nice as well.

 

[gmw]

have had our stables 22 years with no reinforcement. If your builder knows what he is doing and gets the 'mix' right for the concrete the walls should be fine.

 

[cptrayes]

This summer one of mine knocked his hip on a doorway and smashed a hollow concrete block into five pieces. He was only grazed, the wall of the barn needed to be rebuilt !

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Ours were built by my OH. They were built with solid concrete blocks double skinned and tied together with tie irons. Walls are therefore 9" thick. They have been up 24 years and never moved. They have a pitched and tiled roof and are rendered.

 

[misskk88]

Better to invest and pay once, than to have to build and pay twice or more for the same job!

 

[CBFan]

I would go for the 'overkill' route IMO... I have known of block walls to be damaged by horses rubbing their bums on them, never mind thrashing around. Better to be safe than sorry!

 

[HappyNeds]

They were built with solid concrete blocks double skinned and tied together with tie irons. Walls are therefore 9" thick. They have been up 24 years and never moved.

Our builder has been on the phone this week and thinks it would be good to build them this way, almost the way you would build a bungalow - so to dig footings (not just a concrete slab), and then build double-skinned solid concrete blocks tied together with the wire ties. He says this would be strong enough. He also says that you can get higher strength rated concrete blocks that we could use. Has anyone else got stables built this way?

Thank you all for your comments guys, we definitely need to get this right first time!

 

[lazybee]

As we're all horse people and are supposed to looking out for each other. I have to add my two penneth.
Your builder seems to be taking the proverbial. He sounds like he wants to make the job a nice little (big) earner. Plus his percentage mark up on all the materials. He'll probably recommend plastering, heating and electrics next : )
Only the doorways and lintels need reinforcement and re-bar. Agree with footings though. I have seven boxes built this way with 150 and 200mm blocks. Even with big heavy horses, no probems at all. As long as your builder knows how to put a building together and selects the correct blocks you will go beyond the requirements needed for a stable.

One thing though, if you do go for the over overkill, you'll have a ready made nuclear bunker : )

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Forgot to add that ours were built with proper concrete footings on a raft basis as some of the land was an infilled pond. Our horses are big and the stables are solid. The joy also is that every spring they get jet washed out and painted with black bituminous paint on the bottom half of the walls and white at the top. Keeps them fresh and clean. They get painted more than my house does!!