Building up? A 'straight' addition needed to current feed...

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Llanali

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Hi,

I wonder if you might be able to assist me. I have a 16.1 ish mare, ISH, competing at around 1/1.05m BS, prelim/novice dressage, and a light bit of hunting when fit. She is 6 years old, pretty fit, but has had 7 weeks no hacking due to disease precautions so not *that* fit, but we are back on it now.

She currently has three feeds- breakfast and dinner the same- 1 scp chaff, 2/3scp soaked molassed sugar beet, half scp rolled and bruised oats. Lunch is just chaff and beet with peppermint flavouring to line her tummy a bit!

She is fed limestone flour to compensate for the mineral imbalance in oats, though I understand sugar beet also will do this.

She looks lean and muscled, and finally we have sorted the energy levels to be exactly where I need them. She is NOT a lively/fizzy horse, and I think you would seriously struggle to make it 'hot'.

She is also on hayledge/hay mixed nets.

So- she is just beginning to look a bit too lean, and with more hunting on the cards, adn given that we are just in January, I would like to put a bit more on her, and assist her topline build up.

I prefer straights, but will consider mixes. I do not favour Allen and Page personally.

Would barley rings be a useful addition for a little more condition? Has anyone any better suggestions?

Chorizo and stilton salad, with olive oil and balsamic dressing on offer!!! Thanks.
 
Micronised Linseed for condition/topline - I would also put her on a good vit/min supplement or balancer.
 
Ah! Fabulous. I'm assuming if it's micronised I don't need to boil? I remember feeding linseed jelly (?) as a kid....
 
Micronised linseed is already heat-treated - you can add it straight to the feed.

Any reason that she gets a mix of hay and haylage? As if not, I would give her as much haylage as she can eat. Obviously check teeth also.

A vit/min supplement or balancer would be a good idea to add to the straights - most balancers have the advantage of a probiotic yeast which can help ensure that the good bacteria in the gut can make the most of the food that the horse eats, therefore helping maintain condition.
 
She has a vit and min lick block, which she enjoys- is this unlikely to be enough? It's a low sugar one, and she doesn't wear shoes, so the linseed should help there shouldn't it too?

TGM a mix because otherwise the hayledge seems a bit rich and her tummy can't tolerate it without serious runs!

Thanks everybody for their advice. I'm going to have a word with my merchants about linseed- how much would you all be feeding?
 
I feed linseed and my mare (TBxWB) gets 2 x 15g scoops in each feed and is fed am and pm. I started on half a scoop AM and PM then built her up to see if it affected her or how her tummy reacted to it. was up to the above dosage within 3 weeks :)

I fed barley to my mare and she did well on it but took her off it as shes on box rest, wasnt gaining but I was worried it was contributing to her stressyness (High starch no exercise) so switched to linseed, wont be going back to barley when she comes back to work.

Hope this helps :)
 
Micronised linseed is great stuff, and you can feed quite a lot of it. If she's already having 3 feeds, why not add some oats to the lunch, as well?
 
It seems a weird diet for a competition horse, I assume she is doing 60 minutes hard work per day, and maybe a few hacks at a good pace every week in addition.
I would be feeding hay/haylage in three lots, a big net overnight, and small ones during the day.
Three feeds per day, biggest one at night. I would be feeding a competition mix with oats which is balanced, rather than trying to "do it yourself", chaff from Dengie to prevent bolting and to line the tummy. If she need more oomph use a chaff with alfalfa, if this suits her.
If you want to stick with your straight diet, ask Equimins for advice on the use of their complete minerals,, they sell Micronised linseed in 10kg bags, and you can put her on 100 gms pretty much straight away.
 
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Llanali said:
She has a vit and min lick block, which she enjoys- is this unlikely to be enough?
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That is fine for vit/mins - you have to decide whether she needs a probiotic as well, which will not be supplied by a lick. As she has a tendency to loose droppings and is not maintaining weight as well as you would like then a probiotic may be beneficial. As she is getting vit/mins from the lick, then a balancer may be overkill, so you could give something like Yea-sacc which is a probiotic on its own.
 
Try to feed the same in each feed . The problem with having a different,low energy lunch is that it affects the eficiency of digestion in the small intestine. Even better would be dividing it all into more feeds but that isnt always practical. I would add a small amount of oats to the lunch . Forget barley it causes too many problems for a lot of horses.The idea (proven experimentaly by Tisserand )is that by trickle feeding a starch energy source with the fibre, the gut bacteria are able to break down the fibre faster and more efficiently . Effectively its getting up to 25% more energy without having to feed extra.
 
Festive Beastie said:
I feed linseed and my mare (TBxWB) gets 2 x 15g scoops in each feed and is fed am and pm. I started on half a scoop AM and PM then built her up to see if it affected her or how her tummy reacted to it. was up to the above dosage within 3 weeks :)

I fed barley to my mare and she did well on it but took her off it as shes on box rest, wasnt gaining but I was worried it was contributing to her stressyness (High starch no exercise) so switched to linseed, wont be going back to barley when she comes back to work.

Hope this helps :)
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err yes, are you using the tiny blue scoop you get with minerals?, if so, that is a tiny amount to be honest it wont't affect the conditioning of a 550kg horse, but may help with gleam in the coat.
 
Mike007 said:
Try to feed the same in each feed . The problem with having a different,low energy lunch is that it affects the eficiency of digestion in the small intestine. Even better would be dividing it all into more feeds but that isnt always practical. I would add a small amount of oats to the lunch . Forget barley it causes too many problems for a lot of horses.The idea (proven experimentaly by Tisserand )is that by trickle feeding a starch energy source with the fibre, the gut bacteria are able to break down the fibre faster and more efficiently . Effectively its getting up to 25% more energy without having to feed extra.
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That makes sense to me, in racing we basically feed the same every day split in to three feeds, though the pm feed has any additives and oats added to their main meal thus feeding individually, the horses get a peck of hay after exercise and a big net at tonight so in fact they are more trickle fed than most happy hackers.
 
Miss L Toe-
Thank you for your detailed response. However, why is it a wierd diet?
Also- your post..... Your point about the hay/hayledge nets- that IS what she gets. Obviosuly I didn't write that she had nets throughout the day as I thought that no one would think I fed forage only at night. She has three feeds a day- as I said in my op and as you recommended in your subsequent post ??? Her feeds are equal sizes, so not one is bigger to feed at night..... Why our of interest would I do that? :)
She has chaff as bulk to stop bolting already as I said... And I specifically said she did not need more oomph?? So no need for alfalfa- also, it has no effect above normal chaff on her sadly. I certainly agree it is a good place to start for most needing more whizz!

I prefer not to feed mixes as I like to be able to change things little by little according to work etc. I also do not like what is added to many manufactured feeds.

Sorry, you advice is very sound, but does not seem relevant to my initial post?
I will speak to equimins though- great idea so thanks!

Excellent point about feeding the scoop of oats thought the day- 1/3 rd in each then! Thank you to those who suggested this- sorry phone won't let me quote. I never knew that.

Nocturnal- I am
Loathe to add more oats- the energy is perfect. Are they a decent build up? I have never personally found them to act as a build up agent as such :)
 
TGM- thank you. That's helpful; I will look into Yee Sacc. I hve used pink powder on a pro active basis before. Our hayledge is very rich- it upset all of our horses at first, and mine still cannot handle as much of it as I would like to feed forage wise! Thus the mix.
 
Also Miss L Toe- you said her diet was very odd...... But your pm said oats really were the best thing? And you recommended chaff and hay/hayledge, so what is odd? I am confused by it to be hOnest.

Thank you for your PM- I can reply at home :)
 
Llanali said:
Nocturnal- I am
Loathe to add more oats- the energy is perfect. Are they a decent build up? I have never personally found them to act as a build up agent as such :)
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My personal experience is that oats are a good feed for weight gain. They're lower in starch and higher in fibre than other cereals, but still have a good level of DE. DE = calories, calories = weight gain :). I haven't found that they fizz horses up if fed with sufficient fibre, but perhaps that's not everybody's experience. Just my two penney's worth :).
 
Nocturnal- thanks! perhaps I have never fed them in sufficient quantities to add weight before- this is the ONLY horse I have ever had which I think I could stuff and not send it dangerously wild!

The higher in fibre and lower in starch is why I like feeding oats as a cereal particularly to be honest. And why I think it probably suits my mare barefoot- and her being not shod is another reason I am wary of alfafa, never fed it when barefoot so couldn't say for definite.

I'm learning lots on this so thank you all!
 
Festive Beastie said:
I feed linseed and my mare (TBxWB) gets 2 x 15g scoops in each feed and is fed am and pm. I started on half a scoop AM and PM then built her up to see if it affected her or how her tummy reacted to it. was up to the above dosage within 3 weeks :)
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Miss L Toe said:
err yes, are you using the tiny blue scoop you get with minerals?, if so, that is a tiny amount to be honest it wont't affect the conditioning of a 550kg horse, but may help with gleam in the coat.
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I have to agree with Miss L Toe, 60 gms is a very small amount to be feeding if you are aiming for condition. :)

My 15.2 (connie x TB, approx 500kg) is on 500gms a day.
 
I feed my big stressy hunter mare this twice a day:-

Scoop of Hi Fi Lite Chaff
Half scoop sugar beet
4 tea mugs of linseed pellets (I don't really use tea mugs, but this is a good approximation of the amount)
4 tea mugs of split peas
Recommended dosage of balancer from ummm global herbs

plus per day, and on top of grass, she gets about 28lbs of hay.

When the hunting season starts, she tends to shed weight just by breathing. At which point she gets a third meal a day of 50% of the above.
 
I love debittered soy flour :D It has really helped improve the top line in my OTTB, he has changed shape and his coat is looking fabulous.

He gets twice a day:
2kg Lucerne Chaff
1.5kg whole oats
1/4C soy flour
Mineral mix

You could also try adding an oil, Rice Bran oil is excellent, as it is a slow release and contains Omega and Amino Acids that assist in muscle building and weight gain.
 
Rosie Round The Christmas Tree and Lyle- Thank you!

I've never even heard of debittered soy flour to be entirely honest! Also, would you be happy to tell me what the split peas are for? I have heard of them but never used/nor seen anyone use.
 
Llanali said:
Rosie Round The Christmas Tree and Lyle- Thank you!

would you be happy to tell me what the split peas are for? I have heard of them but never used/nor seen anyone use.
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Rosie is allergic to all grains and grasses, so I can't feed her a regular mix. I went to the feed merchant/mixer man to get a sample of each straight that went into their basic mix and split peas is one of those. It's a high level protein that she's not allergic to. And it's cheap too! :)
 
Do they still make Baileys no 1? I used to use that to add condition and it was good stuff but we are talking years ago here!
 
Few things I would suggest:

Good feed balancer (my personal preference is Topspec).

There are also other things you can add to a feed to help them build up:
Baileys outshine
Equivite Bodybuilder
Champion Milkpellets
Oil
 
Hi all, sorry to jump in on this issue, my 32 year old has dropped off a huge amount in last month and wont eat baileys outshine, so will try some of your other suggestions although always did well on barley rings/pasture mix/sugar beet and oil before. Any other suggestions as she is quite a fussy eater.
 
horseygossip said:
Hi all, sorry to jump in on this issue, my 32 year old has dropped off a huge amount in last month and wont eat baileys outshine, so will try some of your other suggestions although always did well on barley rings/pasture mix/sugar beet and oil before. Any other suggestions as she is quite a fussy eater.
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Nawwwww,32, I love the senior citizens of the horse world. I am sure he /she didnt get to be that age without you taking great care,and so I am almost certainly preaching to the converted,have you checked the teeth in the last few months. They can go downhill fast (teeth) at that age.maybe some soaked oats would help. Anyway give your horse a hug from me.:)
 
Another vote for linseed - I get large sacks delivered from Charnwood Milling as this is the cheapest way.

I feed a mugful twice a day and if I need more weight, then will go up to 3 mugs a day. I have a 14.3 gypsy cob and a 16.3 clydesdale. They get grass chaff, alfa chaff and a bit of speedibeet plus brewyers yeast and black sunflower seeds, and the linseed really makes a difference to how they keep the weight.

I have also had very good results with Spillars Conditioning Cubes - did not even heat up my very sensitive warmblood.

Finally I can recommend Equimins prio-bio, not expensive and made a world of difference to my old TB and also my gypsy mare who could drop weight and have a runny tummy if anything was changed, ie hay after being at grass for a month.

If money is not an object, then Equilbra 500 is also very good, if I need to give my cob a bit more topline and muscle for showing, I feed him for a month or so this and conditioning cubes and he is a different horse. It also used to do the trick for my TBs.
 
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