Bullying is NOT training.....

Seen this several times, each time I cannot believe how stupid he is. I wish people would wake up and see him for what he really is !
 
I hadn't seen it before tonight - it is just incredibly, what an absolute idiot he is! Even without the helpful captions :p you can see how uncomfortable that poor dog is :(
 
twiggy2 said:
the only thing he says that I agree with is that dogs need to be physically challenged before you can expect change
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It's true that sometimes challenging dogs is the way to install not only compliance, but an acceptance of our authority. The video in question has been posted on here before, and short of reviving controversy, I fail to see the point to it. I also fail to see just what CM was trying to achieve. It was obvious from virtually the outset that the dog was going to react and that there was going to be one of two results, and that CM was most likely to get himself bitten was also quite clear. He accepted that the responsibility was his, and whilst barely saying so, I suspect that he felt rather silly!

Generally I believe that CM has led the way for many to accept and understand that there are those dogs which need the have the question of boundaries and authority installed, and there's no question that he has his own methods, methods I would add which I generally consider to be right. 'Opening the conversation' with dogs which are as the Labrador in question, with a full on face to face confrontation, would be unlikely to work, in my opinion. The situation could have been filmed and approached once compliance and acceptance had been established by starting with the basics and having a rapport with the dog. Bowling in with such an approach was done for the sake of the television camera and was always a short route to failure. The problem of course, for CM or those that followed him with that animal, was that the dog having won Round 1, the future for that particular handler, wasn't that bright!!

It was, without question, a silly approach, but to discard CM and his approach to dogs which as adults have major problems, and upon one admittedly silly event, is a mistake. His successes are legion and he has generally been highly successful. Considering his previous successes, and those who criticise him, I wonder just how successful his critics are, in real life, and with such dogs. To judge a highly skilled man because of one stupid event, and to discard his previous results is a rather narrow minded approach.

That's what I think!

Alec.
 
twiggy2 said:
the only thing he says that I agree with is that dogs need to be physically challenged before you can expect change
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As in excersised till they actually have burnt off enough excess energy to be able to engage their brain and have a change of being less reactive, feel the desire to rest and sleep and experience the feel good factor from endorphins.

from what I can remember about the lab in the video, the family had or were expecting a baby and were worried about the dog and the child, for me dogs and children need to be managed as a combination and CM would have been better give the owners some direction in how to do that-separate dog for feeding or when child is eating, not leaving them together or having them together in a confined space etc etc. all he did was confirm that the dog would when provoked and intimidated would issue what could be a very serious bite to a child. the dog went to stay with CM at his training centre if I remember rightly
 
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Alec Swan said:
It was, without question, a silly approach, but to discard CM and his approach to dogs which as adults have major problems, and upon one admittedly silly event, is a mistake. His successes are legion and he has generally been highly successful. Considering his previous successes, and those who criticise him, I wonder just how successful his critics are, in real life, and with such dogs. To judge a highly skilled man because of one stupid event, and to discard his previous results is a rather narrow minded approach.
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Well put.
 
twiggy2 said:
CM would have been better give the owners some direction in how to do that-separate dog for feeding or when child is eating, not leaving them together or having them together in a confined space etc etc.
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That's not really solving the issue, though.

Simply separating the dog from human interaction isn't going to fix the problem, it's simply sweeping it under the rug.

I'd be bitterly disappointed if I paid I professional and the only advice they had for me was 'buy a baby-gate'.
 
SpringArising said:
That's not really solving the issue, though.

Simply separating the dog from human interaction isn't going to fix the problem, it's simply sweeping it under the rug.

I'd be bitterly disappointed if I paid I professional and the only advice they had for me was 'buy a baby-gate'.
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it is not removing the dog from human interaction, it is keeping the child safe and the dog from situation that increase anxiety-my first dog did not trust young kids and when my daughter was young the dog has his space in the kitchen where she could not see him, so if she was hanging over the stair gate watching me he did not feel cornered or exposed, but in the garden, out for a walk or when were sitting doing something together then the dog would be with us, he would not ever have done anything unprovoked but I could not trust a crawling baby or young child not to do something that may have provoked him.

it enables everyone to be safe and have time to work on the issues the dog had but even with all the work in the world I would not trust that dog around young children and food-why would you take the risk?-I don't see providing a safe place for a dog as punishment nor do I see supervised interaction as punishment or removing a dog from a situation that may provide a trigger for a bite as punishment, for me removing the dog from those situations is as much about keeping my dog safe (from euthanasia) as it is about keeping people safe. my dogs are left when I leave the house daily it is part of life, I aim to give my dogs skills that mean they can live alongside humans in a mutually beneficial way and part of that is ensuring they feel safe in their own company for what ever reason and whenever it is needed.
 
twiggy2 said:
And what CM did fixed the problem?
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What CM actually did was to reinforce the dog's view that the animal was top dog. For CM, the battle of wills, was lost!

The dog's immediate reaction following the attack (or its defence!), was interesting. No one, no matter the progress, who owned that dog would inflict it upon a very small child, if they had any sense. EVERY dog, even though apparently corrected, will revert to type, given the opportunity.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
What CM actually did was to reinforce the dog's view that the animal was top dog. For CM, the battle of wills, was lost!

The dog's immediate reaction following the attack (or its defence!), was interesting. No one, no matter the progress, who owned that dog would inflict it upon a very small child, if they had any sense. EVERY dog, even though apparently corrected, will revert to type, given the opportunity.

Alec.
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He wasn't a small child though he was an adult and I wouldn't keep such a dog under any circumstances. Any dog that bites should only get to do it once.
 
twiggy2 said:
any adult that provokes and threatens a dog to that extent whilst blocking routes for the dog to retreat deserves to get bitten
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I've had a lot of dogs (all being Bull breeds, at that) and NONE of them would have or have ever bitten under ANY circumstance. I'd be flabbergasted if any of my dogs bit anyone, no matter who they were or what they were doing.

bonny said:
He wasn't a small child though he was an adult and I wouldn't keep such a dog under any circumstances. Any dog that bites should only get to do it once.
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Agree with this. I don't care what the circumstances are.
 
twiggy2 said:
any adult that provokes and threatens a dog to that extent whilst blocking routes for the dog to retreat deserves to get bitten
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To have reached that stage the dog must have had a history of aggression so not a one off and whatever the scenario looks to me like a dog that will bite again, why take the risk ?
 
Well it certainly was not his finest hour .
At one time I watched his show a lot because I was not sleeping and it was on late at night he certainly was interesting to watch with dogs.
And one thing I really think he has right is the importance he places on both mental and physical exercise .
 
Holly was taken from the family and 'rehabilitated' by CM. The follow up show shows the dog approaching her food bowl and then terrified if the pretend hand is put in the bowl. It is vey obvious that an adversive method has been used, probably a shock collar, judging by the intense reaction.

The easy way to cure food guarding is to start with an empty bowl and at meal times add a little at a time, so the dog see's you as the giver of food, not the one who might take it away. Also train the dog to swap, so if he ever has something of high value ( bone etc) that you need to take off him, then he is used to you swapping it for something equally high value, so giving up anything does not become a conflict.

I would never allow any child near a dog when he is eating, regardless of how reliable you think the dog is.

This is one of many CM failures, but the first where he has been caught saying ' did not see that coming' when it is pretty obvious to everyone else. Luckily his shows are becoming less and less popular.
 
Teaselmeg said:
……..

The easy way to cure food guarding is to start with an empty bowl and at meal times add a little at a time, so the dog see's you as the giver of food, not the one who might take it away. …….. .
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You're entirely right, but the object of the film piece was for the dog to accept dominance. It ended up as a role reversal, and the dog won!! I would think that privately he felt rather silly. The warning signs even though subtle, WERE there, and a man of his vast experience should have recognised those signs, he didn't and he was bitten! :D

Alec.
 
twiggy2 said:
any adult that provokes and threatens a dog to that extent whilst blocking routes for the dog to retreat deserves to get bitten
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Absolutely this - and to say that it (the whole sorry saga) proved to the dog that it was top dog shows a total lack of understanding how dogs think and operate.

God it makes me grateful that it was me who adopted my extremely food-aggressive little greyhound 6 years ago......and my extremely nervous and underconfident lurcher 11 years ago..... they have had happy and fulfilled lives when I think the modern approach would have ensured that they were both PTS :(
 
bonny said:
To have reached that stage the dog must have had a history of aggression so not a one off and whatever the scenario looks to me like a dog that will bite again, why take the risk ?
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from what I remember (I did watch the full programe a while ago) the dog had not bitten before but had growled and shown teeth
 
Served him right entirely, but I actually quite rate the guy normally. I absolutely disagree when I see the owner using a prong collar and CM ignoring this, but he talks a lot of sense most of the time. We took on board some of his ideas many years ago, but it was more to do with exercise and not discipline.
 
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