Burghley XC - has everyone forgotten what "a coffin canter" is?

By basics I mean basic fence knowledge - 4* riders have SO much to have to take in these days and just watching them set up and ride tricky distances and angles proves how much they put into the training of themselves and their horses - HOWEVER, I do think that sometimes the basics - ie a half coffin - are forgotten. Whether that is a popular view or not, it is how I see it. Most botch ups happen on simple fences rather than tricky combinations and I think that speaks volumes - it also (usually) becomes clear which horses hunt and which do not!
 
Is there not the possibility that it was actually a difficult fence, and that's why it rode badly?
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yeah totally KatB I can see both sides
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I never said anthing about basics not being covered
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I actually thought it was strange to have a half coffin at that level, but it proved to be testing enough, and caught people out from a competitive point of view, that is a positive thing..
 
The fence in question hed a frangible pin, i think sometimes it makes a bit of a differance to how it is ridden.
I don't think it was a nice fence at all (for the record) far too many horses caught themselves and you could see it in them for the next few fences.
 
i didn't realise it was a frangible fence. interesting.
i still don't think the distance between the fence and the ditch, even if long, would be enough to warrant riding at it as fast as some (not all! some rode it beautifully!) did. horses will shuffle over a ditch, as they don't need to gain any height, and rarely trip in it.
i wish i'd never started this now! for the record, i think a lot of fantastic riding went on round the course, lots of horses, some of them very tricky, were quite beautifully ridden and learned a lot from the experience.
it was just that some of the riding of this particular fence surprised me, and i wanted to know if i was the only one!
 
when i get another superdooper horse, hopefully, with a lot of luck and a really tough sound horse, if i can ever find one.
i found a mega one and he failed the vet, then another mega one and he also failed the vet. *despondent face*
good things come to those who wait...
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this is again a really thick comment...but is that the reason they went a bit faster into it cos if they hit it, it would collapse...also do u get penalties for hitting it?
 
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when i get another superdooper horse, hopefully, with a lot of luck and a really tough sound horse, if i can ever find one.
i found a mega one and he failed the vet, then another mega one and he also failed the vet. *despondent face*
good things come to those who wait...
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if i happen to stumble across a gr8 horse like ur looking for...i will tell u!!!hopefully it will pass the vet...u have had such rotten luck!!!when was ur last 4*???
 
No, i feel that a lot of riders misjudged the speed,however i do belive it came after a long gallop(which wont have helped)
I think also the way that the ground dropped away after the fence was far more than the camera made it,funny distance also(was it a bounce or a stride?) in distance terms thats 10ft differance! where they riding to make up distance? one can only wonder! A short distance to a ditch leaves a horse prone to leaving its hindleg in it(which we saw)
All i can say with any certainty is that it was a horrible fence that was unnecessarly punnishing on horses and i hope we don't see it again.
 
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All i can say with any certainty is that it was a horrible fence that was unnecessarly punnishing on horses and i hope we don't see it again.

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See I would have said it was a standard stockpile fence that no one should have had bother over LOL! However, I wasn't there in person and totally agree with the comments regarding what we see on TV is not what is there in RL.
 
I've thought this a couple of times when watching Badminton & other events in the last couple of years. Didn't watch Burghley, this year but I'm not suprised to read this. It's suprising given how technical courses have become and that riders seem to have become so much more better on the flat these days....
 
There was a decent drop after the first rail down to the ditch. Its hard to tell the undulations unless you actually saw it, and it was quite steep.
 
i think that observation is fair enough, its not 'slagging off'. and BB2 is getting a bit unfair. clearly the fence had a more difficult distance, landing or whatever than anyone supposed innadvance or else after the first few had been round word would have filtered back and people would have approached differently. there would have been much discussion on all the difficult fences amongst teh riders and trainers that is why they walk three or four times. i would lke to point out there area fair few trainers who have never competed at that level by the way and you know i can name names if i have too.
however, it doesnt change the fact that there were several examples of bad riding and personally i believe it is because of te decline in hunting, the propensity of designers for trying to think for the riders esp at lower levels, and the general 'pc' attude that is as much to blame as anything. someone said if the third elemnt was there it would have been ridden differently and they are right but what no-one hasmentioned is that the horses would have SEEN it differently and known there was (at least) one other element.
and BB2, kat b and all, you are forgetting there was an alternative at that fence and after the first few hd bad jumps somepeople could have gone that way, but the fact that they did not even when right out of contention backs up someones point (maybe weezy's) that there was an element of blase its only a half coffin type thinking.
consequently i do not think a bit of critism is unjustified and if read by those concerned might make just one more 'thinking' rider and tht cant be bad can it?
 
yes, i think you get eliminated if you hit it hard enough to collapse a frangible pin, because the thinking is that you would have fallen. hitting it side-on won't collapse it, it has to be a major downward (i.e. falling) force.
 
Think it was a clever fence and did it's job perfectly.

Riders are so so good at accuracy now a days that the course designers have to think up other ways of getting some to have penalties and I think putting in this unusual old fashioned fence was a clever move and did what it was meant to do.

The commentators on the telly did mention that perhaps a few needed to practise one at home incase it's there again next year.
 
Nope definitly not me I was sat on the sofa at home and must have some how managed to miss that bit.

I would also never ever dress all in pink! A pink top perhaps
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I am in awe!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have ridden round a 4*??!!!! Where! When! You can't say that and not give us all the juicy details!!!!!! You MUST show us some photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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How exciting!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lucinda Green was writing in the Telegraph this morning and made these very same comments that you have all said.
She mentioned the 'coffin canter' and how badly that fence was ridden. She said the riders seemed to expect their horses to bounce the coffin instead of steadying them so they could see it.
Do you think XC is now so technical that riding cross country has been forgotten?
The commentator did mention one rider who hunted her horse all winter and she must have been better for the experience.
 
Yes, as I said above (somewher) I do think that there is so much technical riding required that the old, solid skills (the basics) are being forgotten. Hunting should be mandatory really
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Burghley still a test for riders like no other
By Lucinda Green

The Land Rover Burghley Horse Trials presented one of the biggest cross-country challenges seen for years.

Fox-Pitt jumps to fourth Burghley title
Mark Phillips has designed a fair course but it was at the top end of four stars - the highest degree of difficulty. Built with habitual care by Phillip Herbert and his team, this course dimensionally stretched the horse's ability to comprehend his rider's instructions and hold a line through all kinds of intended distractions at nearly every one of the 32 obstacles.

advertisementGone are the days when neither horse nor rider had faced up to anything like the test set on the big day and the only thing for it was to keep kicking on. Fundamentally that is, at times, still vital now but the finesse has become finite.

Over years the horse will gather and store information, like a computer, starting with questions on the cross-country course presented at trottable height. At first, like a child in his early days with books, it takes the horse a long time to read a fence as he approaches. By the time he is ready to take on Burghley he is a speed reader, capable of sussing problems and reacting at lightning speed - but first he has to see the problem.

Yesterday, trouble was wrought principally from riders who, for whatever reason - and there were plenty of them - were unable to give their horses that necessary moment of focus.

Fence eight, the Invesco Options, was an old-fashioned 'coffin', where the rails concealed, until the last second, a ditch a short distance away on the landing side.

Here was proof that many riders had not learnt one of the most critical gears required in riding cross-country, namely, 'the coffin canter'.

For some reason, I believe many perceive their horses must jump the rails and then immediately bounce out over the ditch without putting in a little, 'let me look' shuffle.

This perception made them ride into it in a stronger gear, not giving their horses time to check it out and resulting in many awkward trips.
 
I think weezy put it correctly that this is a "standard, stockpile fence" - and I think that particularly with the 3rd element (i.e. a 2nd set of rails after the ditch) missing the riders treated this as more of a 'breather' fence then perhaps they should have and that accounted for the way they approached and rode the obstacle.

on the surface it 'appeared' to be a more simple fence than some of the others (e.g. leaf pit to skinny) and so whilst every fence has to be jumped this one looked perhaps less technically difficult than many of the others
 
I commented on the way this jump was being ridden to my father. I felt the riders, as Lucinda Green said, weren't letting the horses see the ditch. The came in too fast and were too forward on landing. I would have liked to see them sit up in a more defensive position for the second element.
 
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