burghley (yes again :p ) the one i thought you'd all be talking about...............

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angelish

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mark todd :)

how did he get away with that at the hedges in the pond ?
surely that was 20p (E because he carried on ) or maybe not as he was inside the flag ,but only because his horse moved the flag :p

sorry i can't find the pic's of it head on but they were on the live H&H tx thingy if anyone else can find them

ive just gotten around to watching the BBC coverage and i still can't make my mind up, although it doesn't really matter now as they didn't pull him up
either way i wouldn't of liked to be the fence judge in that situation

his round
http://www.burghley.tv/vod/portal/?sid=m2mnosv875741nvu34n1h363r3

and the bbc coverage is on here if anyone missed it :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b014fg1h/Burghley_Horse_Trials_2011/
 
The rule is, if the horse's head and shoulders go between the flags, it is allowed, if they don't, it is penalised. The fence judge initially E him, and the TV cameras showed various angles, one which showed he should be E and one which showed he might not be, but fortuitously there was a photographer who took a series of head on shots, and after much discussion the ground jury decided he was ok. I think that's the gist of it.
 
A similar thing happened to WFP at Gatcombe with one but he was E'd, though I don't think that they had the video footage etc unfortunately and from where I was standing I personally didn't feel that the fence judge could have seen particularly well.
 
Anyone remember (years ago when I was in nappies!) Mark Todd riding Face the music (i think) was eliminated at burghley for missing flag on the roads and tracks, but wasn't picked up until after the xc where he had jumped clear and inside the time.
So in my eyes that kinda equals it out!!
And MARK TODD is TOTALLY AMAZING!!!!!!!! (but honestly noway was that horse between the flags!!)
 
SpottedCat said:
The rule is, if the horse's head and shoulders go between the flags, it is allowed, if they don't, it is penalised. The fence judge initially E him, and the TV cameras showed various angles, one which showed he should be E and one which showed he might not be, but fortuitously there was a photographer who took a series of head on shots, and after much discussion the ground jury decided he was ok. I think that's the gist of it.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. A friend of mine was sitting at the fence judge's feet, exactly in line with the brush, and took perfect head-on shots which clearly showed the horse's head and shoulders (and Mark's!) going the correct side of the flag. (He did say its quarters probably didn't, but those don't count fortunately!) The photographer to his left, and the one to his right, both had shots which you could have argued about, and the Fence Judge initially said E'd, but the head-on photos proved it to the Ground Jury...
I agree, karma at last for being (unjustifiably?!) E'd on the Roads and Tracks years ago on Bertie Blunt, when he would have been in the lead after xc. :( :( :(
 
tiggs said:
This is the head on picture sequence
http://monty-white.posterous.com/ scroll down. I am glad I didn't have to make the decision
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting those - very interesting!! I'm glad that I didn't have to make the decision either. There is a lot missing between pics two and three, so its still not clear! It looks as though the horse knocked the flag down with it's shoulder, so technically the shoulders only passed through because the flag had leaned.. I'm sure that his quarters didn't go through - his ribs didn't! He was lucky! That said, MT didn't look the slightest bit hesitant, so he probably noted that the shoulders had passed through the flags!
 
Brilliant pics. If you take it that the whip was down his shoulder and that is clearly shown in front of the flag when the flag was still standing upright then Milo definitely got his head and shoulders between the flags as per the rules. The rest of him just didn't need to make much effort to jump it though:D. Canny of MT to know it was ok.
 
The rule is that the head and shoulders must pass the correct side of the flag. There is no rule to cover a situation where the horse moves the flag!!! In this case he pushed the flag to the right so was able to partially avoid the fence but stay the correct side of the flag. All skinny fences have to have flags that fall away for safety reasons so there is no easy answer.

The case of William at Gatcombe was different because the flag was knocked down by the horse's chest and went between his front legs so his shoulder clearly went the wrong side.
 
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