Bussard Control

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mtj

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Just heard this story on Radio 4 and I am appalled.

Are there any petitions I can sign against these measure? Obviously I will write to my MP.

Just in case anyone is wondering, yes I do live in the countryside and yes I am aware of the harm caused by game birds to ground nesting species.

Cameron and co can all sod off if they are expecting my vote with this attitude.
 
err, the article concentrates on buzzards which are predating on tree roosting pheasants, not ground nesting game birds like grouse. Game birds are defined under the Wildlife and Countryside Act as any pheasant, partridge, grouse (moor game), black (heath) game or ptarmigan.
Obviously most gamekeepers don't want ANY birds of prey near their pheasants, but due to current laws they are not allowed to shoot them, which is at least preferable to poisoning which is non species specific.
The UK Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) is to research ways of keeping buzzards from targeting the game birds???. are they going to train them to eat heather? :rolleyes:
Defra says it wants to maintain a "balance between captive and wild birds"???????? what does this mean, they want more buzzards kept in cages?

The RSPB said the idea of taking wild buzzards into captivity or destroying their nests was "totally unacceptable"............... I agree.

I am totally gobsmacked by DEFFRA wasting hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money on a flawed idea which is quite rightly, considered to be unacceptable by the experts in bird management and conservation.
 
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With regards to ground nesting, I was referring to birds such as Skylarks. I understand pheasants are an issue with this species.
 
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err, the article concentrates on buzzards which are predating on tree roosting pheasants, "

No, it is the buzzards targeting pheasant release pens, the pheasants are hatched and reared commercially the shoot usually buying them off heat putting them into pens where they are fed, when big enough the pen is opened up for the birds to free range, coming back to be fed. Obviously there is a massive food station for raptors, 100's of young pheasants.
Not sure i agree with the plan, i think the shoots should rear more pheasants to allow for slightly higher losses, raptors will only take so many and it will be over a fairly short time scale, until the birds are too big to be taken. Buzzards are highly territorial so nesting numbers within a certain area will be fairly static.
 
jrp204 said:
"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
err, the article concentrates on buzzards which are predating on tree roosting pheasants, "

No, it is the buzzards targeting pheasant release pens, the pheasants are hatched and reared commercially the shoot usually buying them off heat putting them into pens where they are fed, when big enough the pen is opened up for the birds to free range, coming back to be fed. Obviously there is a massive food station for raptors, 100's of young pheasants.
Not sure i agree with the plan, i think the shoots should rear more pheasants to allow for slightly higher losses, raptors will only take so many and it will be over a fairly short time scale, until the birds are too big to be taken. Buzzards are highly territorial so nesting numbers within a certain area will be fairly static.
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I agree about extra to allow for losses, round here the pens are in trees so the buzzards can't fly in, but as you say there won't be all that many, not like seagulls on a landfill site.
I am still unclear as to the "plan"..... walking round the countryside destroying nests [more new laws needed], the other plan was to capture them to balance captive and wild populations :confused:
 
Miss L Toe said:
I agree about extra to allow for losses, round here the pens are in trees so the buzzards can't fly in, but as you say there won't be all that many, not like seagulls on a landfill site.
I am still unclear as to the "plan"..... walking round the countryside destroying nests [more new laws needed], the other plan was to capture them to balance captive and wild populations :confused:
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Sorry, never heard of pens in trees, guess they learn to fly fairly quickly then! lol. Just have this vision of all these young pheasants dropping out of trees..........
 
If Mr Cameron is trying to make out he's not an upper class twit protecting the interests of his mates, he's failing epicly :( What a stupid idea, not to mention currently illegal :rolleyes:
 
jrp204 said:
Sorry, never heard of pens in trees, guess they learn to fly fairly quickly then! lol. Just have this vision of all these young pheasants dropping out of trees..........
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Yes they move from the little covered coops in to the forest, the interim stage is more of an enclosed area with small feeders, once they are bigger they move in to the main forest which has feeding stations, again under cover of the trees, presumably to save them from buzzards.
Grey squirrels are rife.
 
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If we were allowed to deal with sparrow hawks too I`d be happy! I used to have a loft of white fan tail doves..until a bloody sparrow hawk pair wiped them out;the few survivors were so terrified they left to roost somewhere safer. Too many hawks are now around due to their complete protection,to the point of extreme nuisance. Many pigeon racing folk will attest to this,where their extremely valuable birds are just used as a feeding station,we need to be allowed to protect our birds.
 
Dear Lord, where to start? There are so many factually incorrect statements as to make clear replies near impossible.

If the article offered by mtj is to be taken seriously, and I'm sorry, but some of the responses on here too, then those statements offered as facts, are so wrong as to be laughable.

I have to go out, but will give this some thought, later today. The best way to deal with a serious tangle, all so often, is to chuck it out, and start again. Generally, the unravelling process isn't worth the effort, but we'll have a go!!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Dear Lord, where to start? There are so many factually incorrect statements as to make clear replies near impossible.

If the article offered by mtj is to be taken seriously, and I'm sorry, but some of the responses on here too, then those statements offered as facts, are so wrong as to be laughable.

I have to go out, but will give this some thought, later today. The best way to deal with a serious tangle, all so often, is to chuck it out, and start again. Generally, the unravelling process isn't worth the effort, but we'll have a go!!

Alec.
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Now now Alec, please concentrate on your driving. We wait with baited breath, for your answer to the incorrect statements. :D
 
To quote DEFRA "We are looking at funding research to find ways of protecting these young birds"
Err when they say protecting don't they mean "making sure they grow into big birds and then we can shoot them"

It is all relative surely, round here it is carnage on the roads when the young pheasants are released. I should think cars wipe out more than buzzards ever do.
 
EAST KENT said:
If we were allowed to deal with sparrow hawks too I`d be happy! I used to have a loft of white fan tail doves..until a bloody sparrow hawk pair wiped them out;the few survivors were so terrified they left to roost somewhere safer. Too many hawks are now around due to their complete protection,to the point of extreme nuisance. Many pigeon racing folk will attest to this,where their extremely valuable birds are just used as a feeding station,we need to be allowed to protect our birds.
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Oh dear, my neighbour had these too, no longer, my fat cat took care of that. I think they were too well fed to leave the ground.
 
Oh yes, we must have plenty of pheasants... to shoot and bury some because there are too many to bloomin eat! :rolleyes:

Yes, I am a country person, my father was an avid shooter until his late middle age when he said to me... why did I did I enjoy that?
I dined on pheasant every week in the season from as early as I can remember.

Of course there are loads of buzzards, there are loads of 'sitting ducks' for them as easy prey.

Round and round we go it seems. :( I'm sure there wont be as many left again soon one way or another. :D
 
We've got far too many buzzards around here and they need culling same as magpies and badgers, none of which have any predators. People need to wake up and recognize the true natural facts that if something hasn't any predators that they will gradually be so strong as to wipe out it's natural diet. Why haven't we any hedgehogs? Because the bloody badgers eat them.

Knocking nests out will discourage them from that nesting place so will only drive them to other areas.
 
Rowreach said:
If Mr Cameron is trying to make out he's not an upper class twit protecting the interests of his mates, he's failing epicly :( What a stupid idea, not to mention currently illegal :rolleyes:
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Agreed. Also agree that the roads account for far more phesant deaths, probably more than all preditors put together! Lets get rid of our native birds in favour of the non-native that's only going to be shot anyway! They want to do this and foxhunting is still illegal?? Unbelieveable.
 
I await the Swan's posting with great anticipation.
I am not one for shooting, but tend to support country pursuits in general, though as far as I can see, the guns round here are very poor sportsmen and not very sociable, also poor shots. More interested in telling all their pals about "Lunching with Lord Tiddleypush" than conservation and the environment.
I think that there will be as many buzzards as their country can support with their food prey, if that includes a pheasant or two, so be it, pheasant are a non native species, and need to be farmed, unlike the buzzards.
Magpies predate on young birds nests, badgers spread disease and have no natural predators, that is the reason they need to be culled imho.
 
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Maesfen said:
We've got far too many buzzards around here and they need culling same as magpies and badgers, none of which have any predators.
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We don't have too many buzzards here - but the population rises and falls with the local rabbit population. So when there was an outbreak of myxi about ten years ago the buzzard numbers dropped dramatically. Nature does have ways of evening things out - I just wish she would sort out the magpies. They do need their numbers reducing IMO.
 
marmalade76 said:
Agreed. Also agree that the roads account for far more phesant deaths, probably more than all preditors put together! Lets get rid of our native birds in favour of the non-native that's only going to be shot anyway! They want to do this and foxhunting is still illegal?? Unbelieveable.
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This echoes my opinions completely. I am aware we need money in the countryside to maintain jobs etc, but if buzzards are getting the baby pheasant, then build better pens fgs! They'll be protecting grey squirrels next...... ;)

We don't need natural predators in this country anymore for the top dogs, cars and us do enough of that.
 
RebelRebel said:
To quote DEFRA "We are looking at funding research to find ways of protecting these young birds"
Err when they say protecting don't they mean "making sure they grow into big birds and then we can shoot them"

It is all relative surely, round here it is carnage on the roads when the young pheasants are released. I should think cars wipe out more than buzzards ever do.
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Road kill supports carrion crows, and rats , I suppose.
 
Lets just eliminate all native predators so greedy estates can make even more money off people who want to shoot grouse or pheasants.

Oh, wait, they're doing that. My OH lives in the Southern Uplands near the Buccleuch Estate and that's a completely managed ecosystem, all for the sake of grouse. Anything -- raptors, stoats, foxes - that eats grouse is shot, trapped, poisoned, legality be damned. You can see on the hills that it's a complete monoculture, and because predators that eat grouse also eat rabbits, the place is crawling with the bloody things. Yet you hardly see a raptor in the area.

If you go to places which are not managed in this way, where there is more balance in the ecosystem, there is far more diversity in terms of plant life as well as wildlife.
 
I saw some old photographs of the Gamekeepers haul, when they used to hang the bodies on fences, apart from all the birds of prey, weasels, stoats and the rest were row upon row of red squirrel, heart breaking really.
 
Not that many years ago I walked into a dead crow hanging from a tree, then I saw rows of them...

Nature, left to itself will find a balance but humans interfering so much especially for so called sport will always lead to explosions of predators/raptors and humans will always want to eradicate them so they can carry on killing for fun.

Anyway, what sport is it using a twelve bore.lol Only a blind numpty could miss when a bird is driven in front of you.
Why don't they just have garden parties or country booze ups if they want entertainment? :confused: Or go out and kill to eat to live?
 
Maesfen said:
We've got far too many buzzards around here and they need culling same as magpies and badgers, none of which have any predators. People need to wake up and recognize the true natural facts that if something hasn't any predators that they will gradually be so strong as to wipe out it's natural diet. Why haven't we any hedgehogs? Because the bloody badgers eat them.

Knocking nests out will discourage them from that nesting place so will only drive them to other areas.
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Not sure where you live, no hedgehogs??!!! lol

Just to add though that the buzzard is not 100% predator, they are scavengers, they eat carion, grubs, and easy prey, so I tell you what, to stop or reduce the baby pheasants from being taken, don't make them easy prey for them!!

They are also often brought down and injured or killed by the common crow, so no they do not live without a natural predator, though the crow isn't killing/injuring to eat so not a predator in the true sense, they kill/injure to defend their own territory.
 
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Now this makes interesting reading:
http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A253112.pdf

'What do common buzzards eat?
The common buzzard has a wide-ranging diet, however it largely takes rabbits and
other small mammals though birds may also be an important prey item at some
nests. Carrion of dead animals may also form a significant part of the diet, with
invertebrates (particularly in the winter). The hunting behaviour of using perches
gives rise to the colloquial Scots name for the common buzzard of “telegraph pole
eagle”.
It has been stated that common buzzards can take significant numbers of game
birds, although a study designed to assess levels of game bird predation by raptors
in general were found to be on average of the order of 1-2%, and exceptionally 5%
(BASC). Predation of mammals of conservation concern (such as red squirrels)
varies between regions of Scotland, with very few taken in some areas and higher
numbers in others. Common buzzards pose no threats to domestic farm livestock.'
 
I am surprised at the lack of support on here for country pursuits, and rural employment, I think it indicates how far the average horse owner is removed from traditional agricultural practices, without which there would now be no bridleways, no drover routes, no copses, no grass drives, no hedges, nothing but boggy march and unimproved land which would not allow biodiversity or riding. A number of "country parks" are part of former estates.
 
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