Bute for maintenance

[Milliechaz]

I wonder if i can ask for your feedback please. My older arthritic gelding (22) has just been put on low level bute for maintenance to keep him hacking comfortably for his well being. He has been on supplements for a few years that have worked really well but needed a bit more help and the vet has agreed that bute is the way forward. Vet has said just try him on different variations to see which works best for him ie 1/2 sachet a day or 1 sachet every other day. I've just started him on 1/2 every day.
He is 15.3 lite/middleweight gelding. Has anybody else had experience of giving 1/2 sachet a day v 1 every other day? How long does it continue working for?
Also he has been on glucosamine, would you continue to keep him on that as well as the bute or just bute? thanks in advance

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I would keep him on the glucosamine. It helps to stop joints deteriorating, it isn't a painkiller.

 

[paddi22]

I wouldn't do Bute longterm. I'd do a good joint supplement with glucosiimine and mom. and also something likes devils claw. there is also a product called butlers that gave good results with some horses

 

[AmyMay]

I would ask for Danillon and give a half satchel daily.

 

[oldie48]

I've had a horse on long term bute. He also had arthritic hocks, not dreadful but vet and I felt keeping him pain free and able to continue in light hacking was best for him. He'd happily eat bute if mixed into his feed so I didn't consider Danilon. I found when it was cold and damp he was happier on a sachet of bute every day but when the weather improved I was able to stop the bute altogether or just give a sachet if he looked a bit stiff. He was better with lots of turnout and regular work but he liked his stable in the winter. I eventually retired him completely when he became very trippy but I still gave him bute if I thought he needed it. He died at 28 with something completely unrelated. My personal view is I'd rather he had a shorter but more comfortable life so I was prepared to give him enough bute to be pain free. He also continued to have a joint supplement.

 

[meleeka]

I have two on long term bute. I give once a day, at teatime.

 

[Milliechaz]

Thanks for your replies everybody

 

[Milliechaz]

I wouldn't do Bute longterm. I'd do a good joint supplement with glucosiimine and mom. and also something likes devils claw. there is also a product called butlers that gave good results with some horses

He has been on glucosimine devils claw and turmeric with good results but just needs a bit more

 

[SEL]

I keep my arthritic one on a joint supplement as well as bute. If the bute starts to affect his gut, liver or anything else then we know its time to call it a day although I suspect his arthritis will take him first sadly.

He's 650kg ish so he used to get 1 x sachet at tea time to make sure he would be comfortable lying down to sleep. This winter with vet's agreement he's up to 2 as and when I feel it is appropriate and we're on an annual pre winter review.

He's fine with bute rather than danilon and the cost difference is significant (although cost doesn't come into it for this one)

 

[Zuzzie]

I've had a horse on long term bute. He also had arthritic hocks, not dreadful but vet and I felt keeping him pain free and able to continue in light hacking was best for him. He'd happily eat bute if mixed into his feed so I didn't consider Danilon. I found when it was cold and damp he was happier on a sachet of bute every day but when the weather improved I was able to stop the bute altogether or just give a sachet if he looked a bit stiff. He was better with lots of turnout and regular work but he liked his stable in the winter. I eventually retired him completely when he became very trippy but I still gave him bute if I thought he needed it. He died at 28 with something completely unrelated. My personal view is I'd rather he had a shorter but more comfortable life so I was prepared to give him enough bute to be pain free. He also continued to have a joint supplement.

I agree with this. My 28 year old has been on one sachet of bute for a few years now and is perfectly healthy. Having bute with his breakfast enables me to hack him out keeping his joints moving (he has arthritis in a coffin joint). A shorter but comfortable and happy life is the main objective.

 

[Goldenstar]

Fatty is on bute long term .
I have tried all ways he’s definitely best on one every other day .
If the weather gets him down he gets one a day .Well managed horses can go for years on bute Fatty has done .
Supplements while they may be helpful are no alternative for pain relief in horses with arthritis who are showing signs of pan .
There other drugs that bute so it’s not your only choice .

 

[TheMule]

Half a sachet a day is unlikely to do anything meaningful for a decent sized horse like yours IMO. I would either feed half a sachet twice a day or 1 sachet once a day and play around with the times you give it to see what gives you the best outcome for when you normally ride

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I give Danilon for hock arthritis. Connie can be a bit stressy without showing any outward signs until it’s to late and vet felt Bute wasn’t the best thing long term. Tried Supplements with little success and because he keeps things to himself I am much happier knowing he really is comfortable.

 

[Birker2020]

I wonder if i can ask for your feedback please. My older arthritic gelding (22) has just been put on low level bute for maintenance to keep him hacking comfortably for his well being. He has been on supplements for a few years that have worked really well but needed a bit more help and the vet has agreed that bute is the way forward. Vet has said just try him on different variations to see which works best for him ie 1/2 sachet a day or 1 sachet every other day. I've just started him on 1/2 every day.
He is 15.3 lite/middleweight gelding. Has anybody else had experience of giving 1/2 sachet a day v 1 every other day? How long does it continue working for?
Also he has been on glucosamine, would you continue to keep him on that as well as the bute or just bute? thanks in advance

Edited: typed twice by accident.

 

[ester]

Mine went on bute when the boswellia wasn’t cutting it anymore, but he did also retire at the same time (26 and was right for him). More recently I did add the boswellia back in.
He has previous liver issues but has weirdly been fine on one bute a day for the last 3 years.

 

[Birker2020]

My 17.1hh horse was on 1/2 sachet of bute (morning) for about five years before going onto one sachet a day for about 7 years. She'd been diagnosed with spavin around 10 years of age and had had her hocks medicated with steroid which didn't work before going onto having Tildren which didn't work so eventually had chemical arthodesis (hock fusion with ethanol)

Vet advised to keep in work and give bute rather than retire as retiring her would have resulted in her being pts as riding was the glue that kept her together. I was told to carry on doing everything I had been doing including SJ and dressage (only low level unaffiliated) and she was fine for many years. So glad I listened to him, when she was pts last year I wrote to him with a photo of her and me and thanked him for giving us all those precious additional years. So glad I listened to him.

The only issue was that she got this this strange tract which followed on from the ulcer she had in the picture below.
It was treated by me syringing in dilute Chlorohexadine (Corsydl) every evening and antibiotics from memory.

I also used to make up my sloppy feeds the night before, one for that night and one for the following morning with the bute in it and it never lost its efficiacy or didn't appear to. No data to suggest either way whether this is good practice or not.

 

[Birker2020]

Half a sachet a day is unlikely to do anything meaningful for a decent sized horse like yours IMO. I would either feed half a sachet twice a day or 1 sachet once a day and play around with the times you give it to see what gives you the best outcome for when you normally ride

On the contrary my 17.1hh 700KG horse did exceptionally well on 1/2 sachet a day for years.
Vet said it wasn't unusual as each horse is an individual but he knew of a large shire that was on 1/4 sachet a day.

Always best to start of low dose and see what you can achieve than to go in guns blazing with a larger dose as they can become accustomed to it.

When I started on my 17 painkillers and anti inflams a day approx 12 years ago they were really efficient and lasted hours. They don't seem to make that much of a difference now to me, wear off after a few hours, I seem to be taking them with a shorter time elapsed now.

 

[ycbm]

I can't quite get my head around timing the administration of bute so that the horse can be ridden. Surely if you have to be concerned about what time lag you give it before riding, that means that the horse is in pain at least some of the time when you aren't riding?
.

 

[ycbm]

The only issue was that she got this this strange tract which followed on from the ulcer she had in the picture below.
It was treated by me syringing in dilute Chlorohexadine (Corsydl) every evening and antibiotics from memory.

View attachment 88764

Who suggested that the gum issue was anything to do with feeding Bute, B?
.

 

[Birker2020]

Who suggested that the gum issue was anything to do with feeding Bute, B?
.

Its in most of the information about Phenylbutazone side effects. I looked it up online as the vet didn't know what had caused the ulcer, it was quite nasty, the photo doesn't do it justice. I only noticed it as there was a disgusting smell from her mouth.

 

[Birker2020]

Who suggested that the gum issue was anything to do with feeding Bute, B?
.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/anyone-know-what-this-is-gum.792128/
this was the post under my former user name.

This is a better photo.

 

[ycbm]

Its in most of the information about Phenylbutazone side effects. I looked it up online as the vet didn't know what had caused the ulcer, it was quite nasty, the photo doesn't do it justice. I only noticed it as there was a disgusting smell from her mouth.

View attachment 88766View attachment 88767

Yet again, love what I learn on this forum. Thank you.
.

 

[Birker2020]

Yet again, love what I learn on this forum. Thank you.
.

Just been reading your previous comments on the link to the old post.

GRR don't know what's going on with my computer today, seems very slow catching up. Apologies for duplication.

 

[Birker2020]

Yet again, love what I learn on this forum. Thank you.
.

Just been reading your comments on the link, seems like forever ago now.

 

[ycbm]

Just been reading your comments on the link, seems like forever ago now.

That tooth removal still bugs me now, I'm glad yours kept hers.
.

 

[SEL]

I can't quite get my head around timing the administration of bute so that the horse can be ridden. Surely if you have to be concerned about what time lag you give it before riding, that means that the horse is in pain at least some of the time when you aren't riding?
.

When mine was in work I actually used to give it after riding. It meant I didn't push him if he didn't feel enthusiastic but also he had some pain relief in case those dodgy joints started to protest after exercise (I am much the same with nurofen these days!!).

 

[Birker2020]

I can't quite get my head around timing the administration of bute so that the horse can be ridden. Surely if you have to be concerned about what time lag you give it before riding, that means that the horse is in pain at least some of the time when you aren't riding?
.

The dosage was worked out by the vet and was given around 9am and the horse was ridden around 4pm. Earlier at the weekends. I think when a horse is on in maintenance it works for longer but don't quote me on that. I think it can last 12 hours in that situation.

In Bailey's case it wasn't for pain, it was for the anti inflammatory assistance it gave, the vet said it was to ease any stiffness when I rode. She wasn't lame after having the fusion so was therefore not in pain. I'd say my arthritis is stiffness, it's not actually pain related. When I struggle to get out of the car after a car ride it doesn't hurt, its just uncomfortable until you do a few strides, same with horses.

 

[Milliechaz]

Half a sachet a day is unlikely to do anything meaningful for a decent sized horse like yours IMO. I would either feed half a sachet twice a day or 1 sachet once a day and play around with the times you give it to see what gives you the best outcome for when you normally ride

Thanks The Mule, thats really helpful - it was the 1/2 sachet a day i was questioning really as it doesn't seem a lot although to be fair he seems to be doing ok on it so ill keep an open mind for another few days.

 

[Milliechaz]

Those who are feeding 1 sachet every other day do you find this leave some hours at the later end of the 2nd day without pain relief?

 

[ester]

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https://hal.inrae.fr/hal-02648884/file/Pharmacokinetics, pharmacodynamics, metabolism, toxicology and n_1.pdf