Bute... Is it really harmful?

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mhorses

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An elderly very well educated lady I know who suffers from arthritus and own horses has for years taken bute herself from the equine sachets.
After hearing all these stories on the news about the horse meat scandal and bute I am worried she might be damaging her health. What are your opinions?
 
Well, she's still alive, after years of taking it! I wouldn't use it myself - but I'm a wimp with some things and this would be one of them. ;)
 
When it was first invented it was a human drug and then they banned it because it does bad things to the liver and kidneys with prolonged use in some people.

I think.
 
well she is approaching 70 and has been on a sachet a day for 8 years so I presume she would be affected by now! Best keep quiet I think!!
 
Still prescribed to people now but only for severe arthritis. Used to be far more common until they linked it with a plastic anaemia.
 
Quite a lot of things we use regularly are carcinogenic if you have enough of it! If she's having bute then it's probably past the stage where paracetamol (or ibuprofen you'd be better off with) would work. I've known people take it for hangovers along with red cell and they're fine! I wouldn't do it myself but if it works for you I suppose!
 
How has she managed to get access to so much bute for so long - if she is getting it prescribed by vet for her horses if she is using it for her own personal use then the horses' must be being deprived of their pain relief.

Surely it would be cheaper for her to get her pain relief via the doctors?

mhorses said:
well she is approaching 70 and has been on a sachet a day for 8 years so I presume she would be affected by now! Best keep quiet I think!!
Click to expand...
 
Phenylbutazone the active ingredient in bute is most renowned for its ability can cause Aplastic Anaemia in humans....so bone marrow suppression...ie killing/stopping production off your white blood cells and the equivalent of shooting your immune system in the face with a shotgun... not advised.
Though if she has been on it longterm I think its safe to say that she has not faced that specific side effect. As an Nsaid the usual risks of delayed clotting, gastric ulceration and gastrointestinal and kidney issues also apply.

It is only ment to be prescribed to humans in certain cases where other Nsaids have been tried and failed to control pain and for short term treatments!Its an older drug so no longer popular in human medicine as thankfully with advances pain management has moved on to better and safer drugs now.

She would would be better off looking for alternatives in her pain management!

How does the likes of this happen in a country with free health care...the mind boggles....
 
I came across this on an American horsemeat site:-

"The Use Of Anti-inflammatory In Food Producing Animals
Phenylbutazone became available for use in humans for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and gout in (1949), but is no longer approved, and thus not marketed, for any human use in the United States. This is because some patients treated with phenylbutazone have experienced severe toxic reactions, and other effective, less toxic drugs are available to treat the same conditions. Phenylbutazone is known for its ulcerogenic, nephrotoxic, and hemotoxic effects in horses, dogs, rats, and humans. It is known to induce blood dyscrasias, including aplastic anemia, leukopenia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, and deaths. The reported adverse reactions were associated with the human clinical use of 200 to 800 milligrams phenylbutazone per day. Hypersensitivity reactions of the serum-sickness type have also been reported in patients with phenylbutazone. The threshold for this effect has not been defined. Therefore, it is unclear what level of exposure would be required to trigger such reactions in sensitive people. Moreover, phenylbutazone is a carcinogen, as determined by the National Toxicology Program (NTP) based on positive results in genotoxicity tests and some evidence of carcinogenicity seen in the rat and mouse in carcinogenicity bioassays NTP conducted.

For animals, phenylbutazone is currently approved only for oral and injectable use in dogs and horses. Use in horses is limited to use in horses not intended for food. There are currently no approved uses of phenylbutazone in food-producing animals. Investigation by FDA and state regulatory counterparts has recently found phenylbutazone on farms and identified tissue residues in culled dairy cattle. In addition, the U.S. Department of Agriculture's (USDA's) Food Safety Inspection Service has reported phenylbutazone residues in culled cattle presented for slaughter for human food throughout the United States in the past 2 calendar years. This evidence indicates that the extralabel use of phenylbutazone in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older will likely result in the presence, at slaughter, of residues that are toxic to humans, including being carcinogenic, at levels that have not been shown to be safe."

Seems to be a bit different to what the government are saying.
 
Horse's former farrier used to stick half a sachet in his morning coffee to manage his back pain. I think his chronic alcoholism was his more immediate health concern.
 
No, it's not really harmful. The fact that an old lady and a farrier have taken a hefty daily dose allegedly without ill effect proves it is safe. :rolleyes:
 
Butazolidin is still on a very limited market for human use (only two or three countries worldwide). It was withdrawn from most markets as there are now safer drugs out there for the same efficacy, but it was not specifically withdrawn for safety reasons.

The max recommended dose in humans is 600mg per day, so for the lady who takes a full sachet for horses... well I'm surprised she hasn't had a severe reaction.
 
I can't have it..

It specifically says in my information leaflet for my thyroxine that I cannot have bute.. Plus I've had jaundice and LF issues over the last 18 months plus surgery..

Most things pose a risk in the wrong circumstances..
 
AnneCam said:
When it was first invented it was a human drug and then they banned it because it does bad things to the liver and kidneys with prolonged use in some people.

I think.
Click to expand...

Same as with horses then? I thought long term use of it in horses is bad for their health in this same way as well? Whats worse is that someone might be allergic to something thats in the bute which shouldn't be in food to begin with!
 
Hmmmm.... be careful about saying humans are prescribed bute for arthritis. The current guidelines do not reflect this and therefore it is prescribed off-licence if at all. It's very difficult for GPs or even specialist consultants to prescribe withdrawn drugs such as 'bute and several court proceedings have taken place regarding arthritis drugs in the UK and US, VIOXX being a high profile one.

If anyone is unsure, please check the NICE website.

For osteoarthritis only a few NSAIDS have a licence and another type of NSAID, a COX-2 inhibitor (such as Arcoxia) before surgery so treatment options are limited.

Even for Rheumatoid Arthritis the pathway is very limited and you have to fail two DMARDS before starting biologic therapy (once monthly injections) even then you have to have it pretty bad!!

Be careful what you say...
 
Paracetamol is a big killer but its still readily available as to Bute if she is fine good luck to her. Some sick patient swear by weed. Anyway it sorted old boy on his way out and TBH its unfair to blame any animal owner for drugs in its system. The whole problem is the fact that wrong animal in wrong labelling. I got an automated Tesco email going on about it being a small amount of food affected.(Yeah I had a snotty response when I asked them to label Halal killed lamb/meat etc). If I still have the letter I may reproduce the wording that was sent to me as it was patronising. etc Sorry ranting now!!
 
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