Bute long term?

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AbbieTom

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I have to do a disscusion on having horses on bute long term and need peoples opinions. please say what you think! :D Thankyou!
 
if it gives the horse a more comfortable life i agree....one of mine was on 1 bute daily for at least 5 years, she was put down due to ringbone and sidebone aged 35. and not due to any side effects of bute on her liver...
 
I have my horse on Danilon, he will be on it for the rest of his life. My vet advised that although it does impair liver function, there will be 101 things that will end a horses life before any liver damage is apparent.

I believe in a better quality of life for my horse by using a drug that's vet recommended and guaranteed to work. Herbal altenatives are not to be sniffed at but aren't as good as the 'hard stuff' xx
 
For me, quality of life is paramount. If a horse is in need of a bit of anti-inflam/pain relief help then I have no qualms about long term use of bute.
 
If it keeps them comfortable then I see no problem with using it, the liver can be supported in other ways and there is little point in looking after the liver at the expense of the horse being able to lead a longer and pain free life.
 
My boy is 13 and he has been on danilon , 1 sachet a day, sometimes less for 2 years now as he has navicular and arthritis in a pastern joint!
My vet says to keep him on it to keep him mobile and keep any inflammation in the joint down, he was recently blood tested and his liver is fine.
the vet said its when they are on high doses, that you can get problems!
 
If the horse is in pain and bute or danilon takes away that pain then it's a no brainer for me. Most horses will die or be PTS for other reasons (likely deterioration of the condition they need pain relief for) long before their liver is damaged enough to cause problems and to be honest at the doses most horses receive for chronic pain the liklihood of it causing issues is quite low. If there is existing liver damage then that may make it wise to look at other options first but if the bute is the only option the owner can afford then surely a perhaps slightly shorter painfree life is better than a long, uncomfortable one?
 
I had a little cob mare that was put on bute at about the age of 15 due to lameness issues and arthritis in her knees and shoulders. She remained on bute until she was PTS at the age of 24 as the stiffness in her joints got so bad that she was struggling to get up and had lost her sight. I was more than happy to continue with the bute as it made her comfortable and yes it may have have had an adverse effect on her organs but she would have had to be PTS sooner because of her joints if she had not been given the bute.
 
My pony was on bute for spavin many, many years ago. This was before we knew about the effect it could have on the liver. He suffered with digestive issues and in the summer he got appalling photosensitisation which, we were then told was a reaction to the sunlight due to liver damage from the bute. We stopped the bute then. I think these days there are alternatives for long term pain relief but bute is great for short terms use. I also agree with others that a horse is more than likely going to die as a result of other causes before the effects of bute but I think, if I wanted to keep a horse pain free on a long term basis, I would try something else.
 
Think it all depends on the age, condition, size of the horse etc and completely agree with what others have said re other things going before the liver. My 23 yr old big 17hh Warmblood is on half a sachet a day for arthritis - that's nothing for a horse his size and given his age I would rather keep him comfortable on that than worry what it could possibly do to his liver ten more years down the line as I very much doubt he'll be around then.
 
Support the hepatic system with milk thistle alongside the Danilon or bute (both metabolise to the same drug once absorbed) and this may help. I'm all for quality of life/comfort and letting the vet know what you think.
 
My horse has ringbone and all the advice points to continuing regular, light exercise. Therefore he is receiving 1 danilon a day, in addition to multiple supplementd. I understand this is a low dose for a 600kg horse. He will be on danilon for life.

Devils claw also impacts the organs. I prefer to give a preparation that meets a certain standard. Lack of regulation around herbal alternatives could lead to great variation.
 
You simply have to weigh up the pros and cons. I had one on danilon for a couple of years and he got gut damage which lead to diarhhoea. At that point he was PTS but it would have been a couple of years earlier without the danilon. If the pros outweigh the cons then do it, but keep an eye out for problems.
 
I have a 16 year old Shire mare with arthritis in two pastern joints who has been on Danilon for well over a year and will be on it for the rest of her life. She's had joint injections and completed a course of Cartrophen earlier in the year. I do worry about her gastrointestinal tract and liver, but seeing her so comfortable on the Danilon, I have to trust my vet's knowledge of both the drug and my mare's history. I require nothing from my mare, other than that she is comfortable, content, and safe. She is neither ridden nor driven in harness. If being on a drug to keep her pain free for the long term is recommended and successful, then so be it.

Cinnamontoast: Your suggestion to add milk thistle to support the liver is well-taken. I will ask my vet about that tomorrow. Thank you.
 
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My horse was being treated for liver damage last year and the vet was still happy for me to put her on up to two bute a day permanently if I needed to. As it happened I was able to get her comfortable from her spavins in other ways so we still have the bute to save for later, but when I need to use it then I will and she will have as much as she needs for as long as she needs. It took a year to sort her liver problem and we never found out what caused it but drug use was never suggested as a culprit.
 
My horse was on bute for 8 years for arthritis without any effects to her liver, I think if the horse needs something to be comfortable then its totally worth it, you can have blood tests done every few years to make sure there is no damage, danilon is a better option if used long term but it is a bit more expensive but worth it in my opinion.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Support the hepatic system with milk thistle alongside the Danilon or bute (both metabolise to the same drug once absorbed) and this may help. I'm all for quality of life/comfort and letting the vet know what you think.
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I've seen suggestions on other threads that Danilon is "kinder" than bute so I asked my vet. Just the same but Danilon is more expensive because it is made more palatable for those horses who won't take bute. I'll certainly think of adding Milk thistle to my oldie's feed. Thnaks for that!
 
Danilon is simply bute with a sugar coating, the effects are just the same.

I feel that if quality of life is improved and the horse is happy then I'd be okay with buting long term. I've known horses who have been on it for 10+ years with no liver problems. There are plenty of humans that take long term pain medication that have similar side effects, but I wouldn't expect them to be deprived of the pain relief because of that.
Herbal treatments are all well and good, and some may have a good result, but I think that if a horse gets to the point that it needs bute then I'd stick with that.
 
It would have to be on a lot of bute for a long time to cause any significant damage. And of course you then have to ask yourself the question - if it has to be on that much then what quality of life does it have.

1 - 2 a day - no problem. Any more, more it down.
 
Until recently my old pony was on bute for a degenerative jaw problem. She was on 1 a day, occasionally 2 on a bad day so not a hugely massive dose. We thought really hard about whether to have her on long term bute but the benefits seemed to out weigh the benefits at the time and she had had bute previously for spavins, a couple of years previously 1/2 or 1 per day for about 6/9 months with no problems. About 4 months after starting bute this time however she got colonic ulcers, caused by the bute and we are lucky to still have her with us as it made her so incredibly poorly. My friends horse had a similar reaction after being put on danillion for lami, and he ended up in hospital and we were also very close to losing him.

I know these could be extreme cases but what I am trying to say is that all horses can react different differently, and I would agree with those that say danillon is no safer. I for one will certainly not use bute long term again if it was for a chronic problem. There is always a risk, and I know that some horses it can keep them going for years when used for arthritis etc, but I would certainly look at all other options before going down the road of long term bute and then I would think very carefully about whether it is worth the risk or not.
 
I've been reading the replies to this thread with interest as my 20 year old cob has just been diagnosed with low grade bilateral hock arthritis. He has just started a two week course of Danilon starting at 2 sachets twice daily and reducing down to half a sachet twice daily. We are hoping to switch him to Devils Claw after the initial two week period but if that doesn't work we will look at other options, including long term use of Danilon.


Edit - Would it be worth me looking at giving him milk thistle, even if we swap to Devils Claw after the initial period on Danilon?
 
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touchstone said:
Danilon is simply bute with a sugar coating, the effects are just the same.

I feel that if quality of life is improved and the horse is happy then I'd be okay with buting long term. I've known horses who have been on it for 10+ years with no liver problems. There are plenty of humans that take long term pain medication that have similar side effects, but I wouldn't expect them to be deprived of the pain relief because of that.
Herbal treatments are all well and good, and some may have a good result, but I think that if a horse gets to the point that it needs bute then I'd stick with that.
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Actually, Danilon is suxibuzone with a light sugar coating for palatability. Bute is phenylbutazone. Danilon is more expensive, but is reputed to be easier on the stomach.
 
My oldie, who's 30 has been on i sachet Danilon every day for the past 7 years, if the ground's hard sometimes 2 a day with no problems, i have LFT's checked yearly, she needs it for her arthritis to keep her comfortable.
Id rather give pain relief and keep jer comfortable in to her in her retirement as she was a great wee horse who for me deserves her retirement, when she starts to find it difficult on 2 a day, i'll meet with the vet again and we can work out whats best for her then
 
Bertolie - devils claw has the same effect on the liver as danilon, so you would be better off just sticking with the danilon.

What your horse is on now is the 'loading dose' then you will drop down onto the maintenance dose. Vets will give you a maintenance dose that is safe for your horse. My cob was also diagnosed with arthritis at 20, he's been on danilon since (now almost 22) and I have not seen any problems. He's happier in himself and almost back into full work.

Vet advised in a horse of 20, you wouldn't see any liver or organ damage until their mid-late 30's but its very rare for an arthritic horse to live that long as they will generally be PTS as their arthritis worsens.
 
Unbalanced - are you able to say what other ways you have used for making your horse comfortable? My boy has been on devil's claw for several years, and was fine, but when he recently had to have bute for another issue, I noticed he was more comfortable joint-wise so his vet and I decided that now was the time to begin regular bute instead of the devil's claw. He is 24. Like other posters, I have tried to 'save' bute until we really needed it, so am interested in any other success stories for anti-inflam/pain relief for arthritic joints.
 
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