Buyer hasn't paid, where do I stand?

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Cob_Lover

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Hopefully someone has been in this situation and can offer advice. I put my mare out on loan nearly 2 years ago with the idea being that she came back to me after a year (loan agreement drawn up stated 1 year unless both parties agreed to extend). Circumstances changed and I realised I wasn't in the position to have her back with me, so I decided to possibly sell her, giving first refusal to the girl she was on loan to. It's a fab home for her and she's thriving there so I'd feel happy knowing she was being sold to a good home.

The girl loaning her said she'd jump at the chance to own my mare outright but said she couldn't pay it all in one go. We agreed a sale price which was below market value I think, again I was happy with that because of the good home she's in. We agreed that it would all be paid by a certain date however that wasn't adhered to, and I'd only received a sixth of the amount by the agreed date.

The buyer said she really wanted to keep my mare so I offered a 6 month extension. That meant she'd have a FULL YEAR to pay from when we first agreed she'd buy.

Unfortunately that extension has now passed and I've still not received the full amount. I've received just over half of the total amount. My patience is at an end and the whole situation is now really uncomfortable.

What do I do now?

Any advice welcome.
 
Has she been keeping up with her loaner payments? If so return the money she has paid for the sale and sell the horse.

If she hasn't kept up with loan payments, essentially a rental for the horse, you would be in a position to keep a proportion of what she has paid to clear the " rental" debt, refund the rest and sell the horse.

If you can't have the horse back put her on sales livery.
 
Thanks. There wasn't a payment plan as such in place. The full amount was to be paid 6 months after we agreed she'd by my mare. This wasn't adhered to so I gave a 6 month extension. Now over a year later I haven't had it all. Buyer says she's going to "pay when she can" - ?!?!? That is useless to me.

The reason I can't have her back is because I can't afford her upkeep now (long story, family related). Sales livery would cripple me.

Feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm still her owner on paper but I just want the buyer to pay up.
 
alainax said:
Has she been keeping up with her loaner payments? If so return the money she has paid for the sale and sell the horse.

If she hasn't kept up with loan payments, essentially a rental for the horse, you would be in a position to keep a proportion of what she has paid to clear the " rental" debt, refund the rest and sell the horse.

If you can't have the horse back put her on sales livery.
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There will be no payments due for a loan, the payments are in part purchase which is a tricky scenario which cannot be sorted by returning the cash and taking back the horse unless this is clearly written into the contract, the contract that the OP has allowed to be changed so is probably worthless anyway so I would tread very carefully.

As the buyer has paid over 50% I would speak to them and see what is really going on, they have probably found out why they loaned rather than bought in the first place, difficult to save a decent amount of money, even harder when you are paying to keep a horse, rather than going to court to sort this out come up with a similar payment plan, £x per week/ month paid directly into your account until the full amount is cleared, yes it may take another 12 months but it is all you are likely to get if you go to court and sorts it out amicably, if you really need the lump sum then see if they can get a loan to pay you but i suspect money is tight, they are embarrassed about it and cannot think how best to deal with it, yes she could be sold but is that in anyone's best interests?
 
I think you have to be ready to tie the horse back, even temporarily. If you tell the girl you are doing this, she may hide the horse. Turn up with a trailer and tell her you're tking YOUR horse back til she pays up. I bet she will find the money pretty damned quickly.
 
Thanks be positive- that's all really helpful.

I suppose my fear is that the girl is about to turn round and say she's returning my horse and wants the money she's paid so far to be returned.

Can she do that?
 
cinnamontoast said:
I think you have to be ready to tie the horse back, even temporarily. If you tell the girl you are doing this, she may hide the horse. Turn up with a trailer and tell her you're tking YOUR horse back til she pays up. I bet she will find the money pretty damned quickly.
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Thanks. Worried she'll then demand her money back. It's so difficult. I'd really rather my horse stayed put as she's really well looked after. Feel like I'm really being taken advantage of.
 
Cob_Lover said:
Thanks be positive- that's all really helpful.

I suppose my fear is that the girl is about to turn round and say she's returning my horse and wants the money she's paid so far to be returned.

Can she do that?
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She is unlikely to do that and if she tried I would not expect you to pay her anything until the horse is sold and only then if there was anything left after expenses, so she will potentially lose the horse and any money she has put in so far, far better to get it sorted out quickly in a friendly manner, she needs to work out how much she can give you on a regular basis and stick to it, it may mean she has to tighten her outgoings for a while but if she really wants the horse, which I suspect she does otherwise she would have tried to return it ages ago, she will find a way that keeps you reasonably happy.
 
be positive said:
She is unlikely to do that and if she tried I would not expect you to pay her anything until the horse is sold and only then if there was anything left after expenses, so she will potentially lose the horse and any money she has put in so far, far better to get it sorted out quickly in a friendly manner, she needs to work out how much she can give you on a regular basis and stick to it, it may mean she has to tighten her outgoings for a while but if she really wants the horse, which I suspect she does otherwise she would have tried to return it ages ago, she will find a way that keeps you reasonably happy.
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Thank you again for your input. I really don't want this turning nasty so I'll try again with her, and offer a payment plan. I wish she'd just pay up like she said she would.

Is it worth me seeking legal advice? I obviously don't want to shell out on lawyers fees but perhaps I can get a professional opinion from somewhere?!?
 
I think if you can do it without getting solicitors involved it will save you money as well as keep things from getting nasty, if she fails to keep to the plan, make sure it is written down and signed, then is the time to get a solicitor involved, for now I don't think they will say anything different from what I have, once they are involved it potentially turns into a fight which means everyone loses, they get forced to pay, if they cannot the horse has to be returned or sold and you may end up without the balance anyway if she sells for less or livery bills run up, the solicitors will get paid regardless so they always win.
 
cinnamontoast said:
I think you have to be ready to tie the horse back, even temporarily. If you tell the girl you are doing this, she may hide the horse. Turn up with a trailer and tell her you're tking YOUR horse back til she pays up. I bet she will find the money pretty damned quickly.
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You cant do that !
She owns as much as the OP and at the end of the day there should have been a contract (written) there is a verbal one which is the ops word against the girl;s if it ends up in court. It seems to me the only way is to compromise and try and get a set amount a month and the OP will at least not have the aggro of getting the horse back . If the girl cannot agree to that then you will have to suggest the horse is sold and the proceeds split as you both own 50% at present.
Seriously if your in contact with the girl sort it between you ,your more likely to get a positive outcome rather than splashing it all over the internet and creating ill feeling.
 
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popsdosh said:
You cant do that !
She owns as much as the OP and at the end of the day there should have been a contract (written) there is a verbal one which is the ops word against the girl;s if it ends up in court. It seems to me the only way is to compromise and try and get a set amount a month and the OP will at least not have the aggro of getting the horse back . If the girl cannot agree to that then you will have to suggest the horse is sold and the proceeds split as you both own 50% at present.
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It's alll in writing (texts, emails), nothing was agreed verbally.
 
How much is the sum we are talking about? If you take her back and can't get her sold for 6 months will you even get the same amount back if you factor livery and other bills in plus she could drop dead and you'd have nothing to sell.

If you can't easily take back and refund the payments then I think you'll need to negotiate with the girl on a realistic payment plan.
 
Cob_Lover said:
It's alll in writing (texts, emails), nothing was agreed verbally.
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You cannot get over the fact that the girl owns as much as you do so repossession would potentially end up with you in court and having a horse to look after. Talk to her and if thats impossible get somebody you both know to help as an intermediary. Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and realise what you did was silly and try to salvage what you can.
 
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popsdosh said:
You cannot get over the fact that the girl owns as much as you do so repossession would potentially end up with you in court and having a horse to look after. Talk to her and if thats impossible get somebody you both know to help as an intermediary. Sometimes you have to take it on the chin and realise what you did was silly and try to salvage what you can.
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Fairly harsh for you to say I was silly, but thanks for your input all the same.

I've spoken to a few people about this and the consensus is that my horse is still mine until fully paid for and ownership signed over (she's registered with a breed society).
 
Cob_Lover said:
Fairly harsh for you to say I was silly, but thanks for your input all the same.

I've spoken to a few people about this and the consensus is that my horse is still mine until fully paid for and ownership signed over (she's registered with a breed society).
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You cant get over she has paid half so owns half the horse thats how any court will look upon it.. I only mention silly because im sure now you feel you were silly to have done it in the first place! As they say to get caught once is unfortunate but to believe they would not default again is difficult to believe.
 
You said you put the horse out on loan. Had she never paid you for this? Or just for the first year and after that was essentially on a free years trial period?
 
alainax said:
You said you put the horse out on loan. Had she never paid you for this? Or just for the first year and after that was essentially on a free years trial period?
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Not sure I understand what you mean. My horse was on loan from Dec 2015 until Dec 2016, with a clause in the loan agreement saying that the loan period could be extended on the agreement of both parties. There was no payment taken for the loan (made wasn't leased to her, she was loaned and the girl took over all day to day costs). In June 2016, 6 months into the loan, the girl agreed to buy my horse and pay in full by 1st January 2017.
 
If she's only paid half, she does not own half - if it were a mortgage, or a new kettle, you can bet the courts would not consider her a part owner!

OP, you need to discuss with her - but I'd be putting a short deadline on it, and if she fails to meet it, make it clear the money paid so far will be used for livery and advertising until you sell the horse, and anything left will be returned.

She has broken the agreement- she might be lovely, but you shouldn't have to carry the can on this.
 
Theocat said:
If she's only paid half, she does not own half - if it were a mortgage, or a new kettle, you can bet the courts would not consider her a part owner!

OP, you need to discuss with her - but I'd be putting a short deadline on it, and if she fails to meet it, make it clear the money paid so far will be used for livery and advertising until you sell the horse, and anything left will be returned.

She has broken the agreement- she might be lovely, but you shouldn't have to carry the can on this.
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Thank you very much
 
Personally, I would just put it down to experience and let the girl keep the horse. You say it's a good home, you cant afford to keep it yourself. If the animal is in safe hands, sign it over with an agreement you get first refusal to buy back incase in the future she decides to sell.

I would rather make sure any animal is in a good home, then try to take it back and sell it on, just because the person who has been looking the animal so well (as you say) can mot afford to pay up in one go.

The animal is safe. It's looked after . .not dumped in a field, if worse situation. Let it go x
 
jumping.jack_flash said:
Personally, I would just put it down to experience and let the girl keep the horse. You say it's a good home, you cant afford to keep it yourself. If the animal is in safe hands, sign it over with an agreement you her first refusal to buy back i case n the future she decides to sell.

I would rather make sure any animal is in a good home, then try to take it back and sell it on, just because the person who has been looking the animal so well (as you say) can mot afford to pay up in one go.

The animal is safe. It's looked after . .not dumped in a field, if worse situation. Let it go x
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Thanks very much for your input. I know what you're saying however and I agree to a certain extent. But the girl gets a super pony for an absolutely bargain price. After asking the breed society and other breed owners it was thought that her value including tack was around £3500. We agreed a sale price of £2000 including tack because I could see what a lovely home it was. To date I have had just over £1000.
 
Theocat said:
If she's only paid half, she does not own half - if it were a mortgage, or a new kettle, you can bet the courts would not consider her a part owner!

OP, you need to discuss with her - but I'd be putting a short deadline on it, and if she fails to meet it, make it clear the money paid so far will be used for livery and advertising until you sell the horse, and anything left will be returned.

She has broken the agreement- she might be lovely, but you shouldn't have to carry the can on this.
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On most HP agreements you will find that once say40% has been paid the goods cannot be repossessed without a court order and indeed if sold reimburse any sum over that outstanding. If the OP decides to take your course of action it will cost the OP a lot more than whats outstanding is my guess

Just out of interest OP how old is the girl?
 
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popsdosh said:
On most HP agreements you will find that once say40% has been paid the goods cannot be repossessed without a court order and indeed if sold reimburse any sum over that outstanding. If the OP decides to take your course of action it will cost the OP a lot more than whats outstanding is my guess

Just out of interest OP how old is the girl?
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She's 30.
 
alainax said:
Has she been keeping up with her loaner payments? If so return the money she has paid for the sale and sell the horse.

If she hasn't kept up with loan payments, essentially a rental for the horse, you would be in a position to keep a proportion of what she has paid to clear the " rental" debt, refund the rest and sell the horse.

If you can't have the horse back put her on sales livery.
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alainax said:
You said you put the horse out on loan. Had she never paid you for this? Or just for the first year and after that was essentially on a free years trial period?
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Not sure if you're in the UK but full loan of horses doesn't involve any payment to the owner (at least for normal leisure horses). The loanee is responsible for all the upkeep of the horse but doesn't pay anything to the owner
 
mynutmeg said:
Not sure if you're in the UK but full loan of horses doesn't involve any payment to the owner (at least for normal leisure horses). The loanee is responsible for all the upkeep of the horse but doesn't pay anything to the owner
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Learn something new everyday! I always presumed you pay if you want to have a horse on loan.
 
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