Buyer not declaring a medical issue

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suehem

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I have just (obviously stupidly) bought a 3yo Irish Draught filly off the preloved site without viewing her. She has arrived very thin and absolutely terrified of everything. She was advertised as broken but I wouldn't dare attempt to get on her. This is not the worse of it as when she was delivered it was by and equine dental tech and he informed us we needed to have wolf teeth removed this is going to cost a £100. We have had her a week now and been fattening her up and as she has settled we have been able to stroke her and get close but we have now discovered she has an umblical hernia as well. This will cost £500 plus. Does anyone know the legalities of if we could return her or are we just stuck with this problem. Thanks
 
I'd imagine its a buyer beware situation as she was sold as seen...
Hernias and wolf teeth were both visible if you had examined her before buying....if she was completely unhandled and unhandleable when sold then everyone in this scenario was blind to these faults.
 
Aru said:
I'd imagine its a buyer beware situation as she was sold as seen...
Hernias and wolf teeth were both visible if you had examined her before buying....if she was completely unhandled and unhandleable when sold then everyone in this scenario was blind to these faults.
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This.
 
warmbloodcrazy said:
I'd agree with the above, never buy a horse unseen and if you do expect there to be issues such as the ones you're experiencing. Good luck with her, i hope it all works out
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Although I would say that woolf teeth are not really an issue - and around about 3 or 4 is when you may be looking to extract them anyway.
 
Agree, wolf teeth are just one of those things you have to deal with. If you'd viewed the horse you should have seen the hernia. I would say you have no come back on this.
 
Sounds like you have been caught out good and proper. Whilst I feel sorry for you, my really sympathy goes to the poor terrified creatue you are now 'saddled' with (pardon the pun).

You should always get any potential horse five stage vetted, if you had done this you would have saved yourself (and the filly) and lot of trouble and heartbreak.

If you are prepared to put the time (and sadly the money) into her then you will end up with an animal that will love you unconditionally and trust you wholeheartedly, but this sounds like it could be a long process. I think you need to do the right thing by this mare and get her the veterinary attention for the umbilical hernia and count your blessings that things are not a lot worse.

Sorry for your troubles.
 
You could use the money saved by not having her vetted to get both jobs done. Sorry, but not only have you been stupid by buying her unseen anyway, you don't seem very prepared for the costs that ANY horse can bring. This is exactly why so many hapless animals get abandoned.
 
Don't know if this is a genuine thread or not, but in case it is...

You have obviously already realised that buying unseen is fraught with problems.

Make sure you print off the ad/description of the horse so that you have evidence in case there is a case of misrepresentation.

I agree that wolf teeth removal is just part of having a youngster, and also if your filly is thin you will obviously be keen to have the dentist out to her in any case it's sharp teeth or changes in teeth that are causing her to eat too little to gain weight....... so worth just treating the dentist's visit as part of their routine once or twice yearly visit.

You'll probably need her sedating for wolf teeth removal, so if you are asking the vet to come and sedate her for the dentist, then it would also be worth considering if there's anything else that could be done most easily (least stressfully) at the same time. For example, do her feet need trimming, and would the farrier have the best chance of doing them whilst she's sedated (just until you can put a few more hours in to get her used to lifting them calmly)? Obviously it would probably be a good time to deal with the hernia. If you can tie that all in to happen in one visit, that will keep some of your costs down. It may be that you feel your vet is good enough with dental work to use them for the teeth as well as doing the hernia. That might also keep your costs down a little, though personally I choose to use a dentist.

At 3 years old, I wouldn't expect any youngster to have done much work. Preferable if they haven't done too much at such a young age. Fair enough if she's been sat on a few times and done a little walk or trot with rider, but I'd just take her right back to basics in terms of groundwork and treat her as though she had never been sat on. Like you say, she doesn't sound to be in the right mental state to be ridden at the moment, so no point rushing it. If you don't have the skills to restart her and/or bring her on, then find someone who you can trust to do the job for you.


Over the course of a week, I wouldn't expect to be "fattening her up". It would be a gradual weight gain I'd be aiming for. Well worth talking to some of the feed company helplines for general advice on the best way to do this, to avoid any problems of trying to put weight on too quickly. It may be that just a "normal" forage ration with daily vits/mins might be enough to gradually put the weight back on.

Worth chatting to the vet about best worming strategy too - if the filly is very underweight, worms are something else to consider.

Hope you are able to gradually build her confidence and help her become the horse you were hoping for.

Sarah
 
You bought the horse unseen now you have to get on with it , you could have viewed the horse ,you could have got the horse vetted you did not .
 
Goldenstar said:
You bought the horse unseen now you have to get on with it , you could have viewed the horse ,you could have got the horse vetted you did not .
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That's a little bit harsh Goldenstar. The OP has been very brave to come on here and anounce to the world (well, H&H forum users anyway) that she has made a mistake and she wants help and she is trying to do her best in the light of her mistake. Give her a break man!! :) I must admit the bit the OP put in her post ' or are we just stuck with her?' riled me though.


I agree that she has been silly, but she can still sort this out. Sarah's advice seems really helpful. I reckon this horse with a bit of TLC and time can be turned around. She hasn't had the best start to life but there's no reason why she won't come good in future.

She definetely doesn't need to start doing any strenous or repetetive work until she is five and a half, or even six, depending on her breed. WB's are really slow to mature, not sure what breed the OP said she was.
 
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suehem said:
we needed to have wolf teeth removed this is going to cost a £100. We have had her a week now and been fattening her up and as she has settled we have been able to stroke her and get close but we have now discovered she has an umblical hernia as well. This will cost £500 plus. Does anyone know the legalities of if we could return her or are we just stuck with this problem. Thanks
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Poor horse.
Why on earth would you want to return her? I wouldn't dream of it I'm afraid, I'd take responsibility for the problem and give the poor mite a chance.

fatpiggy said:
You could use the money saved by not having her vetted to get both jobs done. Sorry, but not only have you been stupid by buying her unseen anyway, you don't seem very prepared for the costs that ANY horse can bring.
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9tails said:
How lovely to read a thread where a buyer wants to return a thin, terrified horse whence it came....
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Must admit I agree with all of this. It's your horse now and it's up to you to give her the happiest and healthiest life possible. If you can't/won't then you shouldn't have a horse. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm fed up of seeing this.

FYI, legally you have no comeback.
 
Sorry but you are all missing the point. There are thousands of animals of every type bought unseen and exported/imported throughout the world, there has to be a degree of trust or the world is going to be a terrible place. We bought her from a reputable stud with many years behind them in the Irish Draught world. She was too far away for us to view her. We are furious that she was broken in when she was so underweight and immature and think that the vendor should be held accountable for her lack of care. She should have had her hernia attended to when she was a foal. The EDT told us she should never have been mouthed without the removal of the wolf teeth. She has also been hacking out or so they said but she came unshod and needs her feet attended too. We have taken advice on the feeding and she is " fattening up" this is our county expression and I wont apologise for this. We have just turned her out and don't intend to touch her until the spring when she should hopefully be healthy. Then we will send her to be either broken in properly or brought on in experience. She will not be returned to the vendor as although spooked at everything she has a really sweet nature and hopefully after wintering in and getting a lot of handling within a busy livery with all the comings and goings she will not be quite so scared of everything. She will be getting the vetinary care she needs regardless of cost but as I said that is not the point she should not have been sold like this and I know when selling puppies or kittens you have to declare hernias by law. I apologise for the comment of being stuck with the problem this is another of our county expressions but realise how it sounds to others and it wasn't meant the way it was taken.
 
OP, you asked if you could send her back, is that another county expression for keeping her and making the best of it?

Have you spoken to this reputable stud about the state of her when she arrived?
 
Have you spoken to the seller. The wolf teeth are to be expected but surely and undeclared hernia would class as 'not as described'?

Ah just read that you don't want to return her anyway.
 
reputable dealer advertising on preloved?

reputable dealer backing a 3yr old ID?

sounds like a c**p dealer to me

EDT cannot by law remove wolf teeth a vet has to do that.

my mare does upwards of ten hrs road work a week barefoot.

Do some research get the medical work done and as you have said give her the winter to mature and then hopefully you will have a nice little mare
 
Leaving aside the ethics of returning the horse, I presume you have a bill of sale describing the horse, its condition, price etc. As well, perhaps, as emails discussing the sale. Legally these COULD all be brought to bear if you want to take it up with the consumer protection/Trading Standards authorities in the country of purchase. It won't be easy, though.

As to "thousands of animals bought sight unseen and exported/imported around the world" . . .really? I don't know anyone who has bought a quality horse oversees without a vetting or (usually and) the services of a reputable agent/seller known to the purchaser. And that is not even bringing into it health papers, tax considerations etc. Inside the Eu is a different matter and, yes, much less regulated although we've had ample proof lately that "common practice" outside the regulations can lead to all sorts of abuse.

It is also possible the poor horse is mostly showing the effects of the travel and relocation. That can cause a lot of stress and a surprising short term weight loss. In addition, many breeders.purposefully keep young horses lighter than many single horse owners like to see, particularly if they are have lines/types that predispose to OCD. (Which is also a good reason to get young horses x-rayed as there is NO way a breeder would know about a DJD condition unless they themselves had x-rayed the horse.) Ditto, wolf teeth - they do not always HAVE to come out and not every larger breeder gets every horse done before it's backed unless there is cause for concern. Many tbs don't even have them through when they are backed.

I'm not saying this is the situation in this case but it's not unheard of for single horse owners to get horses from large studs, especially outside the UK and catering more towards the professional market to feel that the horse has not been kept to their high standards. You might be surprised some of the good horses that have started life a little lean and scraggy by livery yard standards. That said, I'm not sure those yards would be advertising on preloved and sending the horse off without paperwork.

Re the hernia, it would depend on the law in the country the horse was purchased in and how the law is worded. That MIGHT be a valid point. If the price was much lower than one would have expected for a horse of her type, that could complicate things, especially if you don't have proof you asked if the horse was healthy and blemish free and received an affirmative answer.

Anyway, good luck with the horse. I presume she is the breeding and type you wanted, "issues" aside, so should grow into the horse you want, no?
 
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I have done it once bought unseen just had a picture of H&H but was from a well known stud a shame with what has happened to you just hope all goes well for you and the horse just goes to show though it is buyers beware
 
Surely with a 3 year old you were expecting a worried baby which probably looked a bit rubbish. The hernia sounds iffy, but anxiety, feet needing attention, wolf teeth and an animal needing a winter in the field is pretty much what I would expect when buying at that age. Can't quite understand what your problem is, surely you weren't expecting a sleek shiny, calm horse with shoes on and which you could hop on and hack around...?
 
siennamum said:
Surely with a 3 year old you were expecting a worried baby which probably looked a bit rubbish. The hernia sounds iffy, but anxiety, feet needing attention, wolf teeth and an animal needing a winter in the field is pretty much what I would expect when buying at that age. Can't quite understand what your problem is, surely you weren't expecting a sleek shiny, calm horse with shoes on and which you could hop on and hack around...?
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Agree with this ^^
 
amymay said:
Ah well, you live and learn.
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AM... Your replies tickle me pink!


OP.

>my boy was mouthed before his wolf teeth came out.... They hadnt even come through at that point.

My boy has been backed and hacked, and jumped and schooled since June last year.... Shock horror he is unshod... No metal been near those hooves ever, even though he does lots of roadwork.

Yes, in a eutopian society you should be able to trust people.... But this is reality.


You will know better for next time.

Feed, rest, recouperation, hernia op and wolf teeth and then crack on. Furthermore, please stop moaning about wolf teeth, its normal to expect to have to deal with this!
 
siennamum said:
Surely with a 3 year old you were expecting a worried baby which probably looked a bit rubbish. The hernia sounds iffy, but anxiety, feet needing attention, wolf teeth and an animal needing a winter in the field is pretty much what I would expect when buying at that age. Can't quite understand what your problem is, surely you weren't expecting a sleek shiny, calm horse with shoes on and which you could hop on and hack around...?
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Amen!
 
EDT cannot by law remove wolf teeth a vet has to do that
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Actually they can, and have on two of mine.
They cannot remove any tooth that requires invasion (ie cutting and hence anaesthesia and stitching) of the gum but if the wolf tooth is properly erupted it can be simply removed by an EDT- it does not have to be a vet-mine cost £35 each as they were carried out as part of a routine dental exam.

my mare does upwards of ten hrs road work a week barefoot.
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All mine do too!
But thats not the point- I wouldn't expect fine looking shod feet on a 3 year old anyway- I would be more worried if they were!
 
amymay said:
Often the first sign of an issue with wolf teeth is when their first bitted.
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But not always. Honestly, some horses are fine with them and not every big breeder gets stuff done like that unless/until there is reason.

I would also not shoe a horse before/during backing and, indeed, not until/unless it is absolutely necessary, in part becsue my experience is it lessens the chance of injury and facilities the adaptations necessary to begin working in a healthy manner. In many cases the horse might be out competing before the issue even comes up for conversation.
 
serenityjane said:
Actually they can, and have on two of mine.
They cannot remove any tooth that requires invasion (ie cutting and hence anaesthesia and stitching) of the gum but if the wolf tooth is properly erupted it can be simply removed by an EDT- it does not have to be a vet-mine cost £35 each as they were carried out as part of a routine dental exam.


All mine do too!
But thats not the point- I wouldn't expect fine looking shod feet on a 3 year old anyway- I would be more worried if they were!
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by law they cannot as of earlier this year but a lot of them still do,mine had her removed by the EDT earlier this year but was done with vet in attendance as they have a dental clinic there
 
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