Buying a horse...etiquette..

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AshTay

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I've found a horse that I really like (private sellers) and have tried him out hacking and will be going back later this week to try him again at a nearby menage. He's about an hour away from me.

If I like him on friday I 'll be buying him but feel that I should also have a vetting done which will require yet another day of disruption for the sellers and myself. I don't mind but I don't want to be seen as drawing things out (if he passes vetting then I'd obviously buy him).

What's the norm in these situations? I hear of people going to look at a horse and buying it the same day and coming home with it. Do people leave deposits if they plan to buy subject to the horse passing the vetting?

How many times do people normally try a horse before they buy?
 
I think that leaving a deposit subject to vetting will show the seller your commitment :) seeing a horse 2 times is not excessive at all, I've had clients coming 5-6 times before.
 
Thanks Martlin!

With deposits, if the horse then fails the vetting, would I be within my rights to ask for the return of the deposit (I assume they could only keep the deposit if the horse passed vetting but I pulled out of the sale regardless?).
 
Yes, as the deposit is subject to vetting, you would be within your rights to ask for it back if the horse fails :) I would be prepared to disclose the vetting certificate, though, in order for the seller to refund you. In theory, you don't have to do it as it is ''confidential'' between you and the vet, but I fail to see how you could otherwise prove that the reason for pulling out is failed vetting, if you can see my logic.
 
AshTay said:
With deposits, if the horse then fails the vetting, would I be within my rights to ask for the return of the deposit (I assume they could only keep the deposit if the horse passed vetting but I pulled out of the sale regardless?).
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That's the basis that I've always paid deposits on. Make sure you get it in writing that it is subject to the horse passing the vetting and is refundable in full if the horse fails the vetting for whatever reason.

Good luck, hope everything works out for you.
 
What you are suggesting is absolutely normal and sellers shouldn't really complain. While some people do indeed turn up and buy a horse, they are rare and sometimes live to regret their haste!
 
I think the standard is two visits plus a vetting....That's what i've done anyway the times i've been looking for a horse. I may have visited more times if it was close.

I think most owners expect a vetting, personally I wouldn't worry about a deposit...only if it is a dealer or if you think that lots of people are seeing the horse.

Best of luck!
 
Thanks everyone! That's really helpful - especially getting an idea of how many times people go and try a horse! The sellers seem like really lovely people and want the best home for their horse so I think it will all be fine. I'd arrange the vetting for one day next week. They have had other interest but have taken numbers to call back if it doesn't work out with me. They're not in a rush to sell anyway.
 
martlin said:
Yes, as the deposit is subject to vetting, you would be within your rights to ask for it back if the horse fails :) I would be prepared to disclose the vetting certificate, though, in order for the seller to refund you. In theory, you don't have to do it as it is ''confidential'' between you and the vet, but I fail to see how you could otherwise prove that the reason for pulling out is failed vetting, if you can see my logic.
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I see your logic. I would disclose the vetting. No reason why I wouldn't anyway.

As an aside, I looked at another horse and the previous owner showed me her vetting certificate for him (done 6 months previously when she bought him) which was very helpful.
 
i would inform the vet that you may need to book them for a vetting so that when you next try the horse you can arrange with the owners a date and time. I would advise you to be present at the vetting if possible, this way you will be able to see how the horse behaves and can ask the vet any questions. If you have not bought a horse before don't assume anything and ask everything, prefrebably with another person, ie vet .A genuine seller will not mind giving you time, their priority should be that their horse goes to the right home and that you will be happy together. Good luck
 
rossiroo said:
i would inform the vet that you may need to book them for a vetting so that when you next try the horse you can arrange with the owners a date and time. I would advise you to be present at the vetting if possible, this way you will be able to see how the horse behaves and can ask the vet any questions. If you have not bought a horse before don't assume anything and ask everything, prefrebably with another person, ie vet .A genuine seller will not mind giving you time, their priority should be that their horse goes to the right home and that you will be happy together. Good luck
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The vetting would have to be by a vet local to them as our vets won't go that far. I assume I'd just google search some nearby practises and ring them to sort something out?

I intend to be present at the vetting... can they still do a 5 stage if there is no menage at the yard where the horse lives? He's being boxed to another yard this week so I can try him in a menage but he'd have to be vetted at his own yard.
 
AshTay said:
What's the norm in these situations? I hear of people going to look at a horse and buying it the same day and coming home with it. Do people leave deposits if they plan to buy subject to the horse passing the vetting?

How many times do people normally try a horse before they buy?
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I would never buy a horse without riding it on the flat and over jumps and without having a full vetting. With my present horse whom I have owned for six and a half years (horse in siggy) I got called on the Thursday from the dealer who told me "your horse has arrived". He told me the week before that he had a horse in mind for me that he was importing from abroad - I can remember my annoyance when he rang to tell me he'd arrived without discussing it with me! I remember my annoyance and told him in no uncertain terms that if I didn't like the look of this horse I wouldn't even sit on him and he said that he knew I'd love him, but if I didn't he'd have no trouble selling him!! (Looking back now it makes me smile). I went to see Bailey that day (had the day off work anyway) and he had arrived two hours before from Holland having come over on a twelve hour road and ferry journey so I didn't ride him then, but it was love at first sight. I tried him on the saturday in the dealers tack, tried him again on the sunday in my tack, had him vetted on the Tuesday and he came home with me on the Thursday exactly seven days and 7 hours after first setting eyes on him!!!!! Jock Merriman is an excellent dealer, and very fair. I gave him an exact list of what I wanted from a horse and he came up with my lovely handsome lad and six years later I am still beaming.

I left the dealer £20. Bailey is the 6th horse I've bought, the first we sold on, and the previous four to Bailey we very sadly lost. With all the horses I tried them at least once, and all of the vendors were given no more than £20 as a deposit for 'goodwill subject to passing the five stage vetting'.
 
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applecart14 said:
I left the dealer £20. Bailey is the 6th horse I've bought, the first we sold on, and the previous four to Bailey we very sadly lost. With all the horses I tried them at least once, and all of the vendors were given no more than £20 as a deposit for 'goodwill subject to passing the five stage vetting'.
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That's interesting! I was thinking a deposit would be in the region of £100, not £20!
 
Sorry for hijacking thread but I thought you'd have to put more than £20 down (currently horse hunting) so would it depend on price of horse & would you deduct it from the price of horse??
 
I recently accepted a deposit of 10% of the sale price, subject to vetting. This then comes off the price of the horse.

So £4,000 sale price = £400 deposit, with remaining £3,600 payable once the vetting has been passed (or refunded if it fails!).

Both buyer and I were happy with this :)

ETA They tried my horse twice, once in the school & then came back again to hack, and I kept the horse over the weekend before the vetting the following Tuesday. As others have said I think this is perfectly reasonable and a deposit shows you're serious, especially if the seller if turning other viewings away to hold the horse for you :)
 
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with a five star vetting i think that you will need an area to exercise the horse for aprox 10 mins so that the vet can check heart and breathing after work, lungeing will do, and a dark stable so that the eyes can be inspected in a dark enviroment. Try to use a vet different from the one that the vendor uses, a level hard surface will be needed to trot up on and flexion tests (personally i dont like thease as if they are done roughly they can make any horse seem lame).
 
I had my boy on 3 month trial as both his owner and I agreed we needed to be sure. The day before i had to decide, he reared up twice whilst throwing a nappy strop. We talked at length and decided i would get his saddle checked and replaced (at my own cost) and have him a further month. She didn't have any money from me but i forked out for a new saddle and that showed her my commitment to trying to make it work. Brought him in the end (minus his old saddle that was pinching him at an appriopriate price) for a figure that was agreed before the trial. It helps to have an honest conversation with the owners, they should be as commited to finding a good partnership as you are.
 
When I have bought horses before I have tried them and then left a deposit subject to vetting. Depending on the distance I may see them once, twice or three times just to make sure they are OK in all the situations I want to use them in (hacking, schooling, jumping etc). It may be worth asking the seller who their vet is as legally the vet will have to disclose if they have seen the horse before and why (always handy to get a full run down and go into things with eyes wide open!).

I usually leave a 10% deposit and have done so in both cash and cheque, I must admit I preferred leaving a cheque as you just never know when you leave cash but it worked out ok for me...
 
Interesting subject and one close to my heart after this week! I hope things go well for the OP.

As a very occasional seller, I don't mind how many times someone comes to see the horse or sends emails to learn more; I certainly have no worries about any vettings either, I welcome them; I would just ask the buyer to not use my own vets that way it's a totally independent assessment for both 'sides'.

What I do object to from buyers is arriving an hour early for a second look then helping themselves to said horse without waiting for me to come outside. It's common politeness to come and greet the seller before going into the box with the horse in my books or am I just old fashioned? I wouldn't dream of doing it to anyone, particularly those I've only met once before.

Don't play on how much transport is going to cost you as an excuse to get the price down; it sets alarm bells ringing that you may not be able to properly care for the horse. If you want to haggle, that's not a problem at all, I'm sure all sellers expect to but be open and ask what will you take, not try to play on the seller's soft heart.

If you're asked for a deposit to show faith that you are serious about the horse you have two options; either pay one (subject to vetting of course if you want one otherwise returnable in full is something happens to the horse before collection -which shouldn't be too far away not stretch into the distance without a firm date) or don't and walk away. Don't say a deposit is not a problem and then do nothing about it yet still go on about how fantastic the horse is and you're so looking forward to getting him home; then a few emails later still say the deposit is not a problem but still do nothing about it in spite of the seller giving you details of how they want it paid and the timescale of how long before collection of the horse.

I had many emails saying (and I do try to be with anything, not just selling a horse) how friendly, approachable and helpful I have been to them and how the horse will help them so much which is fair enough but please don't play on your illness, don't try to make me feel guilty and sorry for you, manipulation like that won't work, sorry.

To have a phone call to say the horse will be collected at the weekend is fine but the buyer still hasn't made any arrangement to pay the seller (coming over with the cash is not an option owing to distance) so bank transfer it has to be which takes upto 4 days and still might not have cleared before the intended collection. Do you expect me to let the horse go without being paid for, I don't think so chum.

To later have an email to ask that the horse (a 3 yr old so not broken anyway) be on a 2 - 3 weeks trial - just to see that he settles in and that we get on together and the money could go into a holding account until the trial is over! If you want a trial, ask for it right from the start so everyone knows where they are, not leave it until the last minute as a refusal often offends both parties.

At that point my husband scraped me off the ceiling.......













The horse is not going there, that's for sure!

There are fantastic buyers - and sellers out there who respect each other; there are also rogues too of course and then you get others that think they can play on your feelings because they think (and could be right in some cases but that is no reason to try to take advantage of them) you might be desperate to sell. Both buyers and sellers just have to try to sort the wheat from the chaff, I'm afraid.


ETA: If I'm buying then I will always ask the seller if they would like a deposit; if so, I will leave/send them a cheque but I will always pay in cash on collection.
 
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Maesfen - was that all the same person?? People can be so strange. I would never do any of those things. If he's not right when I try him again this week then I will say there and then and walk away (and it will have been about a week since I first emailed about him). If he is, I will give a deposit and arrange vetting for as soon as possible. The seller has offered to deliver so they can see where he is going and we both think it will be good for him as he is quite a sensitive soul. If he passes vetting I will want him as soon as can be arranged and already have the cash ready and waiting.

Thanks everyone for the wishes of good luck!
 
I agree with whoever said that 2 visits plus vetting is fairly standard. We've done this with all our horses, apart from the most recent purchase who we loaned for six weeks before buying. When we were buying my mare, our first experience of horse buying, the first visit was just me and my mum (I was 11 at the time). The second visit we took my RI as my mum isn't horsey and I was obviously young and quite inexperienced, so although we'd both liked her, we wanted a professional opinion. RI liked her and I fell even more in love with the mare at the second viewing, so we arranged for a vetting. The owner actually had to leave halfway through the vetting so me and my mum had to sort out taking pony back to her yard and putting her to bed. If we'd had a horsebox we could have walked off with her then and there - I don't think sellers are that trusting anymore :p. The seller seemed fine with all of this and could see that we were genuine :)
 
marmalade76 said:
Crikey M, did you manage to keep your temper?
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Lol, with great difficulty, luckily the last bit was by email so I could vent at home with just hubby and dogs hiding from me until it was safe to come out again but I had to cool off before I replied.
Great shame as I believed he would have been a good owner for him but I wasn't prepared to be strung along any longer with the goalposts changing all the time. Enough was enough.
 
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