Buying a horse - ownership query

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Melvyn

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Thinking of buying a horse, however, have come across a discrepancy in what seller is telling me & not sure if I'm being naive.

Having checked the horse out on breed society website, the database is telling me horse is owned by a different name to that of the seller, selling the horse.

Unfortunately there's no contact info on database, so cannot contact person recorded as owner on database direct.

Also, not sure if this is a coincidence but, the length of time the seller says they've owned horse matches that of when other named person became the official owner of horse that is being sold.

Do fellow forumites think this could be an error on the breed society database & should I get in touch with breed society to check?

Any helpful suggestions gratefully received.
 
Depending on the breed society transfer can be up to £40, I have a couple that are not in my name as we were moving house and I didn't want to pay twice and often TB passports are never updated. I would look at the flu jab stamps from the vet, that is a better indication of where its been, I have a well travelled pony that has been out on loan a couple of times, so he has stamps from his travels.
 
The other thing to think about is that this could be a horse out on loan being sold by the loanees... Could you have a look on Facebook for the person registered as the owner? Check the area the horses is in, in the search, and you may find them...
 
Ask them say is the horse registered with the breed society under their name as you will need to change ownership?
 
Yep, ask the person selling. It is a good idea to look up details if they are selling a registered horse and it is up to them to explain the differences.

Sometimes someone buys a horse but doesn't bother to get the name changed ..................
 
Some people never get their horses ownership details updated on the passport, so it could be something simple like that. As some else has said look at the vaccination stamps, google the registered owners name and ask buyers.
It could be something sinister like loaners selling or it could be innocent.
 
so many people just do not bother updating passports, it could be something as simple as that, but you need to check it out as far as you can
 
Thx everyone for your great advice. Had a look on Defra's website, it's quite clear that when a person purchases a horse, they have 30 days to update ownership details. I guess therefore, if someone is selling a horse that doesn't have their name on the passport, is not the legal owner.
 
You can still be the legal owner and not have updated the passport. I have to confess I haven't done mine but I bought my mare fair and square, have a receipt and e-mails with her previous owner, vet and livery bills to prove it.
 
Melvyn said:
Thx everyone for your great advice. Had a look on Defra's website, it's quite clear that when a person purchases a horse, they have 30 days to update ownership details. I guess therefore, if someone is selling a horse that doesn't have their name on the passport, is not the legal owner.
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It would be nice if it were that straightforward, wouldn't it? ;o)

Passport Situation 101:
1) Passports are not proof of ownership and 2) due to the abjectly farcical state of (non)enforcement of passport regulations in the UK, it's relatively common to find instances where they haven't been updated after a sale (or house move, name change etc); with breed societies there's the added factor that it usually costs the buyer to update the passport. You will find all kinds of people from all walks of life in this situation - not just wrong 'uns.

However - if you've found that the seller says they've had the horse for the same dates specified on the breed society's database but under a completely different name (not maiden name, partner, parent etc.), that discounts the possibility of the passport just not being updated. It may well be that they are selling on behalf of a client or friend and the only way to get a better handle on that is by having a clear conversation with them. If you're not happy after that, there's your cue to walk if your instincts aren't right.
 
I owned a sheltie, it was never changed to my name in the passport as the people I got it from had never changed it, not the person before them. The original named owner in the passport never responded but the breed society wouldn't change it until they did..
 
Melvyn said:
Thx everyone for your great advice. Had a look on Defra's website, it's quite clear that when a person purchases a horse, they have 30 days to update ownership details. I guess therefore, if someone is selling a horse that doesn't have their name on the passport, is not the legal owner.
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Passport is not proof of ownership - one of many reasons why many have total contempt for the system, and don't care to hand over £30 per horse to keep up the charade.


Just because an owner hasn't updated the passport, doesn't stop them being the owner. What you need to see is a bill of sale or invoice. This applies regardless of passport. There's nothing stopping anyone applying for a passport on a horse that doesn't belong to them (alas).
 
EmmasMummy said:
I owned a sheltie, it was never changed to my name in the passport as the people I got it from had never changed it, not the person before them. The original named owner in the passport never responded but the breed society wouldn't change it until they did..
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Yep, same with the WPCS, our pony was bought for my husband's god daughter and her mother had to write to every previous owner and ask them to sign it before the WPCS would change it to her name. Each had filled in their names and addresses but had failed to sign it (or update the WPCS, it seems). It cost me £10 to have her changed to my name and you run the risk of the passport getting lost, just two reasons for people not to bother.

With another, when I changed his I didn't have to send the passport off, they sent me a sticker to stick in the address section and told me I MUST stick it over the address of the people I bought him from 'cause he was still registered with the people who had had the passport issued and I was the official second owner. The people I'd bought him from had filled it in but never had it officially updated. He'd had at least two homes in between, neither had bothered to fill it in.
 
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marmalade76 said:
Yep, same with the WPCS, our pony was bought for my husband's god daughter and her mother had to write to every previous owner and ask them to sign it before the WPCS would change it to her name. Each had filled in their names and addresses but had failed to sign it (or update the WPCS, it seems). It cost me £10 to have her changed to my name and you run the risk of the passport getting lost, just two reasons for people not to bother.
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In our case there was apparently something shady between the first owners - not theft, but a disagreement re oner #2's treatment of the pony.
 
I bought one where previous owner had bill of sale etc but had not updated passport. Previous owner was no longer at the recorded address so couldn't change to my name.
 
honetpot said:
Depending on the breed society transfer can be up to £40, I have a couple that are not in my name as we were moving house and I didn't want to pay twice and often TB passports are never updated. I would look at the flu jab stamps from the vet, that is a better indication of where its been, I have a well travelled pony that has been out on loan a couple of times, so he has stamps from his travels.
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This. A lot of people don't change the name when buying a horse as it can be pretty expensive. One of my horses only ever had his first owner/breeder in his passport and even though I know of at least 2 homes since (including the one I got him from) - nobody else has ever registered as his owner, I asked the last owner and she just said its too expensive especially when you own a few horses. It was £50 and TBH I have never got round to putting him in my name either!! Ive just written my details in, but Im not paying £50 just for a stamp...
 
Whatever one may think of the p[assport system one is legally obliged to keep it up-dated. This is particularly important if the horse is to be transported. It is just not worth the aggravation not having it's passport updated.

Also be very careful if the horse is being sold on behalf of someone else as you loose your statutory rights under consumer law. You need to be dealing with the true owner.
 
The only thing I would add is be careful this isnt a sale by a yardowner due to livery not paying debts. I once visited a horse a couple of times, decided to buy subject to vetting and the day before the vetting the "seller" mentioned it wasnt his horse and he was selling it to pay a livery debt. You couldnt see me for dust!!
 
Just to point out, you can get the horse owner details updates even if there have been numerous owners I between who you can not contact.
I had to do it with a pony I bought. It had gone through 3 homes before coming to me bit none had updated it, the original breeder was still the registered owner.
I had to go to a solicitor , right a letter explaining when and where I bough him, that ones now legal owner with a receipt.
It was signed and witnessed and then sent to wpcs, the ownership was then changed to my name.
Simples!
Not expensive either!
 
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