Buying a horse. Pay loaner or owner? Best payment methods.

Palindrome said:
He/she said a bankers check which is another way of calling it and that money was taken off his/her account straight away.
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Tis true, Having said that though a bankers cheque is only payable to the named recipient however some true bank draughts are payable to the bearer.These are very rare nowadays due to the money laundering rules.
These are another reason owners dont like taking cash nowadays.
I just checked it cost £17 for special delivery with £10000 consequential lose cover ,a small price to pay . Rcorded delivery gives you no cover at all.
 
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I can't cancel it like a personal cheque
The money has been taken from my account. I will go into Santander tomorrow for advice. I'm hoping Christmas rush has delayed delivery. Tracking says they still have it and not signed yet. Only recipient can cancel. I've Google it. So I just need to ask bank how I stand if itst lost. Then if I can get money back I can sort it.
 
So it is still with royal mail. Much better than them saying they have delivered it and Owner saying not received it. You know they haven't received it, it hasn't been delivered. If they wanted payment by a specific day that had to allow another payment method, especially just before Christmas!
 
Agree. It's just owner is ringing and messaging me, saying where is it. And not happy. Please god it arrives tomorrow. Then I can breathe. Never again.
 
popsdosh said:
What are you going to do if the police turn up because I can assure you they will take her as you have admitted that you have not paid for her! It is not the owners fault they have not received your money and why should they be out of pocket. Did the post office not ask the value of what you were sending? Iin my experience they usually do. For future reference use special delivery and not recorded as you have more protection.
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There is a snowballs chance in hell of this happening! They dont take back horses that have actually been stolen on loan, they are absolutely not going to get involved in this!
 
Right, I apologised for posting as I did before, but this was why.

OP - Did you get any form of surety that the owner was who she said she was?

A bankers draft is like cash. It goes out of your account immediately and if lost, there is very little that can be done as far as I know....I bought a TV from the midlands when I was much younger and thought a bankers draft was safe. It wasn't. I was scammed and lost the money because guess what, the seller told me it hadn't arrived so I felt bad and they had enough time to cash it and disappear.

Have you considered that this person has had the money and will take the horse back and do it all over again to someone else?

That's not me being overly suspicious....it happens, it would be foolish not to consider everything when a horse and large sum of money are at stake.

I really hope this can be resolved xx
 
As an aside no GP would ever confirm or deny that a person was on their list or not, unless it was for a health related matter, to a fellow professional. If they did they would be breaching the strict rules of confidentiality.
 
FestiveG said:
As an aside no GP would ever confirm or deny that a person was on their list or not, unless it was for a health related matter, to a fellow professional. If they did they would be breaching the strict rules of confidentiality.
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Oh god now....but professionals can verify identity...it's good enough for the passport office or it was when I last got a passport. It could be any professional...GP just came to mind first.
 
It is indeed ok for the passport office, I have done a few myself :) but gp's can't just tell anyone, unless they have written permission in front of them and some would charge!
 
FestiveG said:
It is indeed ok for the passport office, I have done a few myself :) but gp's can't just tell anyone, unless they have written permission in front of them and some would charge!
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Forgot about the charge. I think I used a policeman and a solicitor when I've needed to.
 
Jinglesmells said:
Have you considered that this person has had the money and will take the horse back and do it all over again to someone else?

That's not me being overly suspicious....it happens, it would be foolish not to consider everything when a horse and large sum of money are at stake.
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It seems highly unlikely that the owner has received the cheque - the PO say they haven't got a signature yet. I would expect that the bank can tell OP if the cheque has been cashed. I have paid for horses in the past with a similar cheque from the Building Society with no trouble at all.
The real problem here is that the owner did not trust the loaner to pass on cash, none of us know why that was but there may have been a very good reason.

I hope you get it sorted out satisfactorily, OP
 
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Just to point out the post is really slow at the moment, I'm still waiting for something that was sent on the 3rd.
 
I sent something via Royal Mail signed for recently and it is still showing as with them when I check online but the recipient has confirmed to me that it has been received! I am sure this isn't the case with your bank draft but just be aware there tracking seems to be less than perfect!
 
Jinglesmells said:
Have you considered that this person has had the money and will take the horse back and do it all over again to someone else?

That's not me being overly suspicious....it happens, it would be foolish not to consider everything when a horse and large sum of money are at stake.

I really hope this can be resolved xx
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OMG have you considered maybe the original owner feels the same about the OP in my mind the OP has caused more of the issue here ! They were not prepared to pay for the horse until they physically had it .The other party agreed to them sending a bankers cheque even though the horse will have left.
Who really should be more worried!!!!
No horse leaves my yard until the money is cleared into my account if the buyer doesnt like that tough they dont have to have the horse.
There appears that some are looking for a conspiracy theory here when one does not exist the original owner in my mind has been generous in what they offered and I am sure the OP will acknowledge that . So please dont make insinuations about somebody not on this forum to defend themselves!!!
 
Jane_Lou said:
I sent something via Royal Mail signed for recently and it is still showing as with them when I check online but the recipient has confirmed to me that it has been received! I am sure this isn't the case with your bank draft but just be aware there tracking seems to be less than perfect!
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Talking to my postman as he will leave signed for sometimes even if i am not about. However special delivery has to be physically received by the recipient and signed for.
 
exracehorse said:
Agree. It's just owner is ringing and messaging me, saying where is it. And not happy. Please god it arrives tomorrow. Then I can breathe. Never again.
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It's christmas FGS if the old owner expects anything to arrive in 2days by standard 1st class post they are living on another planet. Recorded delivery is just that, a signature from anybody at that address upon delivery, it doesn't make things arrive any quicker. OP get firm with old owner and tell them to stop hassling you. Give them the tracking number and tell them to be patient. I wouldn't be answering my phone TBH if they were ringing that much.

They had the option of meeting you and being handed cash, they chose not to, now they'll have to live with the consequences of that ie trust the post office deliver soon. I assume the old owner didn't specify payment to be sent by insured delivery and to arrive within 2days? If they were daft enough to let a horse leave them before payment was received that's their lookout. I'd have insisted on payment by bank transfer and horse collected same day after money received.

If the cheque is lost in the post (its Christmas, it happens, you were daft not to insure it) then its your loss and you still owe for the horse. But I don't know whether anyone could legally make you pay. I guess old owner would have to prove the horse still belonged to them and you have a bank statement showing the money has left you account or I guess you could just say "what horse, where?" if you really wanted to and leave the other side to prove there was even a sale. If bank want proof the cheque is lost, is the recepient confirming that it never arrived and tracking number saying the same, along with it never being cashed, enough proof? I don't think anyone will accept a "lost" claim after 2days though, that's unrealistic.

Good luck with it all.
 
Get real S & s its not the previous owners responsibility to go out of their way to get paid . It is the responsibilty of the purchaser to make sure it is paid for.
At the end of the day it hasnt so the horse still belongs to the old owner.Of course they can make you pay as they have not received payment for it! What proof of purchase is the money leaving the bank acc when it was not paid directly to the owner.what you are suggesting is theft and fraud and I am sure the OP has no intention of doing either. I get more disillusioned every day on here by what people suggest others should do.
I am sure the two parties can sort it out and shouting about it on this forum will not help. However as I stated earlier right from the first post this whole episode has had disaster written all over it.
 
popsdosh said:
OMG have you considered maybe the original owner feels the same about the OP in my mind the OP has caused more of the issue here ! They were not prepared to pay for the horse until they physically had it .The other party agreed to them sending a bankers cheque even though the horse will have left.
Who really should be more worried!!!!
No horse leaves my yard until the money is cleared into my account if the buyer doesnt like that tough they dont have to have the horse.
There appears that some are looking for a conspiracy theory here when one does not exist the original owner in my mind has been generous in what they offered and I am sure the OP will acknowledge that . So please dont make insinuations about somebody not on this forum to defend themselves!!!
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But the previous owner wouldn't accept any of the more 'normal' methods of payment!
 
You paid for the horse using a method requested by the seller and now she's hassling you? Tell her to jog on, give her the tracking number and let her chase Royal Mail for it. Does she not know it's Christmas time? :D
That said though there's no way I'd have sent the horse without having received payment. PayPal would've been safer if the horse was already in your care. Cash safer still. What a performance for all parties.
 
ester said:
But the previous owner wouldn't accept any of the more 'normal' methods of payment!
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They would have taken direct transfer which the OP was unwilling to arrange I think you will find.
Just to clarify above the horse is not paid for until that cheque is cashed people are forgetting that. All try and think what you would do in the owners situation most if not all would not have let the horse leave.
 
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Sugar_and_Spice said:
It's christmas FGS if the old owner expects anything to arrive in 2days by standard 1st class post they are living on another planet. Recorded delivery is just that, a signature from anybody at that address upon delivery, it doesn't make things arrive any quicker. OP get firm with old owner and tell them to stop hassling you. Give them the tracking number and tell them to be patient. I wouldn't be answering my phone TBH if they were ringing that much.

They had the option of meeting you and being handed cash, they chose not to, now they'll have to live with the consequences of that ie trust the post office deliver soon. I assume the old owner didn't specify payment to be sent by insured delivery and to arrive within 2days? If they were daft enough to let a horse leave them before payment was received that's their lookout. I'd have insisted on payment by bank transfer and horse collected same day after money received.

If the cheque is lost in the post (its Christmas, it happens, you were daft not to insure it) then its your loss and you still owe for the horse. But I don't know whether anyone could legally make you pay. I guess old owner would have to prove the horse still belonged to them and you have a bank statement showing the money has left you account or I guess you could just say "what horse, where?" if you really wanted to and leave the other side to prove there was even a sale. If bank want proof the cheque is lost, is the recepient confirming that it never arrived and tracking number saying the same, along with it never being cashed, enough proof? I don't think anyone will accept a "lost" claim after 2days though, that's unrealistic.

Good luck with it all.
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Little bit shocked by some of the responses directed at the previous owner, particularly the one above.

We don't know the reason why the owner couldn't attend the sale to take cash, so I don't necessarily think it is fair to say they're being unreasonable to expect payment via the method agreed now the OP has the horse.

If the owner were the one on here now saying "I sold my horse from its loan home but still haven't received payment" everyone would be warning them that the buyer might be a scammer, particularly if the buyer started getting hostile when chased for payment/started saying they would have to be taken to court to return the horse if payment doesn't arrive.

Personally I feel it is down to the OP to ensure the payment reaches the seller. If I were in the OP shoes I would have sent the bankers draft via recorded next day delivery and insured it appropriately, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Now there is an issue I would be keeping lines of communication between OP and the seller open and keep the seller regularly updated on the progress. If you don't the situation is likely to turn sour very quickly as to all intents and purposes you now have a horse in your possession that you haven't paid for and the seller has no idea when they are likely to receive payment.
 
I'm not sure why you didn't just use online banking and do a transfer direct to the owner that way? You could have even stood in the yard and completed it as you picked up the horse. I apologise if I have missed this point somewhere amongst the thread.

Anyway, hindsight and all that. But I would be keeping up communication with the owner, regarding the cheque. It may be a pain in the ass, but you have your horse, and they don't yet have their money, so a bit of reassurance, and contact, as well as keeping in contact with the post etc would be a sensible, and courteous thing to do. If the seller is not happy with word of mouth, if you can track the progress of this if it is recorded delivery, I would either give her the appropriate details to track herself, or take screen shots and send these to her in the meantime.

I hope it is sorted before Christmas, for both you and the sellers sake, so that you can enjoy horse and they can relax that they have had payment.

ETA- Sorry not cheque- bankers note!
 
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popsdosh said:
Get real S & s its not the previous owners responsibility to go out of their way to get paid . It is the responsibilty of the purchaser to make sure it is paid for.
At the end of the day it hasnt so the horse still belongs to the old owner.Of course they can make you pay as they have not received payment for it! What proof of purchase is the money leaving the bank acc when it was not paid directly to the owner.what you are suggesting is theft and fraud and I am sure the OP has no intention of doing either. I get more disillusioned every day on here by what people suggest others should do. .
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You get real. People steal things all the time and sometimes they get away with it. If you sell something (anything) and want to ensure you're paid, you get the payment before releasing the goods. Anything else us opening yourself uo ti a potential load of trouble.

The average car is worth a few thousand, so is the average horse, both are property in the eyes of the law. Who on here would ask a friend to sell a car for them, letting the new owner drive it home with the promise of a cheque to the cars old owner in the post?

I'm not calling the OP a thief or suggesting (s)he should commit fraud. I was musing on the likelihood of being made to pay again, or not. Do you think all those horses successfully stolen on loan are recovered by police, even when their whereabouts are known? They're not. It's one persons word against another's as to whether there was a sale, who the horse currently belongs to, whether any money paid was the full purchase price or whether the horse was gifted etc. The police often don't seem that interested.

I wouldn't steal anything ever and I'm guessing that under normal circumstances neither would the OP. But (s)he has already lost the purchase price, potentially for good if the seller doesn't help with the banks requirements for cancelling the cheque. Which considering a letter is needed stating they no longer want the bankers cheque, the seller may not do for fear of never being paid.

The OP has already stated their intention to keep the horse and let the seller take them to court for recovery of the purchase price if they wish (and if the cheque doesn't turn up, which it mist likely will, its only been 2days FGS). I don't have an opinion on whether I agree with that action or not. I can see how both sides have acted in good faith and why neither side would want to lose out. All I can think is I wouldn't have been so foolish in the 21st century as to believe that expensive transactions should be carried out on "faith" only.
 
I went to the post office. They feel I'm panicking as its only 4 working days since it was sent recorded det. Its no longer at my post office branch. I went to bank. Only recipient can cancel. She would need to send me a letter stating she no longer wanted the bank cheque. The bank will then refund to my account. Ive spoken to owner and advised her. In fact member of staff kindly rang her and said a cheque was raised. Ive screen shot sent her my bank statement and tracking slip from PO. It can and will be sorted. It may even arrive this afternoon. She has my address. Yard address. It's a mess I agree. And in hindsight should have insisted on her being present at sale or sent via transfer. She asked for payment to be sent which I did. Xmas rush has slowed delivery down. I do feel awful for the owner. I'm keeping her in the loop. She is unfortunately on the other side of the country. It hasn't been cashed or signed for. The bank holds the money until it's cashed in their account. If it is lost, and its only been 4 working days, a letter from owner advising she doesn't want it anymore, will put the money back in my account and then I can get bank to do a transfer to her account. I've told her to send me a letter anyway so I have that option to rectify. She's guc me her account details. Even if I transfer money today into her account she could still cash the cheque. So would need letter first. But hopefully it will still arrive any day.
 
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