canteron
Well-Known Member
Is it a problem and is it difficult to get a passport?
Buying a horse without a passport
- Thread starter canteron
- Start date
orionstar
Well-Known Member
It is if the horse belongs to someone else and thats the reason it hasnt got one!
Snowysadude
Well-Known Member
Its illegal, the owner has to get it passported before selling!
FaldingwoodLivery
Well-Known Member
It's not difficult to get a passport, vet comes out, fills in form, microchips, sends form off and you get a passport.
However.....I wouldn't buy without one. Big question is why hasn't it got one??? I'd be worries it was stolen??
However.....I wouldn't buy without one. Big question is why hasn't it got one??? I'd be worries it was stolen??
competitiondiva
Well-Known Member
I think it depends on the age of the horse as to whether I would be worried it was stolen etc, if old then probably before passports became the norm if you get me....
But yes it's illegal to sell a horse without a passport and it's illegal to travel a horse without one!! So if the owner refused to get one done, then you couldn't transport it home anyway!!
As said, no it's not hard to get one, there are loads of issuing bodies that do them, just get your vet out to do the markings diagram and microchip, then send the registration form and the chip and markings details off and a couple of weeks later you get a passport.
But yes it's illegal to sell a horse without a passport and it's illegal to travel a horse without one!! So if the owner refused to get one done, then you couldn't transport it home anyway!!
As said, no it's not hard to get one, there are loads of issuing bodies that do them, just get your vet out to do the markings diagram and microchip, then send the registration form and the chip and markings details off and a couple of weeks later you get a passport.
canteron
Well-Known Member
No, I don't think its stolen. It has been living in a field near to me for the past 5 years and belongs to a bit of a rogue, but don't think he steals. Going to put an offer in to buy it as it suffers from occasional neglect but is a really nice chap. (Have posted with full story of this chap before).
Is it true it is illegal to sell unpassported???? Don't thing his owner is particularly good on paperwork type stuff (!) so can't imagine he would be bothered to do it. Best talk to my vet in the morning!
Is it true it is illegal to sell unpassported???? Don't thing his owner is particularly good on paperwork type stuff (!) so can't imagine he would be bothered to do it. Best talk to my vet in the morning!
Cuffey
Well-Known Member
Yorkshire dumpling
Well-Known Member
it is illegal to sell a horse with out a passport, and it is also now illegal to keep a horse (to my knowledge) without a micro-chipp and passport. i think that the guide lines are, that all foals and horses that dont have a passport/ a correct passport, must be micro-chipped and have a valid passport. to but people do still do it, i bought a mare just last week (3yrs old) with no passport. it has been a little harder to get her one as she is an appaloosa so wanted her to have an appy passport by a society. but you can get a bog standard passport, and they are pretty simple.
i would say insist he gets a passport before you buy it, or if you really have to take the price which he wants down by about £100 then it covers costs of your vet coming out, chipping and possibly sending off for your passport (depending on where you send it to)
i would have to agree with others and say why has he not already got a passport? and maybe worth trying to find that out off the owner. also find out if he is already micro-chipped (you can do that when you get him vetted before you buy) most passports, you need to know the dam and sires names too.
plus you would be breaking the law to move him anywhere without a passport, which technically means, you cant hack out or show or leave the boundary of where he is kept without one
please dont rush into buying it. and do your research before you say you want him xx
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babymare
Well-Known Member
with regards to passports all horses are to have one regadless of age. Micro chipping - i believe so please correct if wrong - it is foals born a certain year. My mare is passported but not chipped though it is being done in near future but only in case she is stolen as my baby wont leave my care alive due to her past and sight god love her 
Sorry if a horse isnt passported i would question why
Sorry if a horse isnt passported i would question whycompetitiondiva
Well-Known Member
Any passport applied for after june 2009 needs the horse to be microchipped...
lexiedhb
Well-Known Member
The bottom line is BUYING A HORSE WITHOUT A PASSPORT IS ILLEGAL and is reportable to DEFRA
el_Snowflakes
Well-Known Member
YES definatley illegal to sell a horse without a passport
cm2581
Well-Known Member
It's not. Selling is illegal, being the purchaser does not mean you are breaking the law! Ridiculous!!
Ommadawn
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be too suspiscious of this horse not having a passportgoing by what you have said about the owner, but it is effectively an offence to buy an unpassported horse now as well as to sell. As others have said it will also need to be microchipped before it is passported.
If you are going to put in an offer for the horse it is probbaly worth saying that your price will include the cost of a passport and 'helping' the owner to make the application, then you will know it is done properly...
If you are going to put in an offer for the horse it is probbaly worth saying that your price will include the cost of a passport and 'helping' the owner to make the application, then you will know it is done properly...
joeanne
Well-Known Member
It is indeed illegal to sell a horse without a passport, and I am sure you can get a hefty old fine for doing so.
However it is NOT illegal to BUY a horse without a passport.
I have heard if you have a holding number, defra can swoop and ask for the passports of all animals that require one. To not produce the documents again can carry a fine.
Animals that require passporting after the deadline, must have a microchip to get said passport.
Animals that already had a passport before the chipping rule came in, do not need to be chipped although for security and identification purposes, this is a wise thing to do.
Dolcé
Well-Known Member
Sorry but you are wrong here! When we bought a horse at auction with a false passport I was told by trading standards that we could be prosecuted and fined for moving a horse to our property that didn't have a valid passport. They obviously didn't take action against us because of the circumstances but they could have if they had been so inclined. The law is an ass!!
martlin
Well-Known Member
There has been a change made to legislation, and it is now also illegal to buy without a passport.
Millyard Rejects
Well-Known Member
It also depends on your local authority with these cases. How many of the yards you keep your horses on get checked to see if passports are on site with YO's and near to hand for when vet has to fill anything in?
Ive 3 ponies, none had passports when they came to me. I applied the normal way-got vet out form sent off and passports returned to me.
If you buy from an auction then yes it should have passport and the trading standards/defra should mayb look at the sale house as been at fault for allowing unpassported horse to go through the sale ring in first place?
If you buy privatly the horse should also have a passport.
In the OP's case the guy who has this horse is maybe not up with modern practices on paperwork for horses! I wouldnt not take on a horse in these circumstances but would very much try to help this guy realise the law changes and will be a good way of wangling cost of buying down.
Not all unpassported horses are stolen horses BTW, many are bred by elder persons unaware of the changes in the law.
JMHO
Ive 3 ponies, none had passports when they came to me. I applied the normal way-got vet out form sent off and passports returned to me.
If you buy from an auction then yes it should have passport and the trading standards/defra should mayb look at the sale house as been at fault for allowing unpassported horse to go through the sale ring in first place?
If you buy privatly the horse should also have a passport.
In the OP's case the guy who has this horse is maybe not up with modern practices on paperwork for horses! I wouldnt not take on a horse in these circumstances but would very much try to help this guy realise the law changes and will be a good way of wangling cost of buying down.
Not all unpassported horses are stolen horses BTW, many are bred by elder persons unaware of the changes in the law.
JMHO
Clippy
Well-Known Member
It sounds to me like that horse needs a decent home now, so irrespective of whether or not it has a passport, if it were me and I like the horse and was certain it wasn't stolen (which i'm sure it's not) then i'd buy it and get it passported straight away.
There are lots of horses coming into the Country unpassported then getting chipped and passported here and there are plenty of passport issuers.
If the owners wants to sell, you may miss out. Just be aware it will cost you a vets visit to microchip then the cost to passport.
There are lots of horses coming into the Country unpassported then getting chipped and passported here and there are plenty of passport issuers.
If the owners wants to sell, you may miss out. Just be aware it will cost you a vets visit to microchip then the cost to passport.
MochaDun
Well-Known Member
I know of someone who took on a horse without a passport. She applied for her own but in the time it took for the forms to be completed and the passport to come through the horse was seriously injured through a kick and had to be PTS after a week or so's treatment. The nightmare it caused her with insurance/vets/ etc due to not being able to prove ownership of the horse due to the lack of passport and the fact that the previous owner had had no passport was not something I would want to wish on anyone so there are other factors to consider beyond the legality of it all with DEFRA etc.
*hic*
village idiot :D
Having just taken on a pony that badly needed a new home and whose elderly owner has not had her passported some of the above makes scary reading. However we have already booked her in for a vet visit to do her passport, chip and jabs so hopefully we will get all legal before anything happens - or DEFRA turn up! They do usually ring to make an appointment to see us but the level of detail they have wanted can be frightening - service and test records for my lorry, worming records for the cats, as well as the horse passports (and a grilling on why a couple of them aren't jabbed as well as hassle about why one of them is jabbed 6 monthly rather than annually), I'm not quite sure what those have to do with the pigs and sheep which are registered to our holding!
lexiedhb
Well-Known Member
erm no... it is illegal to keep a horse without a passport, therefore if you buy one it is illegal.... not ridiculous, and not rocket science. I mean- moving a horse without a passport is illegal, so what is the buyer going to do..... purchase said horse and leave it where it is????
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QassiaDeTouzaine
Well-Known Member
Personally I would not touch a horse without a passport- especially if the horse is older. There will undoubtedly be a reason for this, for example an operation that could hinder a sale. Also be suspicious of older horses with new passports; a horse I tried had a new passport (apparently the owner had 'lost' the original) and after some digging around we discovered the horse had previously had numerous kissing spine operations. It is just too easy to cover up things like this simply by buying a new passport- surely this makes the whole passport system pointless?! I think regulations on this really need to be reconsidered! x
LynnWalker
Well-Known Member
Op you say this horse has been with this bloke around 5 years? Well my horse was stolen around 4 1/2 years ago - he would be around 20 ish by now and I want him to come home. Im not saying ( obviously) this horse is stolen or not lawfully his to sell, but I do believe any responsible owner would have a passport for their horse!
The passports are a joke, we all know that - my Toby was passported and microchipped - yet probably was sold on with a new passport and the microchip not checked. If anyone can just have a new one written up - whats the point?
But the law is the law and if this horse hasnt got one, I dont this you should buy it until the current owner gets it one.
The passports are a joke, we all know that - my Toby was passported and microchipped - yet probably was sold on with a new passport and the microchip not checked. If anyone can just have a new one written up - whats the point?
But the law is the law and if this horse hasnt got one, I dont this you should buy it until the current owner gets it one.
natalia
Well-Known Member
Lol, passport system is a complete joke! We get lots of irish horses over and many come over without passports, this is because at the ports its simply not policed. As long as the driver has a batch of 9 passports on board for 9 horses on the lorry then they aren't checked against the horse so passport in cab could belong to anything. Horse then arrives with nothing. The ISH are normally alright as they are chipped and traceable (but its another £50 to get their passports sorted out) but the cobs and ponies need starting from fresh once they get here. As for the english side of things its even worse. We bought a horse recently without a passport, went through the motions with the vet of checking for a chip, getting its ID done etc. The horse was chipped so upon ringing up every microchip issuer in the UK under the sun, who all told us the same thing, yes the horse is chipped but no we cant tell you if its been reported lost/stolen and we also can't tell you the reg. owners details due to data protection. They wouldn't even tell the vet! So horse then got a new passport (which is technically illegal as it obv. already had one somewhere) with the microchip details just written in. I also was NOT allowed to change microchip details in to my name to correspond with the passport as didn't have a bit of paper work! JOKE!!! So basically there is nothing to stop you getting 100 passports for your horse as no one checks chip details anywhere, so horses can still be clocked on the BSJA circuit very easily and stolen horses will remain just that! Also take the example of the Gypsy cob soc. who's passports are now invalid as they no longer operate, you can't even change the horse in to your name now! Also illegal!
Sorry but its all a complete joke, and until we have just one issuing authority in this country who also deals with the microchips and a better run database (the UK need to take a look at horse sport ireland very closely as they are very organised!) then passports are just another stupid bit of paperwork that really don't mean anything.
Sorry but its all a complete joke, and until we have just one issuing authority in this country who also deals with the microchips and a better run database (the UK need to take a look at horse sport ireland very closely as they are very organised!) then passports are just another stupid bit of paperwork that really don't mean anything.
littleme
Well-Known Member
Totally agree half of them come over without, and so many are sold with the wrong passport anyway! Friend picked up a horse last year, with passport, then saw a similar pony advertised online under the same name, unfortunately the pony online matched the markings in the passport not the pony they had bought! Happens all too often!
Kaylum
Well-Known Member
Report them! Why do some people think they are above the law? When everybody else complies. Its quite interesting as I take it they can do what they do with dogs and overwrite the microchips.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
So how many of you would buy a car without a logbook/registration document??
If you are offered an unpassported horse DONT BUY IT - can I put it any more simply??
If you are offered an unpassported horse DONT BUY IT - can I put it any more simply??
martlin
Well-Known Member
The thing is, if we all don't adhere to the rules and regulations, what makes us better than the rogues?
Bottom line is, to sell, buy, transport or keep a horse without a passport is an offence - DON'T DO IT.
Bottom line is, to sell, buy, transport or keep a horse without a passport is an offence - DON'T DO IT.
natalia
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I don't re passport my irish horses till someone has them vetted and they pass, otherwise for the amount that come through it would hit my pocket very hard, esp. if they don't pass the vet and have to go back! Also by doing it this way, new owners details can go straight on to passport and the OTT re reg. charges can be sidestepped. Ideally we need to start a campaign for ONE passport issuing authority which works WITH the microchip issuers with horses being checked and chips scanned by trained officials at ports, sales and slaughterhouses. Until this is done passports aren't worth the paper they are written on.