Buying a new horse but it kicks!

[000000blue]

Hi everyone, I'm buying a new horse and looking for an allrounder for hacking and XC and to show jump at local shows & low level competitions. I've seen one that seems to fit the bill, an Irish horse 15.2 11 yrs old. She seems to have been well schooled and her only vice seems to be that she kicks when asked for her back feet & is only shod on the front. Dealer says she can be desensitised with a carrot stick. I understand this is quite a common problem? And will have 2 stage vetting anyway to see if anything more sinister. Would you consider her? She rides & jumps perfectly and I think we're a great match otherwise.

 

[Equi]

2 stage vetting is useless in this instance. 5 stage vetting, or a no go. As you say it may be more sinister.

 

[hihosilver]

I would be worried that there could be something not quite right. I would want a 5 stage vetting. There are so many horses out there I don't think I would be buying her.

 

[Roody2]

I would be wary of this considering she is 11. Ask yourself - if it was as easy to solve as the dealer suggests, why hasn't it been done already?
Is it just with shoeing she kicks or are there other situations? Presuming you will want to stud for xc and sj it could become a point of frustration in the future for you.

 

[silversprings]

She kicks. End of. Can you be sure she won't kick in company if someone or another animal comes up behind her feet.

 

[WelshD]

For a dealer to be declaring it rather than sorting it out and having more potential buyers and given the fact the mare is 11 I would imagine the problem is very ingrained

 

[benz]

It depends on how experienced you are and why she is kicking really. I had a pony that kicked when you asked for hind feet as she had been kept in a field with a stallion for two years and was used to having to defend herself. Within a few months of patient handling she was transformed and a friend of ours bought her for his daughter (yes he knew of the previous form for kicking), a couple of years on she still not kicking.

I had another mare that was bloody dangerous and only I would pick up her feet, she never kicked out at me after (I'm sorry to say) getting a hiding after she spun and kicked out at me narrowly missing my face. She would kick out at others. She had no physical reason for the kicking and was sound. I hated having this mare as I knew she could potentially kill someone and it was a constant stress.

I had a thoroughbred who hated to be shod behind and would throw himself about eventually restoring to kicking out. He was diagnosed with arthritis in hocks.

I wouldn't ever buy a horse that kicks again tbh

 

[dollyanna]

We had a pony at the riding school I grew up in, he was only shod in front because he kicked with his back feet (as well as leaping all over and running through you) he was 12hh. In the nearly 40yrs he lived there were very few people who could safely pick up his back feet, and even then it wasn't reliable.
His was due to abuse when younger, he had his feet burned by matches, but he was never trained out of it despite the efforts of many, many people and only kindness.

 

[paddi22]

if they haven't solved the issue in 11 years I'd be worried there was an underlying medical issue like arthritis, or further up in the hip It could be an issue if you need studs on the back for an xc course or jumping.

 

[nato]

Aside from any issues with the horse mentally or physically, I would echo another posters sentiment that you may be unable to stud for xc or sj on grass, or even showing, which would really limit what you can do. Also what will you do if she has an abscess or needs to be poulticed behind etc?

I think manners and feeling safe on the ground are so important. I could lie under my horse (obviously I wouldn't!) and feel safe and it's worth its weight in gold to me.

 

[EmmaC78]

It would put me off too I am afraid. The main thing I look for in horses is easy to handle/good manners and as someone else said there are so many horses out there that I don't think I would compromise on this.

 

[ELAINE.69]

be a no from me as well I took a punt last year with horse that was difficult to shoe behind she is now a field ornament there is normally a reason for these things I would walk away

 

[Umbongo]

For me it would depend on how badly she kicks and if you think you can overcome this issue with her. at 11 years old then probably not. Having looked after some horses in the past that did this it would be a no from me. Not only could there be an underlying issue for this (would get a 5 stage nota 2 stage vetting),but my main concern would be what if there was an injury in the area that you may need to treat in the future? Could you do so without being injured?? IMO there are lots of decent all rounders out there who don't kick!

 

[AdorableAlice]

If a horse is a top flight competition horse and professionally managed then yes buy it.

For a family friend, sharing facilities and having a normal life then no, walk away.

 

[ponydi]

If a horse is a top flight competition horse and professionally managed then yes buy it.

For a family friend, sharing facilities and having a normal life then no, walk away.

Says it all!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I expect that there is a physical problem causing this. I had a Clydesdale mare who was so difficult to trim that she had to be sedated by the vet, she had never been shod, afaIk. We did manage to wean her off IV sedation but she always needed sedation. Aged 11, she had to be pts when an internal tumour burst. We now think that she was in severe pain wahen asked to hold her back feet up for any length of time.

I am prepared to buy horses with problems but would never buy another which is difficult for the farrier.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Hi everyone, Dealer says she can be desensitised with a carrot stick.

If it is so easy to desensitise a horse from kicking then let the dealer do it. What he's saying is a load of pants, he's selling you a horse with quite an issue & is trying to absolve himself of any injury the horse may cause in the future. Sometimes this issue can be sorted but many times it cannot. The horse is 11 years old & would have had this problem all its life. If it could have been cured it would have been by now. If you know what to do & can sort itout yourself then take a chance. If you can't then walk away, there are plenty of other horses out there that will do what you want without the baggage.

Good Luck

 

[AdorableAlice]

A different view, why should we, as owners expect our farriers to handle difficult horses ? The farrier is working to provide for his family and make a living. Why would he want to earn a tenner to trim the hinds of a dangerous horse. There are plenty of polite horses for him to base his work load on.

 

[dieseldog]

Could have shivers

https://www.smartpakequine.com/content/shivers-horse

 

[Auslander]

Id be very cautious - particularly if she is otherwise mannerly. My horse is exceptionally polite and well behaved, but he is difficult to trim/shoe behind. He has hock arthritis, and it is uncomfortable for him to hold his hind legs up. My farrier has worked out a way to do him with minimal hock movement, and he has two bute the morning that he is shod. He's still not perfect, but million times better - so it is related to discomfort, rather than naughtiness

 

[Gloi]

has it been handled and ridden all its life or only recently broken and schooled. It could have been a brood mare they've not long broken who has never really had her back legs handled.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

We recently bought a 12 year old gelding from a friend who regularly kicks, and quite badly at that. So much so that he's previously injured one of our mares in the field when friend still owned him, and left a huge permanent scar on her (she also bled a lot, and it took months to heal). He's also kicked other horses that got too close out hunting.

Why did we buy him? Because, in mostly every other way he was perfect - cracking jumper, hunter, all rounder etc, and he wasn't the first horse we had owned that kicked, so we where prepared to work with him and try to discourage the kicking as much as possible. 4 months down the line and he's far better and does it less, although if he wants to, he'll kick like anything, out of pure 'naughtiness'. We certainly don't regret buying him, and, tough wood, he hasn't kicked since he's been here.

OP, if you really like the mare, try her a few more times, and then have a 5* vetting. She may just be uncooperative, or there may be a more sinister reason. If she passes and you think you can work with the kicking (providing it's not pain or illness related), then I'd consider buying her. Don't go for a 2*, it wouldn't highlight any issues.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We recently bought a 12 year old gelding from a friend who regularly kicks, and quite badly at that.

Why did we buy him? Because, in mostly every other way he was perfect - cracking jumper, hunter, all rounder etc, and he wasn't the first horse we had owned that kicked, so we where prepared to work with him and try to discourage the kicking as much as possible. 4 months down the line and he's far better and does it less, although if he wants to, he'll kick like anything, out of pure 'naughtiness'. We certainly don't regret buying him, and, tough wood, he hasn't kicked since he's been here.

I hope that you don't hunt this horse, or ride it out in company with anything other than known people who are fully briefed that you have a confirmed kicker.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

I hope that you don't hunt this horse, or ride it out in company with anything other than known people who are fully briefed that you have a confirmed kicker.

No, he's not hunting or going out in company for at least a year, until he can behave.

 

[Tiddlypom]

No, he's not hunting or going out in company for at least a year, until he can behave.

Ok, that's fair enough.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Ok, that's fair enough.

Oh goodness I wouldn't dream of letting him go out other than with our horses. He's mostly fine though, it's when they go up his bum, but still no excuse.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Is handling the back legs the only occasion it kicks? If it kicks in the field some livery yards won't take it.

 

[Llee94]

I know somebody who got a mare who kicked behind. Turned out the poor thing was completely crippled in its back, pelvis and had inflamed stifles. I managed to get them to have one chiro treatment on the horse which made a big difference but they haven't had another session since and surprise surprise it has gone back to kicking out again.

 

[Deltic Blue]

My mare can kick, not people, but she can kick other horses. Not all the time, and only when ridden, even then it's very sporadic. In the field she is generally fine. But being a mare, she obviously has her moments. She's only young, 5 at the moment, and has been broken in for less than a year, so I think she's just a bit insecure and not used to having horses behind her. But then a lot of mares I know aren't happy with horses coming up behind them.
I'm not worried about taking her out places. She'll have a red ribbon in and other riders have to respect her.

My mare is a lovely horse, great personality and she will be a brilliant horse in the future, so it was something I looked past when I bought her.
If this horse really is the one for you, and you think you can handle the fact it's a kicker, then I'd give it a go.

 

[PeterNatt]

There are horses out there that don't kick. Forget this kicker and continue looking......................