Buying a polo horse with slight conformation issue

[ycbm]

I accept I'm probably wrong about the sidebone, looking at other x rays of normal feet.
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[Solari]

This is a different vet to be fair - he's pretty well known! But thank you. I think he might be referring to her balance when she canters etc rather than in the x-ray?

 

[ycbm]

This is a different vet to be fair - he's pretty well known! But thank you. I think he might be referring to her balance when she canters etc rather than in the x-ray?

He can only be referring to how she's placing her feet on the floor, I guess. I understand his argument that altering the balance of the bones to the shoe might then make her land laterally, one side of the foot before the other, which would then be a big risk for soft tissue strain. But that balance is way out of kilter and honestly, and kindly meant, I think you'd be a bit nuts to pay much money for her.
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[sbloom]

I'm with ycbm. Yogi Sharpe, The Equine Documentalist, shoes a lot of polo ponies, he would be worth contacting to see if he can help. He's based in Sussex if you're local, but he may offer help remotely.

 

[sbloom]

Also we should be clear, this is almost certainly not conformation. I see conformation as primarily that which is borne of genetics. Most lower limb issues, though not all, are a result of poor care, just as most topline oddities are a result of poor posture and compensatory movement patterns, which, with feet like this, the mare will almost certainly have.

 

[Solari]

The vet and farrier saw the horse again today, redid the shoe on that foot and said she's landing much better now.

They're both saying that she does have a conformation (or whatever you want to call it xD) issue, but that it's not particularly bad and suggested that it shouldn't affect her ability to play until she's older.

They referred to her being "toe out" (either that or toe-in... I cant remember)

 

[sbloom]

It's so unlikely to be conformation, hence she's landing better with one improved shoeing. Read further about hoof balance, follow any leads anyone's posted here, it will stand you in good stead whether you buy this horse or another

 

[Solari]

It's so unlikely to be conformation, hence she's landing better with one improved shoeing. Read further about hoof balance, follow any leads anyone's posted here, it will stand you in good stead whether you buy this horse or another

Wait so, what do you think it is? And if it's not conformation, is it something to be really worried about?

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'm with ycbm. Yogi Sharpe, The Equine Documentalist, shoes a lot of polo ponies, he would be worth contacting to see if he can help. He's based in Sussex if you're local, but he may offer help remotely.

Yogi was my farrier, and I can thoroughly recommend him

 

[HelenBack]

Just to say that my horse is toe out and has a tendency to land laterally. I didn't have x-rays done when I bought him but he did pass a vetting with the toe out confirmation noted. He went lame when he was 12 and when I got x-rays done they looked quite similar to yours in terms of wonkiness. We went barefoot then and things have improved a lot but he's still a bit of wonkey donkey and I don't think he will ever not be.

I'm pretty realistic about the fact that very few horses are 100% sound and I wouldn't be averse to taking on one with known issues that I felt I could manage but just because I've experienced this issue first hand and the subsequent falling apart of my horse, I'd probably be a bit wary of buying that particular problem again.

 

[sbloom]

Toe in and toe out can often be related to the thoracic sling, working on the posture to lift this can help the horse's legs align much better and contribute to long term soundness.

 

[HelenBack]

Toe in an toe out can often be related to the thoracic sling, working on the posture to lift this can help the horse's legs align much better and contribute to long term soundness.

My horse is older now and basically b*ggered but I think if I had my time again with him I would do things very differently. I suppose we would all say that though wouldn't we?

 

[sbloom]

My horse is older now and basically b*ggered but I think if I had my time again with him I would do things very differently. I suppose we would all say that though wouldn't we?

Oh, every time. We need three lifetimes to really learn horses I swear!

 

[Solari]

Just to say that my horse is toe out and has a tendency to land laterally. I didn't have x-rays done when I bought him but he did pass a vetting with the toe out confirmation noted. He went lame when he was 12 and when I got x-rays done they looked quite similar to yours in terms of wonkiness. We went barefoot then and things have improved a lot but he's still a bit of wonkey donkey and I don't think he will ever not be.

I'm pretty realistic about the fact that very few horses are 100% sound and I wouldn't be averse to taking on one with known issues that I felt I could manage but just because I've experienced this issue first hand and the subsequent falling apart of my horse, I'd probably be a bit wary of buying that particular problem again.

Thank you. At what age did you buy your horse? and for what discipline/sport was this? how often were they working?

 

[Goldenstar]

Toe out toe in is more often than not a posture issue and can be driven by pain from other areas .
Only you can answer the question is she worth the risk and can you afford the potential costs of keeping her going .
I would want regular foot xrays from her for the first year and twice a year after that you also need to learn how to improve a horses posture and strength.

 

[HelenBack]

Thank you. At what age did you buy your horse? and for what discipline/sport was this? how often were they working?

He was five when I got him and I used him for a bit of everything - hacking, fun rides, camps, schooling and competing mostly eventing up to 90 and training at 100. I usually rode him about five times a week and tried to do a mix of stuff with him and not just go in the school all the time. I would say he earned his keep but it probably wasn't that strenuous in the grand scheme of things.

To be fair to him he never had a day's lameness until he was 12 but then the wheels came off completely as he was also found to have arthritis behind. I suspect his dodgy confirmation didn't help and although I don't know where it started I think all the different lamenesses probably fuelled each other.

I also wonder if we'd just stuck to hacking might he have lasted a bit longer before he broke. Obviously I'll never know the answer to that though.

 

[ycbm]

I keep questioning in my head why you came onto the forum after a 6 year break to ask about this horse when you seem to have polo experts around you.

Is it possible that you have subconsciously picked up subliminal clues that the owner has doubts about this mare and that's why she's for sale, before she breaks?

One thing we always say on this forum is "listen to your gut".
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[Solari]

Thanks guys - been on holiday for a week.

Yes, my gut is telling me to take caution. I'm not sure it's telling me it's not the right horse though!

The farrier came last week, re-shoed and then we took x-rays again.

Note several vets have told me that there's no worry about sidebone here. Just a matter of conformation, toe-out etc.

Do they look better to you guys?

Image: https://ibb.co/YDMQXZr

 

[ycbm]

I think you can clearly see what the rebalancing has done for evening up the joint spaces between the bones. That looks good to me but I'm not a vet or a farrier.

I still think she's a huge risk, the pedal bone on the left, if you compare it to the right, is completely asymmetric. You should be able to draw a line down the centre of the foot and see the same amount of bone on each side. She's modelled this foot, quite likely in response to the forces pressing on it from above, to have much more bone on the right side of the centre line of the pedal bone than the left. It's become more clear now the balance is better. The question is what is out of kilter elsewhere that caused her to do this, and whether it indicates a weakness or not.

Thanks for updating, I'm on tenterhooks to know if you buy!
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[stangs]

That left foot certainly looks like it's better balanced, but, as ycbm says, the left pedal bone is still problematic it. I also noticed that the joint space by the long pastern is pretty straight on the left, but wonky on the right. In the previous x-rays you posted, that joint has been cropped out, so I can't compare it, but I'd be concerned if it was straight before and has gotten wonkier as the left rebalances.

Personally, I wouldn't buy this horse for polo. But I also haven't watched her move or see what she's like behaviourally, so take my thoughts with a big pinch of salt. If you're leaning towards buying, I'd want a physio's opinion about her (if you haven't got one already) of how she might be/have been compensating for the foot, just so you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[MystieMoo]

Tbh, I would probably pass - which you may well have done by now. Especially in light of what you're wanting to do with the horse and it only being 6 years old.

Farriers can work wonders. But they can only do so much. Our ID x Cob mare was pigeon-toed when she came to us 3 years ago. The farrier has much improved on this, but he can only do what he has done so far - he will have a negative effect on her if he 'corrects' her further.

We had an ISH whose left foot turned out slightly. On the vetting, it was noted, but not as anything of great significance unless we wanted him for top level showing. We didn't. He currently has a successful career with our friend in dressage - we sold him because at that time he was a little too much for my then younger daughter. The same farrier was able to correct him to the point of it being hardly noticeable (it wasn't very noticeable to start with), but again could not correct him further without a negative effect.

Before either of these two horses, we had a mare who was mis-sold to us. ISH with 3/4 TB. Awful feet that needed specialist work all the time. However, by the time we got her at 14, this constant need for her feet to be corrected all her life had caught up with her. Long story short, we retired her 18 months later, a year of that time spent trying to 'get her right'. Her x-rays didn't look that bad at all, so I'd be very concerned with the x-rays you have posted.

I hope you have decided on what you are going to do by now and best of luck.

 

[Melody Grey]

Out of curiosity, is this horse straight enough and symmetrical through the knees viewed from the front? Logic would suggest there’s some wonkiness above those feet. Whether that’s significant to remain sound/ do the job is another issue.

 

[Solari]

Out of curiosity, is this horse straight enough and symmetrical through the knees viewed from the front? Logic would suggest there’s some wonkiness above those feet. Whether that’s significant to remain sound/ do the job is another issue.

Straight enough I would say yes

 

[Solari]

So guys... I had *another* vet go and see her, and I gave the vet all the information, x-rays and concerns that have been accumulated. And asked for them to specifically assess this front leg conformation / toe-out issue... and they said it should be fine so long as she's shod correctly!

I've consulted with several vets, professionals and friends (such as you guys) but crucially the vets have ruled in favour of the horse being fine.

So... I'm buying her!

 

[ycbm]

Well no one can accuse you of failing to listen or not doing your due diligence, Solari. I hope she fulfils all your dreams.
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[brighteyes]

Asking whether this mare would be an ideal purchase to continue playing polo just makes me want to cry for her.
At six the X-rays are not encouraging and to consider any kind of high strain workload seems like a fast route to her end.

ETA please prove me wrong!

 

[Cortez]

So guys... I had *another* vet go and see her, and I gave the vet all the information, x-rays and concerns that have been accumulated. And asked for them to specifically assess this front leg conformation / toe-out issue... and they said it should be fine so long as she's shod correctly!

I've consulted with several vets, professionals and friends (such as you guys) but crucially the vets have ruled in favour of the horse being fine.

So... I'm buying her!

Yeah, I think if I really liked her I'd probably take a punt on her too (price dependent), but then I'm pretty brave

 

[Red-1]

So guys... I had *another* vet go and see her, and I gave the vet all the information, x-rays and concerns that have been accumulated. And asked for them to specifically assess this front leg conformation / toe-out issue... and they said it should be fine so long as she's shod correctly!

I've consulted with several vets, professionals and friends (such as you guys) but crucially the vets have ruled in favour of the horse being fine.

So... I'm buying her!

Good luck, and we need photos and updates!

 

[Solari]

Haha thanks guys. I will provide some updates.

playing her in a tournament this weekend ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Haha thanks guys. I will provide some updates.

playing her in a tournament this weekend ?

Good luck ?