Buying from dealers

Snowfilly said:
I'll just say, I'd probably refuse to tack up - I like to stand back and watch ears / tail swishing / girthiness etc and it's easier to do that when you're not tacking up yourself.

But I like to have seen them lead up in hand at walk and trot first, then trot them up myself and looked at feet and teeth, so hopefully I can prove I'm not a complete idiot before we get that far!

Wow at the pulling up from canter woman though, that's awful.
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Well, when somebody asks you what a drop noseband is, and how do you fit it, you could see why I like to see them tack up and wouldn't let the trial go any further. I also had a crew turn up to buy a novice driving pony. They spent 10 minutes trying to work out how the breast collar fitted. I told them there was no way they were driving that pony and they were furious, and insisted they were experts. There are a lot of "experts"out there.
 
Ceifer said:
You’re right,it would be better than nothing but not ideal. I see more yards relying on horse walkers too which is sad. I honestly think if it does fully go that way in winters I wouldn’t have another horse after my current one.
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Depends how big and how horse-friendly the turnout is, I suppose. I'd be happy with surfaced turnout if it was a decent size, horses could share and be out all day / 24/7, with scattered forage. Especially if it encompassed a track type system around summer turnout / hay fields. It would reduce acreage compared to grass turnout (esp on clay) but obviously not as much as confining to boxes 24/7. I think that's what I'd attempt if I had mine at home. I don't consider walkers an advantage in any way.
 
Well I bought my new chap from a dealer who told me he was a saint, would step up for me and do showing dressage and anything I fancIED but would teach my beginner son. Did I believe her? Hell no. Is the pony the saint she described? Well actually he blinking well is! I didn’t think unicorns existed. I was wrong
 
Just a Festive Troll in the Dungeon said:
Depends how big and how horse-friendly the turnout is, I suppose. I'd be happy with surfaced turnout if it was a decent size, horses could share and be out all day / 24/7, with scattered forage. Especially if it encompassed a track type system around summer turnout / hay fields. It would reduce acreage compared to grass turnout (esp on clay) but obviously not as much as confining to boxes 24/7. I think that's what I'd attempt if I had mine at home. I don't consider walkers an advantage in any way.
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I’m a cynic and think it would be v unlikely that many yards would put in a big surfaced turnout. I think most will put in a scrappy area and rota it.
 
Tbh with leaving the eu and the likely loss of subsidies food prices are likely to rocket... thus a lot of the land used for horses at present could well be converted back to food production ... so equestrianism once again becomes the reserve of the landed peoples
 
Ceifer said:
I’m a cynic and think it would be v unlikely that many yards would put in a big surfaced turnout. I think most will put in a scrappy area and rota it.
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I believe that eventually yards will follow demand if people are willing to pay to make it worthwhile. Track systems and grass livery / retirement places are appearing to meet current demands, so I think winter turnout will follow the same rules. Obviously the cheaper and more basic yards are likely to do as they've always done and get by with as little as possible, but I'd be amazed if new systems don't emerge.
 
scats said:
In the 90s, we had a very good dealer locally who sourced mainly youngsters. A lot came from Ireland. They were green, but always sane and sound. Infact, there are 3 owned by friends who are still going strong, in their late 20s and 2 of the 3 still in work. That’s testament really to the quality of the animals that this dealer had. They were never ridiculously priced either. Because of the good name this dealer had, and her ability to source decent, honest animals, she could sell them at very good prices because she had so many coming in and out and didn’t need to rely on the money from selling one to last her until the next one. She supplied many local riding schools with good horses, many competition ponies, RDA horses, you name it. But, back then, people did seem to be willing to spend the time to get to know the horse and deal with any little hiccups and work through them.

I do think the problem now is that there are a lot of bin end dealers who are trying to sell slightly older horses (or at least, not youngsters) and those horses have usually ended up with that dealer because there is a problem with them, whether that be soundness or otherwise.
There seem to be less dealers around getting decent youngsters in and selling them on at affordable prices.
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Who was that scats?
 
Ranyhyn said:
I do think people aren't honest about their ability. There are horses out there for everyone, if you are honest enough to accept what kind of rider you are!
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To be fair, a lot of people have no idea what their ability is. If you have been cantering, jumping and hacking on a riding school horse it is easy to believe you can ride. Similarly, if you have a long standing horse-partner that you lose, it is easy to be unknowing as to how much the horse had been doing the work for you.

Also, if someone has not ridden for a while, it is easy to underestimate how much a lack of fitness and match practice will affect you.

I don't think most people deliberately go out to buy a horse that will scare the pants off them. Hence needing sellers who can assess whether the horse they are selling is a fit or not. I think this is more important now as I believe the seller of the racehorse which threw the young rider was heavily criticised in court. It is a minefield.
 
Red-Nose said:
To be fair, a lot of people have no idea what their ability is. If you have been cantering, jumping and hacking on a riding school horse it is easy to believe you can ride. Similarly, if you have a long standing horse-partner that you lose, it is easy to be unknowing as to how much the horse had been doing the work for you.

Also, if someone has not ridden for a while, it is easy to underestimate how much a lack of fitness and match practice will affect you.

I don't think most people deliberately go out to buy a horse that will scare the pants off them. Hence needing sellers who can assess whether the horse they are selling is a fit or not. I think this is more important now as I believe the seller of the racehorse which threw the young rider was heavily criticised in court. It is a minefield.
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this.
I consider myself to be an experienced rider but I got bolted with when I went to view a horse. Horse was advertised as schoolmaster, confidence giver for someone wanting to either start eventing or go up the levels the owner said he’d taught her everything she knew, from being unconfident jumping 80cm up to 1.15m. All good on the flat, jumping around a small course. Was told not to put my leg on (warning bells should have sounded). But I thought I was losing impulsion so applied a small leg aid. Took the next fence at speed, landed in gallop and nearly exited out the short side of the arena over the boundary fence.
My only consolation was the horse was withdrawn from the market the next day and when it did eventually reappear the advert didn’t quite sell it as the bombproof schoolmaster first advertised.
I don’t think the owner deliberately went out to deceive me. She seemed genuinely shocked but everybody’s opinion on what a horse is like is different
 
Red-Nose said:
To be fair, a lot of people have no idea what their ability is. If you have been cantering, jumping and hacking on a riding school horse it is easy to believe you can ride. Similarly, if you have a long standing horse-partner that you lose, it is easy to be unknowing as to how much the horse had been doing the work for you.

Also, if someone has not ridden for a while, it is easy to underestimate how much a lack of fitness and match practice will affect you.

I don't think most people deliberately go out to buy a horse that will scare the pants off them. Hence needing sellers who can assess whether the horse they are selling is a fit or not. I think this is more important now as I believe the seller of the racehorse which threw the young rider was heavily criticised in court. It is a minefield.
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This is absolutely true - and people are often lured by flashiness and potential, because that's what they want, but isn't what they need. Which is fine if they've got the budget for a flashy, potential-filled saint, but many don't, and end up being overhorsed entirely. Anyone who comes to me for advice about buying horses* gets told to "buy a horse you think you can cope with on the worst day you can imagine, not only the best". So not just to think about winning rosettes in the summer sunshine, but also the realities of a fresh, bouncy horse mid-winter when it's cold and windy and miserable and you're trying to get around the lanes without dying. If you don't think you'll be able to handle it then, and can't afford to pay someone else to do those bits, don't buy it. Look for something a little more level headed.

I don't blame people for being swayed by flash, but I do wish they'd be a little more realistic sometimes!


(*people do... I know, I'm also amazed that anyone trusts my judgement, because I certainly don't!)
 
Just a Festive Troll in the Dungeon said:
This is absolutely true - and people are often lured by flashiness and potential, because that's what they want, but isn't what they need. Which is fine if they've got the budget for a flashy, potential-filled saint, but many don't, and end up being overhorsed entirely. Anyone who comes to me for advice about buying horses* gets told to "buy a horse you think you can cope with on the worst day you can imagine, not only the best". So not just to think about winning rosettes in the summer sunshine, but also the realities of a fresh, bouncy horse mid-winter when it's cold and windy and miserable and you're trying to get around the lanes without dying. If you don't think you'll be able to handle it then, and can't afford to pay someone else to do those bits, don't buy it. Look for something a little more level headed.

I don't blame people for being swayed by flash, but I do wish they'd be a little more realistic sometimes!


(*people do... I know, I'm also amazed that anyone trusts my judgement, because I certainly don't!)
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I wish there was a super like button!

very very true.

but why is there not a thriving market in this type of horse? A nice horse that’s not a world beater but not a ‘bin end horse’ either
You get horses that have an affiliated record at even a low level, sometimes with awful results and they’re 8-10k
 
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I bought my horse from a dealer. A big name in Spain that sells many Iberian horses. I was looking for something green and just basic ridden. Basically, I just wanted the horse to be able to accept a rider and have fairly decent character. I bought sight unseen this time and he's the best horse I've ever had. However, my expectations were a bit low due to shopping for a young inexperienced horse, and I had a trainer on hand to help as needed. I was also willing to part ways if it didn't work out (would just sell through trainer).

I do have a keen eye, so this helps. Meanwhile, another acquaintance has bought twice from dealers and both have been poor matches. Her riding is poor and she has no desire to improve, and these horses were being ridden by pros (people seem to forget this). Never mind the fact that the horse went from being steadily ridden in a training/sales program to being ridden whenever the mood strikes/not often. People also overlook that. Usually when you buy a horse from a dealer they are ridden regularly and in training to keep or increase their value. When you bring said horse home and only ride 2-3 days a week casually, when the horse is used to good solid work 5 to 6 days a week, the horse very well may behave differently. It's not rocket science to figure out why.

I don't mind buying from a dealer. I do get my own vet check done by a vet selected myself. I do not pay for or accept x-rays that the dealer already has. I also feel as though the Iberian dealer I bought from does a good job with his sales videos. If the horse hacks, it is shown on a short hack. If the horse is at FEI level, the horse is shown at FEI level. Nothing worse than an "upper level dressage horse" with a 1 photo add of him tied to a tree in an unflattering stance at dusk.

Now, when it comes to the turnout situation, don't even get me started on the situation here in Germany. Utterly awful. Horses live in boxes for months on end. This is "normal" for many liveries here. The weather is NO SURPRISE here as it is nearly the same every year - WET. But yet you'll be hard pressed to find a stable with appropriate all weather turnout - even if you're willing to pay more!
 
I think it’s a minefield. I’m a decent middle aged rider (40 odd BD medium points / low level BD judge / take horses galloping / do low level endurance / confident hacking etc.) had a range of horses mostly DIY last 20 years.

i bought a few years ago, sensible WB, 11, good BD record, same home 5 years, known breeding, tried 4 times, took experienced friend, trainer, hacked, full past vet history, 5 stage vetting on freezing day after 16 hours stabled. Flew vetting and didn’t xray on vet partners advice. Still friends with ex owner.

Horse was bought with a similar lifestyle and yard environment in mind. Bought to be a safe fun investment, the sensible purchase.

He’s been a nightmare of ulcers, feet, back, spine, saddle and physical and behavioural issues (from pain mostly I think). I’m not inexperienced and I’d say I’ve had a good support team. It’s still been testing and a long journey.

I dont think he was missold. I don’t think I did anything wrong. I think just very unlucky with a range of things which snowballed. Hopefully we are on the up now.

Point of my post is sometimes you are just unlucky with ALL the care and due diligence.
 
Red-Nose said:
if you have a long standing horse-partner that you lose, it is easy to be unknowing as to how much the horse had been doing the work for you.
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A frind of mine was selling a filly foal and had a woman come to see her who had previously had a mare for about 20yrs that looked exactly like the foal. She decided to buy her. My friend asked her if she was sure that she could handle a baby but the woman was totally convinced she could. Strangely, I think less than a year later, that filly was back up for sale, reason given loss of grazing. Might have been true I guess.

I know that despite having bred lots of foals, shown them, brought them on and in some cases broken them in and ridden them, that now I haven't got what it takes to handle a youngster so I will not attempt it.
 
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