buying from the breeder....

I think a lot of these things are generally done by responsible breeders anyway, during a horses normal upbringing- leading, feet done, being in yards, in stables, being led back to fields, just generally getting handy. I dont really think 'over handling' is the cause of many problems, but 'wrong, inappropriate handling' or ''petting and cuddling' is.
I agree that horses sold from responsible breeders are an excellent choice, but they should go to their new homes to be broken at 4 maximum.
I see a lot of breeders (I am in Ireland, maybe its more common here) who have acres of land, a few mares, use 'the colt up the road' or maybe their own stallion, breed every year and then build up an amount of unhandled youngstock, which arent really saleable - unbroken, 6,7 year olds with untouched feet etc. Then they suddenly decide to have a clear out and a bunch of the older ones are driven into a lorry and taken to the local sale. This to me is irresponsible breeding.
Another example of irresponsible breeding is the herds, usually b/w types, you see out along the river banks and in fields all over UK and Ireland- colts covering their mums, siblings running together.
 
stormox said:
I agree that horses sold from responsible breeders are an excellent choice, but they should go to their new homes to be broken at 4 maximum.
I see a lot of breeders (I am in Ireland, maybe its more common here) who have acres of land, a few mares, use 'the colt up the road' or maybe their own stallion, breed every year and then build up an amount of unhandled youngstock, which arent really saleable - unbroken, 6,7 year olds with untouched feet etc. Then they suddenly decide to have a clear out and a bunch of the older ones are driven into a lorry and taken to the local sale. This to me is irresponsible breeding.
Another example of irresponsible breeding is the herds, usually b/w types, you see out along the river banks and in fields all over UK and Ireland- colts covering their mums, siblings running together.
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That explains a lot of your thoughts, being in Ireland where the horse is very much a business, far more than your average breeder here except for the gypsy pony brigade of course but they don't listen to anything or accept rules like anyone else; they are untouchable so you'll never see any change to their system and they will continue to churn out coloureds til the cows come home even if they only sell for £50.

I agree with most of the rest but not the 4 year old maximum. What happens if the right person does not come along for that horse? Is the breeder supposed to sell it to any Tom, Dick or harry that doesn't have the first atom of experience or common sense? Surely better to keep it and wait/seek the right buyer? Thankfully, over here, most decent breeders think a bit more of their horses than just pound signs and do their utmost to find decent owners to take them on; after all, every horse that goes out of their yard is part of their shop window; they'd be foolish not to try to get it right.
 
Maesfen said:
I agree with most of the rest but not the 4 year old maximum. What happens if the right person does not come along for that horse? Is the breeder supposed to sell it to any Tom, Dick or harry that doesn't have the first atom of experience or common sense? Surely better to keep it and wait/seek the right buyer? Thankfully, over here, most decent breeders think a bit more of their horses than just pound signs and do their utmost to find decent owners to take them on; after all, every horse that goes out of their yard is part of their shop window; they'd be foolish not to try to get it right.
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No, I dont mean if the horse gets to 4 years you should sell to anybody, but if the breeder still has it at 4 years they should start doing a bit with it themselves, not leave it till its 5 or 6 like a bunch of youngstock I went to see (ID and IDx ) in Lincolnshire a few years back, I bought a 5 year old, which was about as late as Id leave a horse before breaking, but he had unbroken 6 and 7 year olds there too.
 
I bought both of my arabs from their breeders (and CM came from her breeder too at eight years of age, but that was via a bloodstock agent and she was greeeeen as grass, bless her cotton socks) and I would happily buy youngstock (or possibly an older horse) that have pretty much done s*d all from a breeder again. :) So yes, to me it is an advantage.
 
Maesfen said:
That explains a lot of your thoughts, being in Ireland where the horse is very much a business, far more than your average breeder here except for the gypsy pony brigade of course but they don't listen to anything or accept rules like anyone else; they are untouchable so you'll never see any change to their system and they will continue to churn out coloureds til the cows come home even if they only sell for £50.

I agree with most of the rest but not the 4 year old maximum. What happens if the right person does not come along for that horse? Is the breeder supposed to sell it to any Tom, Dick or harry that doesn't have the first atom of experience or common sense? Surely better to keep it and wait/seek the right buyer? Thankfully, over here, most decent breeders think a bit more of their horses than just pound signs and do their utmost to find decent owners to take them on; after all, every horse that goes out of their yard is part of their shop window; they'd be foolish not to try to get it right.
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Indeed I would give a youngster to the right person rather than sell to somebody I was not sure of.
 
ihatework said:
Do you not hire in a skate-boarding ostrich to desensitise your foals then?! Tut tut, shame on you :D
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LOL; ostriches are local and horses don't worry about them or the Red Arrows, hot air balloons, hounds, alpacas, fireworks, farm vehicles and have fun watching the grandchildren riding their toys around the yard but they do worry if I forget to feed them (joking!) they have their priorities right.
 
Maesfen said:
LOL; ostriches are local and horses don't worry about them or the Red Arrows, hot air balloons, hounds, alpacas, fireworks, farm vehicles and have fun watching the grandchildren riding their toys around the yard but they do worry if I forget to feed them (joking!) they have their priorities right.
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Good grief! Even be 10mins late with the feed and these youngsters are mentally scared for life!
 
SPIDER........................................

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If you want a young horse that is bombproof best buy a wooden one. There are some bizarre comments on this thread.
 
I'm actually fine with my horses not being comfortable around ostriches. It's on our list of things that are perfectly reasonable to be freaked out by. Right up there with lions and wildebeest.
 
Most of mine came from breeders I am happy with our choices. Six were un-backed though not unhanded aged 3 and 4 years of age. Some had more experience than others some were naturally more brave.

I am now a breeder and all our youngsters are handled and gradually introduced to new things. We have tractors and other machine on the farm. However, I don't have a handy dual carriage-way on which to do walks, nor do I intend to take our 3 year old half ton and 16.2hh Cleveland Bay for a walk in hand on the narrow road outside our house with a deep ditch each side, in order to play chicken with some of the huge tractors, trailers and combine harvesters which pass by.

She will go out on the leading rein with an older horse. Next year she will start competing.
 
:D:D:D

Tell me, I'm worried about the trajectory of any "jettison", looks like the driver is in real danger.
 
Interesting thread. I am not a breeder or producer but have been on enough yards when this is done and had just backed horses myself to bring on. Anything treated as a pet and over handled have ALL been a complete nightmare to back. Unbelievably so. As I get older I do pay much more attention to breeding. I read comments saying it isn't relevant but I disagree. I have seen so many siblings in different circumstances demonstrate the same quirks. As a positive example, I have never met a nasty horse out of Grange Bouncer. They all seem to have the wonderful "can do" and laid back attitude.
 
Luci07 said:
Interesting thread. I am not a breeder or producer but have been on enough yards when this is done and had just backed horses myself to bring on. Anything treated as a pet and over handled have ALL been a complete nightmare to back. Unbelievably so. As I get older I do pay much more attention to breeding. I read comments saying it isn't relevant but I disagree. I have seen so many siblings in different circumstances demonstrate the same quirks. As a positive example, I have never met a nasty horse out of Grange Bouncer. They all seem to have the wonderful "can do" and laid back attitude.
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This is so true!

As a recent one time foal breeder/owner I'm having to consciously back off handling mine too much now.
He was quite wary/skittish around the 1-2 month mark so at the 3/4 month stage he was handled religiously, exposed to as much as possible until I was sure he was confident around humans and easy to do. Towards the end of that period he started getting a bit too 'in your face' so got a few tellings off, and I stopped handling him. He was left in his herd with just the briefest of visual checks and a quick pat. He will now stay handled like this until ready to break! Handled just for vet & farrier. The dogs will continue to run loose through the fields. The tractors will continue to do their thing. He has sheep & pigs living on site. That's it!
I'd love to faff around him more but I won't, because I want a future horse whose brain is in the right place to work
 
I'd also rather have an unhandled youngster than a rude homebred any day! Friends of ours bred, and their designated foal fields are right by the main(ish) road to help them get used to the sights... it worked for black beauty, and seems to work for them!
 
You need to breed large numbers of horses to get the exceptional ones but if you use licensed stallions from graded mares where you can see the temprement of the stallions from their performance test results then you will end up with good riding horses. We have head collars on foals from day one and they are always handled every day when fed. If the breeder has a nice quite way with horses and they are firmly treated not abused they will grow up to trust you. If you buy from the breeder you know the ownership details of the horse and can see the conditions it has been kept under and make your own judgement if it is a second or third owner you cannot make any judgement as to how it might have been treated. Fools breed horses for wise men to ride is still true.
 
I agree with the above but I have had success in buying other people 'mistakes'. They buy a foal, treat like a pet or find out that where they want to keep it does not wants colts, or they buy it to do one job and someone tells them its no good. If you know the breeding, and its the right price most of the time its just a matter of turning them out to learn some manners and confident handling, and assessing it for the right market. Its a lot easier and cheaper than breeding them, I know to my cost.
 
As usual. picking up late on this...must say I SERIOUSLY like the idea of an ostrich around the place, very cute. But skateboards? Why? Do you see many horses hanging out around skateparks? I merely ask.

And the dual carriage-way bit seems a counsel of perfection. Seriously lethal if you get it wrong. Now, being in a field NEXT to a dual carriageway, that might be different....
 
Well, I think it depends. I bought a just-backed, v quiet 4 yo (I know!) from the breeder that hadn't so much as seen a rug and he adapted very very quickly and was totally straight-forward and as described. I don't mind putting a bit of work in :)
 
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