Buying / Selling Horses in the Digital Age

[Where’s My Cow]

It feels as though increasing numbers of people are being affected by unscrupulous horse sellers. We know there have always been dodgy dealers, but the number of cases feels as though they are on the rise. And I’m wondering why, and whether technology is playing a role.

I found a book from 1939 called Ponies for Children by M Williamson the other day. It is a guide for parents who aren’t experienced horse owners, on how they should select a pony for their child. There aren’t any warnings in there about dodgy sellers. Instead the emphasis is on not spending too much, and finding the correct type of pony. Nowadays if you search online for guidance around buying horses and ponies (because we’re more likely to go online than read a book), the BHS is one of the first sites that appear and it does contain warnings about dodgy sellers. So…

Is it easier for people to falsely advertise now? I’m assuming that, prior to the advent of the internet, most horses and ponies were sold fairly locally. You’d buy through word of mouth, where the seller was known. Or at a local fair or market where the seller would return frequently and likely wouldn’t want to be given a poor reputation from the community.

Now people are willing to travel to view, often buying from a stranger. You don’t know them and therefore don’t know if their reputation is one for honesty. Dealers do sometimes have reviews and testimonials, to counter that, but if you don’t know the person who left the review, can you really trust it to be genuine?

There are scammers who steal identities or photos to pretend they have horses for sale, with the aim of enticing potential buyers to send them a holding fee or deposit. There are sellers who advertise a horse that they do actually have, but then still take multiple deposits then ghost the potential buyers.

Is there less of a penalty for misrepresenting a horse in a sale now than there used to be? Taking legal action can be prohibitively costly and there is no guarantee that at the end of a lengthy process you will even receive compensation. Even if someone is found guilty of misrepresenting a horse, does that deter them? People local to them may find out but it won’t stop them selling to a wide audience that they can reach online. In previous years I would imagine the hit to your local reputation was more of an issue than a legal battle, but I don’t know.

Or are the same number of misrepresented horses being sold, but we’re just hearing about it more. Sharing experiences on forums and social media. With dodgy dealer pages etc.

Are people more sensitive to potential mis-sales now and therefore it’s more common to hear about? I have read the stories of people, often less experienced, who have bought a horse then blamed the seller when it did something they didn’t like. In the past would they have been less upset if a purchase acted out, because they wouldn’t have had a large scale public forum on which to air their thoughts, or because they would have been less concerned in general? I’m not talking about horses who have done something dangerous here. More along the lines of a horse who may have spooked or been unsettled when they moved to a new home.

Are people more likely to get upset about an mis-sold horse than they would have in the past? Cost of living is very high right now, the purchase prices of horses have gone up, and vet fees are at an all time high. Perhaps in the past it wouldn’t have been such an issue to find that a horse had been mis-sold because the outlay and continued care wouldn’t have been so high. I could be wrong, I was born in the 90s so this is definitely just a musing!

And how can we try and make the market fair moving forwards? Fair for both buyers and sellers who want to engage in honest transactions.

Would a public register, endorsed and maintained by an equine body, of people who have been convicted of mis-selling horses be beneficial? Only those who have been convicted (not accused) would appear, so potential buyers can check names before commencing with a purchase. It wouldn’t fix all the issues, but it may deter some people.

Are there laws that should be amended or updated to offer better protections?

Can anyone think of any other potential solutions that may be worth discussing?

I should say that I’m currently engaged in the process of taking a private seller to court, so it is a topic that is on my mind!

 

[LEC]

I actually think buyers are the problem. I know it sounds like victim blaming but ultimately this is not a new problem and never has been. Even in black beauty there were unscrupulous dealers and the horse ends up as the victim in it all.
We have a serious issue in horses now that horses are becoming more and more expensive so people are always looking for a cheap horse. Combine that with it being cheaper to learn to ride on your own horse that adults are not educating themselves fully before buying a horse. One horse suitable for me, is a law suit for another rider.

Then you have issues around people wanting cheap and to get cheap you either buy a problem, or buy young both of which have issues for different people. I see a lot of horses who thrive under one management programme to then literally fall apart in 6 weeks. I went to see one of my old competition horses yesterday who I sold for £1 to a friend and I couldn't believe how fat she was and how bad her feet were. Also lacking topline. We have now sorted some easy solutions for going forward.

The scammers thing is people being stupid. If the price is too good to be true.... Why would you buy unseen if not very experienced? I have never done it. Couldn't bring myself to. If they are a long way away, I pay someone to go and look at the horse and get me videos and then make a choice. I have friends who have bought unseen but always through very reputable breeders and they do a bit of due diligence.

This is the other thing, the internet is a great tool and people don't do enough googling. They don't do enough detective work before buying. Ask for a photo of previous owners passport page, ring them. If people are saying no they won't do this it's a red flag. Ask lots of questions from the seller. If they can't answer some of them... why? Look up the sellers competition record.

Ultimately buying a horse is always a risk and the rule should always be never spend what you cannot afford to lose. Vettings are only if the horse is suitable on the day but I am always surprised people don't ask for gait analysis on an expensive horse along with x rays.

I never go without someone who knows about cars to buy a car so baffles me that people do it all the time with horses.

 

[Trouper]

And why are so many horses "broken" today which, in my opinion, is at the root cause of all the issues owners are trying to deal with. Realise that this angle is slightly off the OP's question but sometimes you have to go and look further up the river to find why people are falling in rather than just pulling them out.

 

[HJJ]

Completely agree with LEC. Added to this, the number of people that don't allow a new horse time to settle - new yard, new people, new companions. It's complete upheaval and really stressful for many horses, yet people expect them to be robots. If they don't immediately settle there are then claims of having been miss-sold. Some do settle immediately, some after a couple of weeks, others months, or a year or more to feel truly secure and relaxed.

 

[LEC]

Completely agree with LEC. Added to this, the number of people that don't allow a new horse time to settle - new yard, new people, new companions. It's complete upheaval and really stressful for many horses, yet people expect them to be robots. If they don't immediately settle there are then claims of having been miss-sold. Some do settle immediately, some after a couple of weeks, others months, or a year or more to feel truly secure and relaxed.

And actually this is another point... people go and buy a horse and it's living on 30 acres with a few other horses around, all managed by one person and lives out 24/7. They then move it to a livery yard with minimal turnout and into a stable environment with 20 other horses who all do their own thing all on completely different schedules. I always look at someone's set up and management and ask myself does the horse look happy and relaxed in this environment and then ask if they will fit into what my set up is. I had one who was born on a racing yard. Couldn't cope with living at the farm with just one other horse, always a bit stressy. Moved her onto a much busier yard and had a much happier horse.

I could go on about this whole subject of buying horses for hours. Don't get me wrong, I have made mistakes buying. Mostly from my own stupidity at missing something, not looking closely enough and not getting them vetted, but also didn't spend that much so took a punt.

 

[LEC]

And why are so many horses "broken" today which, in my opinion, is at the root cause of all the issues owners are trying to deal with. Realise that this angle is slightly off the OP's question but sometimes you have to go and look further up the river to find why people are falling in rather than just pulling them out.

I think this is a bit more complex and nuanced. I would have gone to see a horse 10 years ago and thought it was just a nappy pig that I could sort out. Just needed a stronger rider etc. now I would look at that horse and think hmmm are you trying it on or do you have something wrong with you and would spend a lot more time looking at the behaviour, posture, musculature, feet, general demeanour of the horse and pretty often there is something which will be a red flag.

Our expectations of soundness are different now and so are our abilities to diagnose.

 

[Goldie's mum]

Hi, Welcome to the forum.

Are you researching a dissertation?

There have always been scams, the internet has changed how much we hear about other people's problems, so we get the impression that they're more common than they were.

The definition of a broken horse has changed. People generally expect more, have access to better health care and want to do more than hack, so are less prepared to let their children ride a pony that's 'only a bit lame' and then call it "aged" when it reaches 12 years old. In 1939 we had a jolly good day & went home tired through a golden sunset, for jam by the nursery fire, but it was at the expense of the pony.

If there's to be a register who decides which dealers have "miss sold"? Plenty of buyers miss buy, plenty of ponies just don't settle in certain homes.

Your cow is on the ice.

 

[marmalade76]

Buying horses is an absolute nightmare these days, there's people who lie, people who are honest but think their aging knacker with vices and shocking conformation is worth several grand just because it's a horse. Then there's the actual paying for a horse that is awkward now, transporters waiting for the money to come through in the middle of nowhere with poor internet connection and the worry the buyer's bank will actually let the payment go through. Oh, and the world & his wife wants to set themselves up as dealers. Not sure if I will ever buy or sell another horse again.

I do still struggle to find sympathy for those who fall for scams.

 

[maya2008]

I bought my first owned horse in 2003. It was the time when you bought a paper and phoned the number of the seller based on a few lines of text.

I saw several horses/ponies before I bought one.
- one was so lame the viewing didn’t get very far;
- one was too steady;
- one too spicy;
- one was absolutely lovely but had a questionable history and it turned out the owners were carefully not mentioning the vet history;
- one plaited and reared;
- one didn’t sell all summer long and I finally rang up to view out of curiosity. She came home with me, locking stifles and damaged tooth and all, because she had the most fantastic temperament and was otherwise fine.

This year, in the digital age, I went looking for a pony for my son to jump.
- discounted several based on videos (saving the journey);
- went to see one from video/phone call. Bought the pony.

Last year I bought one for myself.
- viewed one ( issue hidden in images sent)
- viewed another (lovely pony but then my car broke (new clutch needed) so couldn’t buy)
- later in the summer saw an ad just down the road, viewed and brought her home the same day.

I think being able to view videos saves many a journey and that dodgy sellers are no different now than they were before. Buyers who want a pony for a knock down price are obviously going to end up with sick/old/needing vet maintenance/young. That is how the market works!

 

[spacefaer]

I was born in the 70s when there were no videos, rarely pictures and you went through H&H on. Friday morning circling possible ads, ready to leap in the car on a Saturday morning. If they hadn't sold over the weekend, there was something wrong. And because H&H charged by the word, ads were short and succinct!"
You went and tried them, rode them, brought them home. Rarely had them vetted and hoped they'd be OK. In the main they were, but I think we had lower expectations. We were perhaps more forgiving, patient and fixed any problems we came across?

In the last few decades, I've bought duds that I've tried in person, superstars over the phone and everything in between. However, I have added decades of experience in that time and I'd like to think I could spot a lame horse or scammer at 100 paces.

I feel very sorry for people looking now without the nowse to see potential problems. I've done a bit of equine matchmaking for my friends over the years and recently. The number of times I've looked at a horse they've sent me and said no straight off, is scary.

 

[Where’s My Cow]

Hi, Welcome to the forum.

Are you researching a dissertation?

There have always been scams, the internet has changed how much we hear about other people's problems, so we get the impression that they're more common than they were.

The definition of a broken horse has changed. People generally expect more, have access to better health care and want to do more than hack, so are less prepared to let their children ride a pony that's 'only a bit lame' and then call it "aged" when it reaches 12 years old. In 1939 we had a jolly good day & went home tired through a golden sunset, for jam by the nursery fire, but it was at the expense of the pony.

If there's to be a register who decides which dealers have "miss sold"? Plenty of buyers miss buy, plenty of ponies just don't settle in certain homes.

Your cow is on the ice.

Thanks! No dissertation, although I am contemplating writing an article.

With the register I think it would need to be sellers who have actually been through the legal process and convicted of an offence. There’s a lot of “he said, she said” on dodgy dealer pages and quite often it does appear to be naming and shaming individuals who haven’t actually mis-sold at all, but rather the buyer had unrealistic expectations, as per a few comments on here already.

I wondered whether a register of those who have actually committed a crime, rather than the Wild West approach we currently have, would help.

But it was just one idea, and I fancied a discussion around the topic in general. It’s an emotive subject, and I feel for both those who have genuinely been mis-sold despite doing all the checks they’re supposed to, and those who are accused of mis-selling when they haven’t actually done anything wrong. I’ve been both a buyer and a seller, and both sides of the experience have come with their own problems and pitfalls.

 

[ihatework]

I’m not massively convinced it’s changed that much. It’s just nowadays we expect more and accept less ‘standard horse stuff’ and can excuse poor horsemanship for veterinary issues that can be reasonably managed, and then have the access and ability to find those veterinary issues in the first place.

I also think living conditions for horses have changed significantly with the staple of yards with small and restricted turnout for horses not doing enough work.

Thinking back to horses I bought in my young naive days …

1. Cheap eventer. Am pretty convinced it was a ringer. Filtered by 5* eventer through a dealer. Wholly unsuitable purchase. But I was overconfident and stupid. These days it’s would have been a dangerous misdescribed broken horse. Then it was a cheap one pay your money take your chances.

2. Spicy broken eventer. £1. 200% as described and honest sale from producer on behalf of breeder. No regrets on him. But he was an on/off sick note but to date one of the horses that has taught me the most

3. Sensible purchase of appropriate young horse. Nice type. No strings. Turned out to have physical issues and ruined my confidence and died young. That’s just horses. These days it would be plastered across the internet but it really was just shit luck. A decent % of horses have never made the grade under saddle.

4. Sensible purchase of really desirable type. I did everything right. I *think* I was had, but it would never be provable. Indeed I don’t think seller knew for certain there was an issue but I suspect they suspected, and opted for plausible deniability. My money now is on PSSM but it wasn’t really a thing at the time. Buyer beware. Looking back I would question the ‘story’

Then in later years in age of widespread internet I did buy a cheapie that did have info withheld, but then I didn’t ask the appropriate questions and well, he was still a good horse for the money.

 

[honetpot]

And actually this is another point... people go and buy a horse and it's living on 30 acres with a few other horses around, all managed by one person and lives out 24/7. They then move it to a livery yard with minimal turnout and into a stable environment with 20 other horses who all do their own thing all on completely different schedules. I always look at someone's set up and management and ask myself does the horse look happy and relaxed in this environment and then ask if they will fit into what my set up is. I had one who was born on a racing yard. Couldn't cope with living at the farm with just one other horse, always a bit stressy. Moved her onto a much busier yard and had a much happier horse.

I could go on about this whole subject of buying horses for hours. Don't get me wrong, I have made mistakes buying. Mostly from my own stupidity at missing something, not looking closely enough and not getting them vetted, but also didn't spend that much so took a punt.

We once tried a horse for my daughter, nice horse, we both liked it, but I realised it would not fit in to our herd and and management system, and it wouldn't be fair for him to expect to cope with it. We then bought a TB who was used to being stabled but after a summer of being out with the herd decided he never wanted to be in a stable again, his symptoms were so bad it looked like he had colic.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

I’ve contemplated this quite a lot - not just with buying horses.

Hubby is a professional trainer, over and over horses come to him that are supposedly mis-sold, have undisclosed problems, have unravelled within six weeks. Rarely is this actually the case.

People think they are ordering a horse from Amazon. You see the wanted ads……..must do this, jump this high, be quiet, educated etc, etc, etc.

They buy something, usually pay fair market price but usually have not considered their own skills, resources, knowledge, experience or time available to build a relationship with this new horse. When it goes wrong - it’s the horses or the sellers fault.

Due diligence is lacking also. Again it’s a society that is used to buying swiftly and then discarding rather than considering carefully best fit for success.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I think there's been a change in what can be diagnosed and treated- previously, horses would either be ridden through issues we'd now investigate, or if they couldn't be, they'd end up in a tin.
The cost of horses has also increased dramatically, so there's more incentive to sell a horse as a ridden prospect and risk getting caught, than sell to the knacker (also, the knacker will no longer pay you for horses!).
Thirdly, as others have said, some people are less willing to work through issues- look at children's ponies, even when I was growing up children were expected to fall off a lot and get on with it, now society is much more risk averse and (many, not all) parents are loathe to let little Timmy be decked repeatedly until he learns to sit/prevent bucks etc. I think there's a happy medium to be found between 'use child as a crash test dummy' and 'wrap in cotton wool', but I'm not sure the pendulum will swing back now.

 

[rabatsa]

Regular dodgy dealers names were passed round the horse community by word of mouth when I was younger.

When looking for anything it would be run past the Pony Club DC and the local MFH. Sometimes I was told to steer clear, other times to go and see. Twice I was told to buy regardless of what I saw, one the advice was to turn the horse out into a field for 6 weeks and then start again bringing it back into work. Turns out that particular horse had been purchased as a fit hunter and hunted 3 times a fortnight for the full season. It had been kept stabled and fed hunting rations all summer and the owner wondered why it ditched him at the opening meet. He was £20 and I sold him three months later for £300. The other I was told to get its teeth done before trying to ride it, this one was gold dust for pony club parents and after costing £5 I sold him 18 months later for £200.

Today there are too many experts who know nothing about individuals or the animals they are selling.

 

[Daiquiri]

And why are so many horses "broken" today which, in my opinion, is at the root cause of all the issues owners are trying to deal with. Realise that this angle is slightly off the OP's question but sometimes you have to go and look further up the river to find why people are falling in rather than just pulling them out.

Are so many horses broken these days or are we just hanging onto them for longer now instead of shooting them if they're knackered? I can't really picture people 70 years ago retiring a horse at say 7yrs and keeping it as a pet for the next 20 years but that's what we expect from people now if the horse stays field sound.

 

[Auslander]

It's such a minefield! I'm looking for a safe happy hacker for one of my liveries (nervous, but also wants to hack alone in all paces with no shenanigans) at the moment, and although our requirements are modest, and budget generous, I haven't found a single horse that I'd want to put him on yet, other than some maybes that are clearly unsound in the sales video (who is that dumb?)

 

[marmalade76]

Are so many horses broken these days or are we just hanging onto them for longer now instead of shooting them if they're knackered? I can't really picture people 70 years ago retiring a horse at say 7yrs and keeping it as a pet for the next 20 years but that's what we expect from people now if the horse stays field sound.

That's why broken horses are ending up in the hands of unscrupulous dealers, people are guilt tripped into not having them PTS, plus the cost instead of a draw. As unpalatable as it is, the knackerman was much needed and things have not been improved by the loss of this option.

 

[Jenko109]

Sometimes I look at the advert pictures and straight away know I wouldn't buy a second hand washing basket from that person, let alone a living being costing mid four figures.

I can only assume the desperation for a pony, overrides any sense of self preservation.

 

[Waxwing]

It's such a minefield! I'm looking for a safe happy hacker for one of my liveries (nervous, but also wants to hack alone in all paces with no shenanigans) at the moment, and although our requirements are modest, and budget generous, I haven't found a single horse that I'd want to put him on yet, other than some maybes that are clearly unsound in the sales video (who is that dumb?)

This entirely sums up my horse search so far. There have been two I would have liked to view but they sold immediately. The rest are either in Ireland, unsound or would be far too much horse for me. My budget is also realistic.

 

[Birker2020]

I think the cost and issues of importing horses post brexit, with the increase in transport costs, more paperwork than previously and an increase in VAT has turned the number of good dealers who import into a very small pool.

Both dealers who I used previously who imported from Holland have gone out of business.

Trying to even arrange a viewing is impossible most of the time, you have to be very proactive with contacting them or you're beaten to the post.

Post covid has increased the number of buyers due to an increase in demand and there are more unsound horses due to poor breeding.

The cost of buying horses has gone through the roof post covid.

You are made to feel uncomfortable when viewing with the wording of some adverts 'no timewasters, tyre kickers, etc'

Reading between the lines of a lot of adverts 'puts in the odd buck/dips back when you get on/can be strong/ doesn't like jumping/not in work as owner too busy/ no one to ride horse/horse too big for current rider' all scream to me of current or potential issues.

My budget is realistic too.

 

[Birker2020]

There are some dreadful examples of horses for sale at the moment. Seen these three in the last 30 minutes scrolling aimlessly through websites.

Hoping it's just the angles of the photos

 

[Traks]

It's such a minefield! I'm looking for a safe happy hacker for one of my liveries (nervous, but also wants to hack alone in all paces with no shenanigans) at the moment, and although our requirements are modest, and budget generous, I haven't found a single horse that I'd want to put him on yet, other than some maybes that are clearly unsound in the sales video (who is that dumb?)

You say that but even when told the obvious people are that dumb! Someone at my yard has just sold a horse with multiple issues which she hasn’t disclosed at all…she failed a vetting and she actually did put that on the advert and gave a vague reason why…she sold the next day for a few thousand less than originally advertised and they didn’t get him re-vetted. It seems people are that dumb when it comes to saving a few quid…I can’t believe the nerve of the seller not disclosing the horse has ongoing steroid injections for a dodgy back among other issues!

 

[Red-1]

When I was younger, it seems to me that the whole way of riding horses was different. We'd get on and go ride, riding forward and often in a group. Turnout was in a large group on massive fields. When one was 'naughty' it was laughed at and people would come and watch you ride through it.

Now, I appreciate that some of the 'naughty' was physical issue in origin, but often, riding forward and in a group would strengthen up and get the horse going.

I also think we were quicker to PTS a struggling horse. It would be turned out for the summer and tried again, and if it were still lame, it would be PTS. Most of the time, after 6 months turned out, it would actually come sound.

I also remember horses being skinny rather then fat!

These days, horses are kept in isolation, ridden alone on an arena, round and round, in a tight frame. They are fat as a rule. They are not ridden out over all terrain, in a group. When I say that I will have Rigs PTS once he is unsound, it seems to leave people looking aghast.

I think also that the high purchase prices and no £ back on a carcass means people chance their arms in selling on for whatever they can get.

I also think roads are not as safe so people don't want any shennanigans, whereas before we'd trot on with a fresh horse, work them until they were no longer fresh.

 

[emilylou]

When I was younger, it seems to me that the whole way of riding horses was different. We'd get on and go ride, riding forward and often in a group. Turnout was in a large group on massive fields. When one was 'naughty' it was laughed at and people would come and watch you ride through it.

Now, I appreciate that some of the 'naughty' was physical issue in origin, but often, riding forward and in a group would strengthen up and get the horse going.

I also think we were quicker to PTS a struggling horse. It would be turned out for the summer and tried again, and if it were still lame, it would be PTS. Most of the time, after 6 months turned out, it would actually come sound.

I also remember horses being skinny rather then fat!

These days, horses are kept in isolation, ridden alone on an arena, round and round, in a tight frame. They are fat as a rule. They are not ridden out over all terrain, in a group. When I say that I will have Rigs PTS once he is unsound, it seems to leave people looking aghast.

I think also that the high purchase prices and no £ back on a carcass means people chance their arms in selling on for whatever they can get.

I also think roads are not as safe so people don't want any shennanigans, whereas before we'd trot on with a fresh horse, work them until they were no longer fresh.

This is how I still keep horses. If I wasn't able to keep my horses this way I don't think I would keep them. I really think the fitness of both horses and riders has deterioated. They are not fit for purpose. Horses kept in small paddocks alone, milling about or stood still, then in stables. Not ridden every day and not turned out on terrain where they can really move and use their bodies properly. Then expected to perform like an athelete for 20-40 mins a couple of times a week, carrying an equally unfit, unco-ordinated weight on top. Its no wonder more horses have aches and pains and injuries

Turn your horse out in large turnout in groups, hack your horse out over all sorts of terrain, ride it forwards, be fit yourself and ensure your horse is fit and in good condition for what you are asking of him. - these used to be the basics that everyone would do. Now almost no one does this.

 

[Jellymoon]

I don’t think it’s very much different, I was born in the 70s and we bought horses from local dealers or ads in H and H, and I had just the same amount of hit and miss experiences as I have now! It’s just horses and people I’m afraid.

If you got ‘had’ by a dealer, you’d get your own back by telling everyone in the pony club/local hunt and word gets around !!!

I think we had it drummed into us that it was never the horse’s fault (well, I did anyway) and we assumed it was us if the horse wasn’t behaving as expected. Now people just seem to assume the seller lied to them.

Also, vettings/insurance has changed massively and nothing ever seems to get through a vetting or set of X-rays.

Makes the whole thing very unappealing for bother sellers and buyers, and it’s all turned into a bit of a war.

Also, was thinking this the other day, the only people I recall having horses back in the day were farmers or wealthy land owners. You needed a lot of land to keep horses fed and happy without costing a fortune, and that hasn’t really changed. The more horses you can afford, the less you care if some don’t make it.

The leisure horse industry has boomed, with the one horse owners on livery yards. There’s a lot of pressure on that one horse.

 

[Horsedad83]

The horse market is in a dire state. In the last 3 months I have seen so many ridiculous adverts:
A 25 year old pony being brought back into work for jumping.
Lame, overworked cobs.
So many just backed 4/5 year olds that will hack out alone, have 3 paces and will jump a 90cm course, perfect for a novice or mother daughter share.
It seems like people would even put a saddle on their dear old mother to make a few quid . "She's a good do'er, doesn't nap often, isn't mareish, good with the dentist, never sick or sorry. Does like to tell a good story, but it has never affected her work."

As many have stated there are green buyers too. Facebook seems to be flooded with new dealers and producers, taking advantage of the high prices. And a lot of people are willing to buy unseen which works in the dealer's favour.

Facebook doesn't seem to police scammers, I came across someone who had been scammed into paying a deposit for a non existent horse. A scammer had created a whole page using other people's horse pictures from horsemart, worryingly there were at least 60 comments on each advert asking for more information.

I agree that a proven school master or pony club pony pony has always had value, but the current prices being asked for something low level, green or aged are shocking.

 

[marmalade76]

A bit of an essay but I do need to have a moan about this, been stewing over it for a couple of weeks! Some might remember I posted a couple of weeks ago about possibly buying a young pony as a companion for my aged ex polo mare. Most said they'd had good experiences with youngsters & oldies together but a couple did not and my YO was also concerned that it might not be the right thing to do. Then an old predominantly arab polo pony popped up looking for a new home that was in the next village - jackpot! Advertised on a polo pony rehoming group where ponies could not be sold but only loaned, given away or a max rehoming fee of £500. Pony sounded lovely and there was a lot of interest but the owner wanted a "good home" and to "stay in touch", what could be better than someone in the next village? Private yard, with polo pony experience, arab experience, already committed to a retired polo pony, references offered - I genuinely thought I'd be top of the list! No. Owner actually wanted horse gone ASAP and £500 for her (she'd moved the horse back home from a polo club to her own tiny yard which she is renting out to someone else so had to reduce their rent plus not a blade of grass in the tiny paddocks so lots of hay being fed already, her reason for getting rid was financial IMO), no loans, no trials to make sure everybody involved will get along. She actually used me to pressure someone else to get there sooner before my already arranged second viewing. I was annoyed, I felt I'd been misled to an extent but my YO and good friend did say that there could be a reason why she didn't want the horse in the next village, who knows!?

 

[CastlelackSportHorses]

I definitely think buying/selling horses 20 years ago was much easier. Well in Ireland anyway, as posted you would get the paper and the "Pink ads" was the place to find them.
I remember seeing an add for a 4yr old TB mare for sale quite local, and Dad wanted to get me something to move off ponies, so we went and saw this mare.
She lunged perfect, owner popped a few fences with her on lunge and we bought, 1k, a lot of money back then.
I got roughly 5 years and a foal out of that mare, there was something very wrong with her which was non disclosed. But again, 20 years ago no one vetted and we just took our chances.

These days I dunno, I'm very sketchy.
I still have a wonderful mare for sale over a month later, one family that viewed her I wouldn't have some them a goldfish, just got that gut feeling. So she's staying put until the perfect home comes along!