Buying unseen

[Mrs. Jingle]

I know this topic has been discussed in the past but are the majority of people still buying unseen and unvetted too in some cases? I am still seeing post after post on Faceache from disappointed buyers bemoaning the horse that has arrived unseen, that is in fact either a walking vet bill or a very, very challenging ride.

I imagine that this idea of buying unseen all started out during Covid, and I can see that in difficult times like that people might be tempted to take more of a gamble. Is it still as popular as it would appear to be on FB, have you done it recently? Did it work out OK for you? Why did you decide to buy unseen?

Personally I have only bought unseen once. That was on a horse I imported from America and after viewing hours and hours of video footage and getting a very detailed vetting done. He turned out to be exactly as described and very healthy and rode as described and as shown in the video clips. I would never do that again and certainly wouldn't buy unseen from anywhere in the UK or Ireland.

 

[Ahrena]

I have bought 2 youngsters unseen.
1 was a weanling moor pony whose purpose was to be a companion for my weanling.

The other was a 3 year old from the Clifden Connemara sales although I did have an agent on the ground who checked her and bid for me.

I wouldn’t buy a ridden horse unseen but would a youngster.

 

[Glitter's fun]

I've never bought unseen or unvetted. Can't even imagine how it would feel to be the kind of person who would be OK with that!
I'm not buying £100,000 performance horses, far from it, but my emotional investment is high & I wouldn't want to send back/PTS/sell on if I made a mistake so I'm a very nervous buyer.

 

[Xmasha]

Ive bought foals/weanlings unseen. Usually done it when i needed a companion for a homebred. All have been nice types/ no issues. But ive never and would never buy a ridden horse unseen.

Ive seen lots of people complaining on FB too, the ones ive seen have bought from dodgy dealers and basically been scammed.

 

[blitznbobs]

I don’t understand buying unseen … I never have. Unless you are buying for a business and buying 10 say from a known breeder in Ireland for example. But I value temperament over everything else and just meeting a horse is incredibly valuable to me … I can tell a lot just patting their nose over the stable door. Indeed that has been a deal breaker for me in the past.

Each to their own but if you do this don’t whinge when it’s not what you wanted it to be

 

[Peglo]

I bought Tali unseen. She came from Italy so I wouldn’t have been able to view but it was in covid times also.

Why? My dream was to have another haflinger and I randomly searched for haflingers for sale and came across her and I couldn’t get her out of my head. It was so odd. There was some invisible pull.
It was Covid times so things were crazy and with OH on board, I did it.

Did it work out? She is the best thing ever. It just feels right with her. If I never rode her again just having her in my life is everything. But riding her is also an absolute joy. Everyday she makes me smile and I’m so so thankful I made that crazy decision to buy her.

I’m not sure I believe in fate etc but there was something there with her.

I wouldn’t buy unseen from a private seller in the UK though.

 

[rara007]

No way are the majority of private buyers buying unseeen.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

No way are the majority of private buyers buying unseeen.

Sorry I didn't word that well, I meant the majority during Covid, not now. Do the majority that would have done it in Covid still do so now may be a better way to word it. But as an afterthought, maybe there is a FB demographic of would be buyers that would take the risk. Not to put too finer point on it, some of them (well a good many of them that complain on FB of failed unseen buying anyway) they do sound or read like inexperienced first time buyers that seem to take the risk more. I am not stating this as fact, just a possibility why it so often seems to go pear shaped for them.

 

[meleeka]

I kind of bought one unseen, from a friend. I did have the option of returning her if needed and she was only a companion. I can't understand anyone buying a ridden horse unseen, let alone not having it vetted.

 

[nutjob]

There is certainly an endless stream of novice riders / owners who are buying unseen and unvetted. However, it's difficult to know what percentage this is. They seem to rely on the distance selling regulations which allow them to return a horse which was unseen and untried within I think 30 days. Many of the well dodgy dealers rely on this also, then they either refuse to take the horse back or take it back and don't refund all or any of the money. All their assets are in someone else's name so it doesn't matter how many ccj's they have they never pay up.

There does seem to be a demographic of people who do this, and they are the people who would most benefit from trying the horse themselves and having a vetting.

There's now a series of fake fb profiles pretending to be equestrian centers or dealers using stolen adverts and asking for deposits up front to hold for a viewing or simply collecting money from the buying unseen / unvetted brigade when they don't actually have the horse at all and live overseas.

There are still a whole host of people that think you can get a well schooled, vice free no health issue, does everything 8yo pony / horse that will look after them or their novice child for £3k and are absolutely astounded when they are told that this is not the case nowadays.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I bought Dex unseen, and he wasn't cheap at £6.5k not incl transport, but I did have a low level vetting done, I hadn't enquired about any others and there was maybe 40 seconds of video total and maybe 6 photos. Something in my gut was telling me this horse was the one, he had a kind eye and big ears and the dealer was largely recommended on all the pages I had seen. I always thought I would never consider it, but I just did it and I realise I got incredibly lucky - this was May 2023.

He was 2yo, rising 3 when I put my deposit on and unbacked and largely unhandled other than being freeschooled for the advert photos, I wanted something unspoilt and I wanted an ID which I couldn't afford ready made, I wouldn't have bought a ridden one with more mileage unseen. I was however prepared to sell him on if he wasn't for me, or we didn't get along ridden etc and he actually was actually worth more than I paid for him the second he stepped foot on UK soil.

He is the best decision I ever made, and definitely my horse of a lifetime, I know that already. I probably would do it again, but only with something unbacked and largely untouched. I'm not sure I would actually buy a ridden one now, it's too much of a minefield and I am so enjoying having the level of groundwork I have done and how easy that is making everything, and putting in the buttons that I want..

Videos can be so deceptive too, there are a couple of horses I know personally that look like they go sweetly but are actually completely stiff, don't understand basic aids and completely concrete in the mouth.

 

[Abacus]

I must be one of the only ones! I have bought 4 unseen, one from Ireland and the other three from way up north.

The pony from Ireland was a yearling and she was both cheap and fabulous. She sadly didn't make the height I wanted (she started at 13.1 and ended at 13.3!) but was otherwise a dream.

The other three were on on a two-week trial during which I could have them vetted. For me it made more sense to risk the cost of transport both ways than to drive up there, spend probably a whole day, and only get an hour with the horse compared with two weeks of trying them. I kept all three. Only one had medical issues (which emerged after about 6 months and could have happened to any purchase). One was the soundest horse I ever had. The third has also been brilliant, a couple of quirks but he's utterly lovely. I wouldn't just buy unseen but the trial mitigated the risk, and so all I was risking was the cost of transport each way. Two of them were reasonably expensive for me (between 5 and 10k) but not absurdly so, and they were well priced for what they were.

 

[nagblagger]

Hands up I have bought unseen !

A white cob during covid to ride, got videos of her being ridden (of sorts) down the road, was aware she had probably lost a few years in the advert and not schooled, all i wanted was a happy hacker good in traffic. I did have low expectations but we had a good 3 months of riding before bogof arrived. (dealer did want to buy her back when he heard she was in foal).

A yearling gelded donkey with passport, got sent photos of documents - he was not castrated, no come back on the vet who completed passport inaccurately as 'i was not the client'.

Mildred the mule- enough said, love her! But did see a video that proved to me we would bond. Even then the dealer 'lost a few' years in advert - i put him right as saw her go through an auction.

However I have low expectations, low budget to 'waste' expect something smaller, older than what is advertised and facilities to turn out in my 'field ornament' herd if unrideable or confident to pts if necessary.

 

[Nonjumper]

Buying unseen has been happening for a long, long time however on the whole I would say the reason you appear to be seeing it more now is because it seems normal these days for complete novices to do it, some of whom have barely even ridden before, and getting taken for a ride in the process. At the end of the day, these people must be an absolute dream for the plethora of dodgy dealers who are out there.

Personally I would never buy anything above the age of 1 year I hadn't seen with my own eyes. Vetting? ... I suppose it depends what you want the horse for, for ridden work yes, for anything else, possibly not.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I think novices do it more as they have less awareness of what can go wrong, or how complex horses can be and/or their own abilities. You don't know what you don't know and all that.

 

[Peglo]

There's now a series of fake fb profiles pretending to be equestrian centers or dealers using stolen adverts and asking for deposits up front to hold for a viewing or simply collecting money from the buying unseen / unvetted brigade when they don't actually have the horse at all and live overseas.

A lass I know put a £1200 deposit down for a horse that didn’t exist. Obviously lost all her money. Sounds like it was from one of these types.
She was desperate for a certain breed and I think very naive by the sounds of it. Unfortunately she didn’t ask someone with buying knowledge to help. It was her first time buying a horse and exactly the type of person these people hope will come along.

 

[j1ffy]

I bought Chilli unseen but he was a weanling, I knew the stud well and my trainer had seen him in the flesh. Didn't stop things going wrong this year (aged 7) but that's horses sadly, if I'd seen him in the flesh it wouldn't have made a difference!

I wouldn't buy a ridden horse unseen or unvetted...in fact I did a 400 mile round trip on Saturday to try one! The initial outlay is far less than the cost of keeping a horse for 10-20 years, even before you factor in large vet bills.

 

[I'm Dun]

I bought Tali unseen. She came from Italy so I wouldn’t have been able to view but it was in covid times also.

Why? My dream was to have another haflinger and I randomly searched for haflingers for sale and came across her and I couldn’t get her out of my head. It was so odd. There was some invisible pull.
It was Covid times so things were crazy and with OH on board, I did it.

Did it work out? She is the best thing ever. It just feels right with her. If I never rode her again just having her in my life is everything. But riding her is also an absolute joy. Everyday she makes me smile and I’m so so thankful I made that crazy decision to buy her.

I’m not sure I believe in fate etc but there was something there with her.

I wouldn’t buy unseen from a private seller in the UK though.

Same with my very best boy who I still miss dearly. His owner messaged me about my mare I was selling and in the process of checking her out I saw his ad and that was that. Never went to look, just sent some cash over and had him delivered. But I am an idiot, love myself some high risk gambling and am happy to fix things and change my goals to suit. He was perfect. Much better than described.

He was an ex racer from a UK seller, so I really was playing with fire!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I couldn't do it I have to see them how they interact,temperament and personality is everything to me, I normally know within 5 minutes of meeting a horse if its for me I have to have that feeling that I have to have them no matter what.

 

[MissTyc]

Only yearlings for me and the odd ex-racer of known history and from the field, and only for a price I can afford to lose.

I "tried" (not very hard) to sell my quirky mare, but too many buyers seemed to want to buy her unseen (which means I don't see them either - seeing them interact and ride is important to me). The one that did turn up had a trailer in tow and gave off Undercover Dealer vibes. As someone else said, my emotional investment is too high. So, I couldn't sell unseen, let alone buy a riding horse.

 

[rabatsa]

I have purchased several donkeys from dealers unseen.

 

[nagblagger]

@MissTyc - you got me thinking, although i can buy unseen, I could never sell to an unseen buyer!

 

[Red-1]

I bought Rigs seen and ridden but not vetted as he had not a hope of passing anyway He is ace and has done everything I've asked of him and is still trugging along 4 years later. We were out hacking for 2 hours yesterday, he is a fun turbo cob to hack. he's also won at trailblazers dressage and trotted round a small clear round show. He's also done PAT type visits to a care home and had kids riding at home.



I had BH vetted but bought him unseen from Ireland. I saw a video and photos and spoke to the dealer/vendor. he was a sweet type and I decided that if he didn't suit me then he would suit someone. I had the vet out after a few days to vaccinate and the vet did his damdest to find fault but admitted he could not. BH is fabulous. Done loads of hacking and unaffiliated dressage, SJ and eventing, and has now started BS jumping. He did a hunt ride in autumn and I box out to a country park happily alone to blast round some XC fences. He is a best friend type, kind and easy. In fact, he is currently teaching my boyfriend to ride. He is very forgiving and tries to work out what is required. I've had him 3 years.



Would I do it again? I'm not sure. Rigs was in Covid 2020 and BH in Covid 2021, horses were hard to buy! I did due diligence with both and was prepared to sell on immediately, at a loss if necessary, if they'd not been as described.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I know this topic has been discussed in the past but are the majority of people still buying unseen and unvetted too in some cases? I am still seeing post after post on Faceache from disappointed buyers bemoaning the horse that has arrived unseen, that is in fact either a walking vet bill or a very, very challenging ride.

I imagine that this idea of buying unseen all started out during Covid, and I can see that in difficult times like that people might be tempted to take more of a gamble. Is it still as popular as it would appear to be on FB, have you done it recently? Did it work out OK for you? Why did you decide to buy unseen?

Personally I have only bought unseen once. That was on a horse I imported from America and after viewing hours and hours of video footage and getting a very detailed vetting done. He turned out to be exactly as described and very healthy and rode as described and as shown in the video clips. I would never do that again and certainly wouldn't buy unseen from anywhere in the UK or Ireland.

No I won't I like to see in person what I am spending my money on.

 

[maya2008]

I bought one youngster unseen (although we did collect). Have had several people wanting to buy my youngster unseen. Initially I said no. I've wavered...am considering it with the latest lady because we had a long phone call and a more involved discussion. Offered her a FaceTime viewing to be sure, but she was able to answer all my questions, has the support needed etc. Said youngster is also very easy - gets on with every horse and human, laid back, not such a risk to send off to a family without them viewing in person. I wouldn't consider it with anything more sensitive!

 

[ihatework]

I’ve bought unseen once and whilst it wasn’t a disaster by any means, and the horse was accurately described, had I tried the horse I wouldn’t have bought him.

I’ve learnt over the years that I get quite a strong gut feel on a horse when I meet them and for me that’s the over riding thing on whether I buy or not. So I need to meet them.

 

[HorseMaid]

It wasn't quite unseen but we drove "up north" to collect a bargain basement 14.2 6yo pretty coloured mare a few months ago - advertised as ridden but no facilities to try/owner was ill. Didn't vet her and she's definitely a price I can afford to lose. I pretty much looked at her over the stable door, loaded her and took her home. So far she hasn't really done much wrong apart from being a bit of a baby but she has been very good when ridden!

 

[Goldenstar]

If you have lots of horses I can understand why you buy unseen ,dealers will do it saves time and a loss now and again is part of the business.
I can see why you might buy young stock in numbers unseen or a companion but if you only have one ridden horse the risk is too great.
Vetting and viewing does not guarantee success but it’s still the best chance you have of getting it right.

 

[BBP]

I couldn't do it I have to see them how they interact,temperament and personality is everything to me, I normally know within 5 minutes of meeting a horse if its for me I have to have that feeling that I have to have them no matter what.

I’m the same, but then the ‘I have to have it no matter what’ horse turns out to have a conformational defect or sweetitch .

I did buy my little (big) Connemara unseen during the pandemic as a long yearling. He has certainly thrown up some challenges but I don’t regret it. He has the potential to be absolutely smashing if I can get him sorted, and is just a lovely funny incredibly intelligent person to have around. He is teaching me so much. Every horse is an opportunity to learn something new, even if that something is patience!

 

[tda]

I initially went, ooh no not me, but then realised I have done.....3 times, all very pre covid tho
1, blue roan mare, wanted one for ages (shallow, me?) I did know the sellers/breeder tho, she has been an angel but has sweet itch which was not obvious when she arrived, but I love her
2. Locally bred pony, I enquired but told she was going to York sales, she was sold outside the ring and I feel went thru a couple of dealers before she appeared with a dealer on Preloved. I obviously had to buy her then paid online and sent a friend to pick her up. She has her issues but is safe and steady and i could put anyone on her
3. Brood mare that I knew as a friend had previously owned her, paid the money and sent same friend to collect her

I wouldn't sell to any one who had not viewed any of mine