Calling all '''Dutch Gag''' users please!!

Degan

Degan

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what ring do you use ?? and for what disciplines?? also how do you like them / find they work in your experiences??

the reason why im asking is im having a few bitting issues atm and have noticed (whilst lookin at sponsored ride photos) that the majority of people riding in a dutch gag have it on the middle ring (the one between the bottom and the snaffle ring) so basically am being nosey
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thanks
 
Please read dressage devils explanation of how a dutch gag works:


http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4035180/an/0/page/12#4035180

The majority of people ride with only one rein and on one of the bottom two rings because they dont know how the bit should be used. This creates a massive amount of pressure on the poll due to the leverage created by the length of the shank/cheek. This in turn often makes the horse stronger because it is desperate to get away from the pressure.
If you are going to use one please use two reins.
 
Have ALWAYS ridden in two reins with gags.
Snaffle and lower rein for leverage when necessary.
I never understood at PC why people used top and bottom but on roundings.....?
 
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The majority of people ride with only one rein and on one of the bottom two rings because they dont know how the bit should be used. This creates a massive amount of pressure on the poll due to the leverage created by the length of the shank/cheek.

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Personally (having used one in the past and played with the action, putting fingers under headpiece, etc, etc) I don't think it DOES put a massive amount of pressure on the poll. If a curb strap is used then yes, it would, but I still think 'massive' is overstating things.
 
I agree PF, and incidentally the dutch gag has a head raising, not a head lowering action anyway, so it seems unlikely that it has 'massive' poll pressure.

I evented my horse to PN in it, found the steering wooly in it, only used one rein as frankly without a curb chain it has no curb action so two reins aren't essential and I do not want to struggle with 2 reins XC even though I ride perfectly well in a double bridle on the flat.

On the flip side, because it has a head raising action and horse had a naturally high head carriage into a fence, I ended up swapping to a pelham as he stuck his head in the air and ran through my hands in the gag. So he's now in a jointed pelham with roundings and events perfectly happily at Novice and SJs to newcomers in it.

It's a useful bit I think, wouldn't be my first choice in future though as steering is just a bit lacking in it.
 
i use a 2 ring for show jumping and a 3 ring waterford for hunting / XC.

i use roundings normally - im not a fan of 2 reins for XC etc.

as for the one rein, i have had to go one rein on the bottom ring of my 2 ring (had to at weekend actually as pony was too excited and strong) ...i know your not meant to but my pony is happy with that and she is pretty sensitive to over bitting.
 
I use one. . .

On the second whole for xc and sometimes for showjumping if i need extra control because of in a small arena. . .

I dont use two reins. . .hate the fiddle of having two in my hands tbh. . .

But i do love the bit. . .suits my lad. . .but i have lost it annoyingly having moved yards. . .grr
 
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The majority of people ride with only one rein and on one of the bottom two rings because they dont know how the bit should be used. This creates a massive amount of pressure on the poll due to the leverage created by the length of the shank/cheek.

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally (having used one in the past and played with the action, putting fingers under headpiece, etc, etc) I don't think it DOES put a massive amount of pressure on the poll. If a curb strap is used then yes, it would, but I still think 'massive' is overstating things.

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An explanation of why i feel there is massive poll pressure from a dutch gag (sorry, long):
Research has shown that a professional rider exerts around 3lbs pressure on the rein this goes upto 75lbs with an inexperienced rider.
In a snaffle, 1lb of pressure on the rein = 1lb pressure on the bit. Beacuse the dutch gag has a shank/cheek the pressure is multiplied. The amount it is multiplied by is determined by the ratio between the amount of shank abve the mouthpiece compared to the amount below. For the dutch gag pressure is multiplied by approximately 3.
So, going back to the rein pressure from different riders, a professional rider will be exerting 3x3 lbs pressure, so 9 and an inexperienced rider will exert 3x75 lbs pressure, so 225.
The wider the area the pressure is distributed, the better.
Say the area over the poll that the bridle covers is 4 square inches then the experienced rider is exerting 2.25 lbs per square inch on the poll. The inexperienced rider is exerting 56.25 lbs per square inch.
At 1.5 lbs per square inch capillaries are compressed. Over a short period of time 1.5lbs per square inch will cause bruising.
So just imagine what 56 lbs per square inch for an hour every day is doing to the horse. Just because you cant see the bruising (and other tissue damage) it doesnt mean it is not there.
Sorry about the long explanation but i just wanted to explain why i said massive, there is logic behind it!
 
I used to use one for hunting and XC on my TB - most of the time she was a hand squeeze stop on a snaffle but when doing faster work needed just a little more so I could still just close my hand to have her go from gallop to walk fast.

I could have hunted in a snaffle but would have had to take a bit of a pull. She was very fussy with her mouth and hated much movement.

I used the middle ring and one rein - as said, a squeeze was all that was required. Had I needed to take more of a hold, then I would have used two reins as I always do on a pelham.

For us, this was a perfect solution. She was happy in it and I knew I could pull up very quicky and had a lot of control over her if needed.

I also used this on my first gypsy mare initially for XC - same rein and one rein, again just to give a bit more brakes as she was too green to go fast into the fences and a snaffle was again going to need me to give a pull to get the same effect. I will probably do the same with my young cob first few times as he is not strong, but could be and I hate to pull and would rather they learnt not to do the same from the start.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The majority of people ride with only one rein and on one of the bottom two rings because they dont know how the bit should be used. This creates a massive amount of pressure on the poll due to the leverage created by the length of the shank/cheek.

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally (having used one in the past and played with the action, putting fingers under headpiece, etc, etc) I don't think it DOES put a massive amount of pressure on the poll. If a curb strap is used then yes, it would, but I still think 'massive' is overstating things.

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I agree on this one - I have and occasionally do use a gag with just one rein. Don't see the problem really as long as you have good hands.
 
I use a dutch gag on the second ring just for some extra brakes if and when I need it. Mare can get a bit strong. Nothing major but seems to ignore a snaffle. I have pretty soft hands so I don't personally think I'm doing any damage.
 
Every horse is different and my lad would let me know if he was getting too much poll pressure and he is worked in a French link continental snaffle on the 2nd ring. He works in a snaffle too but he is 18hh and weighs about 850kg so a lot of horse to keep between your leg and hand when you are teaching him something new, he has a tendency to drop on his forehand and at that point the bit helps me to lift him then i can relax he returns to self carriage.

So in short i think whatever works for your horse but be prepared to listen to your horse. No matter what a bit is "meant" to do if my horse doesn’t like it then i would try something else.
 
the bit is only as strong as the person holding the reins. I have had many years in polo an my exercise bridle was always a dutch gag on bottom ring just in case they got too fruity. To be honest it is not a strong bit unless you have a curb and has very small amount of pole pressure and unlike some gags like cheltnahm gags dose not rise in the horses mouth. (up leather or rope check pieces)

have also had dressage and jumpers in this bit and have changed the ring around as needed, All horse are different so listen to your horse and your instructor.
 
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