Calling all Laminitis Experts - Is there hope when all hope seems gone?

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Catj1uk

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I have previously posted this -

My Welsh Cob went down with laminitis for the first time on 28 May so is starting his fourth week of box rest today. Xrays showed slight rotation in three feet and was very very sore on all feet. Vet/Farrier took all four shoes off and he has been on a deep bed with frog supports on all feet with the Stable Support System (basically thick foam pads) on his front feet too. He is much more comfortable on his hinds, not tucked up anymore and not shifting his weight but still sore on fronts when moving around his stable though. He is on Bute and ACPs with a detox diet, soaked hay, small low calorie feeds etc... He is lying down more though which worries me as although this will give his feet a rest, he must feel that he needs to do it to get some relief.

We x-ray again on Friday and if there is no further rotation, we are going to try glue on shoes so I'll let you know if they help. Good luck with your horse's recovery.

.......................................................................................................

Now as of 4th July -
Dexter had further x-rays two weeks ago which showed more rotation in all feet plus a bit of separation in one foot, we took pads off and shod with glue on Imprints which he has had on for 10 days now. He is noticebly more uncomfortable on these, he is now shifting his feet again and is very tucked up with pain. We have changed his painkiller from Bute to Metacam, still taking ACPs and still on the detox diet. He has shed loads of weight but he is in as much discomfort as he was as the start of this. My Vet is now talking in terms of there is not much more that we can do and head ruling heart, I am inclined to agree. This is week 5 of box rest. Has anyone got any more ideas or experience in getting through this. Are we going to give up too easily? I don't want to make that mistake but I don't want to put him through months of discomfort and solitude if the end result will be the same.

All advice appreciated with thanks...
 
Firstly, so sorry for you and your boy. I was in this situation last year with 7yr old mare, diagnosed with Cushings/Laminitis. The vets and farrier, plus us worked together but she did not make much improvement from Jan to March and then in March, the pedal bone rotated again. The vet and i had long talk, farrier was wonderful too but all agreed it was fairer on her to PTS. Insurance company suggested dorsal wall resection, with at least a year rest as an option but she left us on a sunny day last March. I never ever want to see another horse in distress like laminitis.
However, each case has it's own background and I hope the vets' suggest a positive outcome - there was an article in last weeks H&H seeming to sugest there is hope when all hope has gone? My thoughts are with you and sorry to be negative with my case.
 
Rotation can be sorted through very frequent and correct trimming, and waiting for the new hoof to grow down.

Sinking is more of a problem and may leave a horse with very flat soles and a permanent tendency to sore feet.

I don't understand why so many people insist that shoeing is the way forward. In the first few days after being shod, I can see that some shoes may offer support to the pedal bone, but once the hoof wall has grown even a mm or so, then there is going to be an increasing distance between floor and pedal bone....... and that gap is exactly what the foot can sink down into, making it an even worse problem.

Personally, I would contact the best trimmer in your area, wherever you are, and ask their thoughts and look at going down the route of rehabbing unshod.

With my girl who had acute laminitis last year, I did minimal trimming every few days to make sure the outer hoof wall was always off the ground, so that the hoof was not constantly being stressed. Any decent trimmer can show you how to do a very minimal tidyup in between their frequent visits, so that you give the hoof the best possible chance of growing down strong.

Another advantage of going through the rehab unshod is that you can keep the breakover back all the time, which again helps comfort levels and the new hoof growing down.

Also, you can use hoof boots and pads when the horse has to walk over more challenging surfaces like tarmac, and once a good trim is in place (which prevents the risk of further sinking/rotation) then you can encourage the horse to have some gentle movement to stimulate blood flow and healing.

Whereabouts in the country are you?

Sarah
 
I am no expert but lost our old girl to this 4 weeks ago.

A similar history to yours except that on week 2 she looked better (she had been ushod for years and we left her that way) and on week 3 she suddenly got worse for no obvious reason. She was 28 and miserable and uncomfortable despite all the basic care we could give so we called it a day. The idea of keeping her off the grass and in low grade discomfort for the rest of her life seemed wrong and the vet and farrier agreed.

Our mare had cushings and this was the cause of her first and only attack of laminitis. Have you had yours tested? Our girl had it for 2 years prior to this attack and was managed really well on pergolide. She was not overweight and had never been lame before.

It may be worth looking into this. I hope you have some success.
 
It is not about how long you keep going with treatment. People who keep on for month after month are not "more caring" than you. Sometimes these things happen fast and ponies deteriorate fast. if the vet says there isn't much more he can do - do the decent thing for your pony.

I had to make the same decision last Feb. My pony was quite obviously in increasing amounts of pain each day. Absolutely nothing the vets or farriers did seemed to help him. I decided I had seen enough. I loved that little pony and it broke my heart to feel so helpless. I did the only thing that I could do to relieve his suffering.

Do not be swayed by people telling you how they carried on for month after month. Everyone's animal is different.
 
Do we have any idea why the lami happened?

Hyperinsulinamia? Cushings? systemic inflammatory disease?

What is the horse eating now?

Has the horse any history? How were his hooves beforehand? Do you have pics of them now?

If you want a different view you are welcome to post on here (even if you intend to stay shod).
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/index.php?sid=aef674bec72d73a590928efbdc336097

It's interesting to me that he become more uncomfortable with the imprints - loading on that weak connection wasn't right for him and it appears box rest didn't prevent further rotation as it's supposed to do :rolleyes: - so it may be necessary for you to look outside the box at other treatments methods......
 
I lost my old boy to lammi 7 years ago and it still seems like yesterday, bless him.

The important thing, is to get a farrier & vet that you trust implicity to always have foremost the welfare of your horse - and follow their advice. It helps greatly if vet & farrier can work together well; what you don't need is professional conflict about how to treat/trim etc, the "team" have to be able to get on and work together.

The most important thing basically is what others have said, and to remember that it is YOUR horse and YOUR decision as to how far down the road you will go. And that won't be the same as anyone else's. So whilst its so easy to read about/hear about someone else's "success story" - and how they persevered and everything seemed hopeless and then everything worked out OK, that may have been the case in their situation but (sorry to say this coz we all wish it were otherwise) that may not be the case in yours or someone else's and the last thing you want to be doing is beating yourself up.

Anyone with a lammi case will have beaten themselves up and blamed themselves for it; but when you've got lammi and cushings and god-knows-what-else going on, the whole metabolic system goes into freefall and sometimes things are just inevitable.

It may not hurt for you to ask for a 2nd opinion from your vet: but personally I'd resist any pressure to send your horse off to vet college or hospital - a very dear friend who used to work for a veterinary practice said to me that if the prognosis is "hopeless", the last thing you really want to do to your dearly loved horse is to send it off to vet college or hospital where everything will be alien and its away from familiar surroundings, only to have to face the fact that they'd probably make the PTS decision in the end anyway.

Sorry, I'm not telling you what you want to hear; I feel your pain, have been there, and know what you'll be going through.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
but personally I'd resist any pressure to send your horse off to vet college or hospital - a very dear friend who used to work for a veterinary practice said to me that if the prognosis is "hopeless", the last thing you really want to do to your dearly loved horse is to send it off to vet college or hospital where everything will be alien and its away from familiar surroundings, only to have to face the fact that they'd probably make the PTS decision in the end anyway.
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Agree with this. Transporting a horse will mean bouncing them up and down on a damaged laminae - that's about as far from box rest as you can get, let alone the stress of the journey.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I lost my old boy to lammi 7 years ago and it still seems like yesterday, bless him.

The important thing, is to get a farrier & vet that you trust implicity to always have foremost the welfare of your horse - and follow their advice. It helps greatly if vet & farrier can work together well; what you don't need is professional conflict about how to treat/trim etc, the "team" have to be able to get on and work together.

The most important thing basically is what others have said, and to remember that it is YOUR horse and YOUR decision as to how far down the road you will go. And that won't be the same as anyone else's. So whilst its so easy to read about/hear about someone else's "success story" - and how they persevered and everything seemed hopeless and then everything worked out OK, that may have been the case in their situation but (sorry to say this coz we all wish it were otherwise) that may not be the case in yours or someone else's and the last thing you want to be doing is beating yourself up.

Anyone with a lammi case will have beaten themselves up and blamed themselves for it; but when you've got lammi and cushings and god-knows-what-else going on, the whole metabolic system goes into freefall and sometimes things are just inevitable.

It may not hurt for you to ask for a 2nd opinion from your vet: but personally I'd resist any pressure to send your horse off to vet college or hospital - a very dear friend who used to work for a veterinary practice said to me that if the prognosis is "hopeless", the last thing you really want to do to your dearly loved horse is to send it off to vet college or hospital where everything will be alien and its away from familiar surroundings, only to have to face the fact that they'd probably make the PTS decision in the end anyway.

Sorry, I'm not telling you what you want to hear; I feel your pain, have been there, and know what you'll be going through.
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Agree with this 100%. Going through exactly the same at the moment. Laminitis in december last year then was diagnosed with pedal bone rotation and the hoof wall separating aswell just 3 weeks ago. Vet had suggested sending him to " dick vet " but knew in my heart thats not what i wanted for him and wouldnt be fair at 21 as he gets stressed when left in new places so that wuld make him even worse. Luckily my farrier and vet decided shoes off then trimming every few weeks and box rest and 1/2 bute a day. Luckily my boy isnt too sore and is moving fairly well. Some days we even have "cold feet" and he is walking easier. I know myself i'm not keeping him in the rest of his days but i owe him the chance as he's given me so much. If he was in pain them i'm sure i would be rethinking that. We are pretty lucky so far as both my vet and farrier are amazing and go with whatever my choice is. We hav more xrays tomorrow so fingers crossed they look ok but basically just playing it by ear.
Every case different though and has to be whats best for your boy. Thinking of you though as i know the stress and upset its causing me.
 
The following is basically how I deal with lamanitic attacks. I posted this the other day and am putting it on here for your information and consideration.

Going off the time of year and the type of weather this season, coupled with the fact you have a Welsh Cob, the chances are that the lamanitis is a result of the grass and that Welsh Cobs have a predisposition to be Insulin Resistant to some degree. (There is no scientific proof of this, but, I've seen an awful lot that are).

"Laminitis predominantly induced by sugar/starch intake, is a catastrophic attack on the horses metabolism and the resulting breakdown in the lamina is a symptom of the disease. Concentrating on treating the feet is not a cure for laminitis. The resulting damage to the feet and the severity of rotation of the pedal bone cannot be cured or put right as it were. The feet are only repaired by the horse itself once the underlying problem has been addressed, and new lamina reattach from the coronet band down. This process is on going and continuous, but can only be successful when the cause of the disease has been removed.

Concentrating on treating the feet is really a waste of time. They cannot be repaired and the horse needs to grow new ones, which they always do if allowed to, often in spite of some of the treatments applied to the feet rather than because of them. Therefore, the application of special shoes and pads to the lamanitic foot is often painful for the horse and always detrimental.

Whilst I see no value in attempting to cure laminitis by treating the feet, it is and must be a priority to make the horse as comfortable as is possible whilst it grows some new feet. I see a use for bute, when the initial attack hits, but prolonged use of NSAID's will have an adverse effect on the regeneration of the lamina and will hinder and prolong the recovery. Pea gravel in the stable at a depth of 6 inches provides an excellent support for the damaged feet and provides tremendous relief. It is also comfortable for horses to lie in for prolonged periods which they will do when suffering from laminitis. Proper trimming and allowing movement to stimulate the feet are preferable to months of box rest on thick beds of shavings, which do little or nothing to relieve pain and encourage a swift recovery"

All I would feed is well soaked hay or haylage, and vits and mins.

I'm always wary of people wanting to glue or stick things on the sole of the foot as this can have a sealing effect exactly where you want the foot to abscess. If it cannot abscess then unless the necrotic tissue can be expelled from elsewhere in the foot, blood poisoning results and thats it.

Good luck.
 
Catj1uk said:
I have previously posted this -

My Welsh Cob went down with laminitis for the first time on 28 May so is starting his fourth week of box rest today. Xrays showed slight rotation in three feet and was very very sore on all feet. Vet/Farrier took all four shoes off and he has been on a deep bed with frog supports on all feet with the Stable Support System (basically thick foam pads) on his front feet too. He is much more comfortable on his hinds, not tucked up anymore and not shifting his weight but still sore on fronts when moving around his stable though. He is on Bute and ACPs with a detox diet, soaked hay, small low calorie feeds etc... He is lying down more though which worries me as although this will give his feet a rest, he must feel that he needs to do it to get some relief.

We x-ray again on Friday and if there is no further rotation, we are going to try glue on shoes so I'll let you know if they help. Good luck with your horse's recovery.

.......................................................................................................

Now as of 4th July -
Dexter had further x-rays two weeks ago which showed more rotation in all feet plus a bit of separation in one foot, we took pads off and shod with glue on Imprints which he has had on for 10 days now. He is noticebly more uncomfortable on these, he is now shifting his feet again and is very tucked up with pain. We have changed his painkiller from Bute to Metacam, still taking ACPs and still on the detox diet. He has shed loads of weight but he is in as much discomfort as he was as the start of this. My Vet is now talking in terms of there is not much more that we can do and head ruling heart, I am inclined to agree. This is week 5 of box rest. Has anyone got any more ideas or experience in getting through this. Are we going to give up too easily? I don't want to make that mistake but I don't want to put him through months of discomfort and solitude if the end result will be the same.

All advice appreciated with thanks...
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I have pm'd you about my laminitis
 
Pale Rider, interesting what you say about pea gravel. Are you meaning to put it in the stable in place of bedding? If so, how do you deal with the mucking out? I can understand you can easily take out the droppings, but the urine would soon get really smelly, wouldn't it? Could a hose be used to wash it out? How much turnout do you advocate, if any? Our latest case of laminitis was dealt with by using my sand turnout area for the horse concerned. He had lami in all four feet and was in a bad way. I was surprised the vet did not suggest sectioning off a small area. He was in a 20m x 35m area. He made a full recovery within days, though he had to stay in the sand for three weeks to be sure.
 
Pale Rider said:
. Pea gravel in the stable at a depth of 6 inches provides an excellent support for the damaged feet and provides tremendous relief. It is also comfortable for horses to lie in for prolonged periods which they will do when suffering from laminitis.
Good luck.
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Why not go the whole way and use loads of ball joints?? that way you could push the horse round the stable he would not have to walk?:rolleyes:

Seriously I would VERY wary about using stones in the way of pea shingle. I mean if your feet hurt that much would you go walking across a drive with pea shingle??? I think not.


I will pm you OP.:)
 
I forgot to say that he was tested for Cushings/EMS at the very start which was negative. However, as well as changing his painkiller yesterday the Vet has put him on Peroglide too 'just in case'.

Thanks for all your messages, all very much appreciated and very helpful too.
 
OP, I have only dealt with two cases of lami. Both were dealt with differently because of different vets. The one above advocated keeping the horse in the sand turnout where he was able to keep moving about, but my own vet instructed that I kept my mare, who came down with it due to Cushings, at Christmas, in a deep shavings bed in the stable. Both were only restricted for three weeks and have made a full recovery. Neither had xrays as there were no depressions around the coronet band to suggest pedal bone rotation. If I were in your situation where my horse was worstening, then I would set a time limit in which I would want to see an improvement, and if that didn't happen, then I would PTS. I think keeping a horse on box rest for prolonged periods, without a good prognosis is devastating to both horse and owner. The longer it goes on then, the longer the owner does not want to give up, because the thought that the last of their horse's life was spent shut up in a stable for months, is quite unbearable. Before they know it, their horse has been shut up for a year or more. Which is a triumph if they recover, a tragedy, if they don't. I am so sorry that you are in this terrible situation, but my understanding is, that most lami cases that pull through, do so relatively quickly. I hope you have a positive outcome for your boy.
 
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Wagtail said:
OP,. If I were in your situation where my horse was worstening, then I would set a time limit in which I would want to see an improvement, and if that didn't happen, then I would PTS. I think keeping a horse on box rest for prolonged periods, without a good prognosis is devastating to both horse and owner. The longer it goes on then, the longer the owner does not want to give up, because the thought that the last of their horse's life was spent shut up in a stable for months, is quite unbearable. Before they know it, their horse has been shut up for a year or more. Which is fine if they recover, a tragedy, if they don't. I am so sorry that you are in this terrible situation, but my understanding is, that most lami cases that pull through, do so relatively quickly. I hope you have a positive outcome for your boy.
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I don't see how any one could set a time limit on something like laminitis. Its down to the horse - owner and vet.

Make the horse go 6 months let say overcome rotation- sinking.

Then things go upward although this is when the abscess start after the attack in the healing stage. Say to horse right you have gone through this amount of pain and are the up now I pull the plug ????

You will get ups and downs in the healing but to pull the plug when the horse is wiling to go on and owner and vet??

As you know my mare is on box rest 1 year nearly I wasn't going to post an update as so many judge posters in here. You told me 6 months ago wagtail to set a time limit on my mare saying 6 months is long enough.

Well I went with my vet and farriers work and advice no one here and:

SHE IS NOW STABLE
no sinking
no abcess
no infection reduced bute

AND NOW ON HAND WALKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO SHE IS NOT ON FULL TIME BOX REST NOW.

So its been a year so what!!!!
horse coped -vet supportive- and farrier and hubby.

So original poster let your horse/ friends horse and vet say when enough is enough time is NOT the essence, if the horse is coping with the recovery if it takes a year or more so beit. As long as its the horse that can cope and not too much crippled pain and penetrated pedal bone.

Your vet and farrier will always do the best for the horse.
Its an expensive journey yes
there are many times you might be at deaths door
its heartbreaking
but stay strong for the horse IT will tell you when enough is enough or the vet.
 
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Leviathan said:
Why not go the whole way and use loads of ball joints?? that way you could push the horse round the stable he would not have to walk?:rolleyes:

Seriously I would VERY wary about using stones in the way of pea shingle. I mean if your feet hurt that much would you go walking across a drive with pea shingle??? I think not.


I will pm you OP.:)
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Horses and humans are different - so are their feet :)
 
I was given a pony with laminitis 3 yrs ago. He was booked in to be PTS becuase his owner was at her wits end. I thought I'd give him one last chance because the ladies on the yard said the owner wasn't being strict enough.
He had rotation in both fronts 11 and 15 degrees. He'd been on 2 months box rest already but was no better but was still bright and alert, if not bored.
I put him straight on box rest at mine and fed soaked hay ONLY. NO carrots/treats/feed of any kind. He was on box rest another month's before he was sound on no painkillers and I kept him in another couple of weeks to be sure, before he was allowed out on mud and concrete.
With regular trims and keeping him away from grass altogether and soaked hay and eventually Fast Fibre, he stayed 100% sound and is still 100% sound and back in full work.

Just wanted to give you some hope...
 
Leviathan said:
I don't see how any one could set a time limit on something like laminitis. Its down to the horse - owner and vet.

Make the horse go 6 months let say overcome rotation- sinking.

Then things go upward although this is when the abscess start after the attack in the healing stage. Say to horse right you have gone through this amount of pain and are the up now I pull the plug ????

You will get ups and downs in the healing but to pull the plug when the horse is wiling to go on and owner and vet??

As you know my mare is on box rest 1 year nearly I wasn't going to post an update as so many judge posters in here. You told me 6 months ago wagtail to set a time limit on my mare saying 6 months is long enough.

Well I went with my vet and farriers work and advice no one here and:

SHE IS NOW STABLE
no sinking
no abcess
no infection reduced bute

AND NOW ON HAND WALKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO SHE IS NOT ON FULL TIME BOX REST NOW.

So its been a year so what!!!!
horse coped -vet supportive- and farrier and hubby.

So original poster let your horse/ friends horse and vet say when enough is enough time is NOT the essence, if the horse is coping with the recovery if it takes a year or more so beit. As long as its the horse that can cope and not too much crippled pain and penetrated pedal bone.

Your vet and farrier will always do the best for the horse.
Its an expensive journey yes
there are many times you might be at deaths door
its heartbreaking
but stay strong for the horse IT will tell you when enough is enough or the vet.
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Then your case has been a triumph. :) I hope she remains sound. Sadly, the case that has always haunted me was at a friend's yard and had been in his box for fouteen months. He was skin and bone through being starved to get more and more weight off him. He never got off box rest as despite doing everything the vet said to do, he never came sound. I don't know how much longer after I saw her that his owner persevered with him, but the last I heard he had been PTS.
 
Wagtail said:
Pale Rider, interesting what you say about pea gravel. Are you meaning to put it in the stable in place of bedding? If so, how do you deal with the mucking out? I can understand you can easily take out the droppings, but the urine would soon get really smelly, wouldn't it? Could a hose be used to wash it out? How much turnout do you advocate, if any? Our latest case of laminitis was dealt with by using my sand turnout area for the horse concerned. He had lami in all four feet and was in a bad way. I was surprised the vet did not suggest sectioning off a small area. He was in a 20m x 35m area. He made a full recovery within days, though he had to stay in the sand for three weeks to be sure.
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I use 10mm pea gravel at a depth of 6 inches, in a 12 x 12 stable. Yep the droppings are easily removed but the urine has to have a good fall on the stable floor and decent drainage. I tend to give it a good hoseing every few days. When you actually see the horse stood on it, especially if it has all 4 feet affected, the toes point down and the heels up. The relief from pain is pretty obvious as they stop the characteristic rocking, and lose the tucked under stance. As for turnout, it depends what you mean but movement encourages the regeneration of the laminae and speeds up the recovery. I have a yard with road planings on outside the stable which the lamanitic has access to as the stable door is left open. Once the horse starts to venture outside I start to give them some gentle short walks, building up as they improve.
 
Leviathan said:
erm I think I know that . But come on stones under an already sore foot madness.

Shaving the way to go full stop.
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You don't understand
shakehead.gif


Pea gravel has been used as a comfortable, yielding but supportive surface for sore hooves for many years.

The greater advantage is that the horse can 'burrow' into it and create the most comfortable angle for their hooves.

Think of it as a horsey bean bag.

My own opinion is that I would prefer to use it as a turnout surface rather than a bedding though.

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/feet.html
peagravel.jpg


I'm surprised you have never heard of it.
 
Pale Rider said:
I use 10mm pea gravel at a depth of 6 inches, in a 12 x 12 stable. Yep the droppings are easily removed but the urine has to have a good fall on the stable floor and decent drainage. I tend to give it a good hoseing every few days. When you actually see the horse stood on it, especially if it has all 4 feet affected, the toes point down and the heels up. The relief from pain is pretty obvious as they stop the characteristic rocking, and lose the tucked under stance. As for turnout, it depends what you mean but movement encourages the regeneration of the laminae and speeds up the recovery. I have a yard with road planings on outside the stable which the lamanitic has access to as the stable door is left open. Once the horse starts to venture outside I start to give them some gentle short walks, building up as they improve.
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That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
 
My opinions on what Leviathan, says and has done with her horse have been posted on other threads and are known to forum members, who have read them. I don't think this thread is the place to start argueing with her now.

All I will say is that I have looked at the treatments and proceedures she and her vets and farriers have carried out on the horse she talks of and I do not consider it to have been a success and honestly belive that the horse has recovered, as far as it has, in spite of what has been done not as a result of it.
13 or 14 months in a box is not on in my opinion, when things could have been turned around so much quicker.
 
Pale Rider said:
My opinions on what Leviathan, says and has done with her horse have been posted on other threads and are known to forum members, who have read them. I don't think this thread is the place to start argueing with her now.

All I will say is that I have looked at the treatments and proceedures she and her vets and farriers have carried out on the horse she talks of and I do not consider it to have been a success and honestly belive that the horse has recovered, as far as it has, in spite of what has been done not as a result of it.
13 or 14 months in a box is not on in my opinion, when things could have been turned around so much quicker.
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Yes you have commented before saying my care of my horse is poor :mad: my vets advice has been poor:mad: and to be wary of my advice :mad:.

Well you are not the expert you think you are, I do not appreciate your comments saying what I have done is wrong and poor well you have not gone through my journey. And from what i have read in pm's I am not alone . I don't care what you think of me or my mare you are a nobody just a name on here with your opinion for the little its worth .



You need to use a spell checker Pale rider.

box rest 11 months Its not on???? well that is your opinion for what its worth .

NO one asked you to publicly say I was wrong in my care or the 11 months she has been in.


The horse is happy my vet is happy I am so that's all that matters not your blinkered opinion.

loads of others on H&H and had horses in that long . I will never have a bare footer on my horses again as they have been awful that's IMO


And for what its worth you know nothing of ALL the procedures My vet farrier and me used I only wrote little of what we did as I knew judgmental people like you would comment. :mad:

and its recovered so far AS A RESULT OF WHAT WE HAVE DONE PERIOD. Now leave me alone .
 
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Leviathan, have the good grace not to do this on a thread where someone has such concerns for their horse. Start another thread if you want, but not here, please. :)
 
Oberon said:
You don't understand
shakehead.gif


Pea gravel has been used as a comfortable, yielding but supportive surface for sore hooves for many years.

The greater advantage is that the horse can 'burrow' into it and create the most comfortable angle for their hooves.

Think of it as a horsey bean bag.

My own opinion is that I would prefer to use it as a turnout surface rather than a bedding though.

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/feet.html
peagravel.jpg


I'm surprised you have never heard of it.
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That looks similar to our indoor school which I am walking her in now.
Thanx Oberon at least someone on here is not so judgmental as others are and quick to point the finger at anyone who does not agree:)
 
Pale Rider said:
Leviathan, have the good grace not to do this on a thread where someone has such concerns for their horse. Start another thread if you want, but not here, please. :)
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I will not start a thread I have finished with you and your blinkers views. Now be a good boy and run along.
Just do me the favour and do NOT bring up Any neg thing about my procedures with my mare or it will be down on record.

I will share my journey with OP and any other laminitic horse owner who wishes to read and ask me advice which they can take or leave. Just keep it to yourself on what you think of my care and please do not publicly put it in a forum.
 
Leviathan said:
I will not start a thread I have finished with you and your blinkers views. Now be a good boy and run along.
Just do me the favour and do NOT bring up Any neg thing about my procedures with my mare or it will be down on record.

I will share my journey with OP and any other laminitic horse owner who wishes to read and ask me advice which they can take or leave. Just keep it to yourself on what you think of my care and please do not publicly put it in a forum.
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TBF Leviathan - you did start this bunfight by ridiculing Pale Rider's advice on using pea gravel :(.
 
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