Calling all owners of eventers with professionals? What do you do about prize money?

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Chick1989

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I have two eventer with two different riders, one is regularly being placed at novice, the other is advanced with regular intermediate placings and hopefully advanced placings to come now she has moved yards.*

**At one point, I was receiving all the winnings they made which as many eventers know, especially those who pay for them to be ridden professionally barely covers an outing, yet alone anything else. The novice horses rider now wants all the prize money for herself. We had a deal and contract when we brought him for her (he wasn't cheap) that he was on no basic livery, we just paid all costs, entries, shoes, petrol , lessons etc AND she owns 25% of him. He has proved to be fab and an asset to her career achieving qualifications to both ByEH finals and will progress to intermediate as a 6year old. This change in feeling comes after the advanced horse, who was on full livery moved to another yard, for many reasons.*

Should we have a share of prize money? 50/50? Should she be taking all? Should we have it all? Should she be taking all up to £100 then a 50/50 share? Should we split it ownership wise and receive 75/25? He has earnt £240 in 5 weeks!*
 
Is he ever going to be sold? Ie. is she ever going to realise that 25%? With the advanced horse leaving her yard maybe she feels it's time she earnt something out of this horse, he's not actually making her any money, and it sounds like his work is done with making her reputation, so I can see why she has asked for this. It's up to you of course. How do you think she will feel if you say no? Will the relationship deteriorate? Will she say she no longer wants the ride without some form of remuneration?
 
As you are both paying for the horse (you comp fees and rider keep) Id say 50/50 would be fair.

With my owners if the owner is paying for everything they keep any prize money as I know it all gets put on comp fees any way.

Well done this season sounds like yours are going very well!
 
My friend has a horse with a pro rider, she pays livery at £150 per week plus all costs on top and luckily horse is doing ok (just had first novice run and been placed every timeout) they split the prize money 50/50 which seems fair to me?
I guess the problem arises when you get into the grey area of 'theorectical' value, IMO better to pay, be paid and everyone know where they stand. In which case 50/50 on prize money would be fair.
 
I looked into this a short while ago as Mini TX had a bit of a confidence crisis over her eventing. I talked to one professional who I know well, and I know would do a good job and I would have been paying for competition livery, my share of diesel on the lorry, BE entries, fees for training, all her rugs etc. The rider would have kept all rossettes and winnings in kind, but any money would be split 50/50 with me as the owner of the horse. I would add that the horse would eventually be sold if this was the case, and the rider would not be getting any of its value.

Thankfully this is not going to happen. However, I would say that I would certainly talk to the individual in question over this and try not to let the relationship deteriorate, if things are going well.
 
"Will she say she no longer wants the ride without some form of remuneration?" She couldn't loose a ride on a horse like him, he is a serious star and wouldn't throw the ride away. The relationship has gone down hill after moving my advanced horse but that's another story and complicates this other horse even more!

I was thinking about selling him at the end of this season as I cant really afford to run two at intermediate and above. I am 21 and run a business to pay for the both horses so I am not a loaded owner with money to burn! He has a very good record so far this season and will be out of novice in no time achieving another DC today!

I cant carry the cost of everything and receive nothing back..... that's not sensible surely? He doesn't cost her anything except time effectively. Would setting it to an amount be more fair? Anything over £80 we go 50/50. This is therefore only intermediate or 1* classes and above where the money will be split as most novices are £69 first prize!

Its a tricky one and I want it to be fair for both parties!
 
We have had event horses with pro riders. One wanted a rider fee or half prize money . Another it was just a rider fee and the other wanted no rider fee but half the prize money.
 
Hi,

I have to admit I normally lurk in here, apologies but this thread got me interested as I am in a similar scenario with you Chick1989 and we have worked something out that keeps us all happy! (I also was a rider in my day so can really see it from both angles!)

I have a lovely Grade A with an up and coming young rider as well as a young 5yo stallion who I bought for the rider as an unbroken raw 3yo.

My deal is akin to yours however I keep both my horses with the rider- he does a sterling job and produced the Grade A from a quirky novice (she was and still is a highly strung chestnut mare, got too love them eh) and he deserves the horse power as like many doesn't have the financial backing or a string of Nation Cup horses! The stallion nonetheless is also done on a 75% /25% final sales profit. He sourced and produced him and I bought him.

For the mare I pay livery @ £120per week plus I pay all bills, shows, diesel costs for the wagon etc... And I receive 50/50 of the prize money. This is pretty benchmark by all accounts although I know I am lucky the livery isn't £150 plus but I’m based in Northern part of the world!

For the stallion I invested in him as a 3yo and my rider has broken and produced him to be the star he is today (just finishing off his fox double clears and placed second rounds NC) I don't pay ANY livery not even basic £25pw box rent but I do pay shows, shoes, etc... Deal is he keeps all the prize money under £200 per month to pay for his livery costs per month and as incentive for him to keep producing such good results out of him! (Obviously if he went onto bigger and better things and the prize money was well over £200per month then we split the difference over £200 50/50 so if he wins £450 for example I will take £75) If we mutually decided to sell or get an offer too silly to turn down then he will get 25% of the final cost and I will take 75%.

At the end of the day if I wanted this horse to go to someone else then I would be looking at forking out another £120-150 a week. So it’s false logic to get to voracious about prize money as I theoretically bank the best part of £100pw by not paying keep costs. Hay is so expensive it has become so dear to keep horses.

Has your rider produced this horse her self? That is a pretty major part of the horse’s success perhaps? Sounds like she has done a great job already getting one to advanced level. Horses don’t get there by themselves, shame you felt you had to move one perhaps that’s where the relationship is the problem? However, it is an owners prerogative to chose the rider for their horse.

You need to way up the fact as the rider sounds like is doing a very good job and as really you are a 'silent' owner in the 6yo (like me as you don't pay running costs) then the rider is going to have to pay for his feed/hay/straw/rent/water bills etc somehow, it’s their job and they need to pay the bills! It’s also an incentive to enhance his potential future sale price by producing him correctly and gaining the best results which is in our (as an owner) best interests. I do have the intention of eventually selling but this is also a mutual decision and will be made when the time is right for both of them. Have you specific plans for the younger horse before you sell it?
I will also be significantly better off when we decide this and will reinvest in my rider. If my boy gets on the equine pathway this year which is our aim his price should increase. What is the point for my rider otherwise if not earning anything yes the stallion is a great asset in his yard but he is very skilled at producing young horses so I know will do it again with another one…

Best of luck! Sounds like you have lovely horses!

Jazz.
 
a cup of coffee, and thrash it out politely. eventing winnings are diddly squat til advanced. (but the increase in horse value can be huge) so you have to work out what will be in your best interests long term. Good luck. hope your horses keep performing.
 
Showjumpstar makes some very fair points in her post. If I were you I'd be asking myself why I have the horses - to have fun or to make money. In my case it's the former. I wouldn't object to making a bit of money as well but, as an eventer, that will come (if at all) when the horse is sold on rather than from prize money.

Chick1989 said:
I cant carry the cost of everything and receive nothing back..... that's not sensible surely? He doesn't cost her anything except time effectively. Would setting it to an amount be more fair?
Click to expand...

I think you must remember that time is money if working with horses is her job rather than a hobby.

Hope you can get it sorted to your mutual satisfaction :).
 
What you have to realise is although you paid "a lot" of money for the horse (who in the wrong hands could be incredibly tricky as I'm sure you are aware!) your rider, who you have not remained loyal to, has increased the value of this horse incredibly!

To say this horse has made her career is a complete fabrication of the truth as I think her Badminton ride mainly contributed to that as well as her tremendous riding ability, so perhaps a re-think of your ridiculous and almost slanderous ideas may be in order!

I think at least a 50/50 split of prize money is fair, although you have to take into account the amount it has cost your rider to feed/bed/produce the horse from a 3yo till now so probably more sensible of you to relinquish the prize money!, my owners are very generous and often give me the full amount, because they appreciate all the hard work I put in to producing their horses! I am lucky to have a team of genuine, loyal and honest owners.

Anyone thinking there is money to be made from being an owner of an event horse is incredibly dillusional and clearly doesn't have much idea of the real world!
 
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