Calling resident colour experts!

Flash_28 said:
Thats where it comes in! :) Thank you. Once I have mastered the TB side I need to move onto the ISH side of things! On the TBs I have gotten back to about 1880! Mental!
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lol atm im looking at the 1700's!! I thought id see if any of the foundation stallions are listed
the Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Arabian or the Byerly Turk... still looking lmao
 
Foxymumma said:
lol atm im looking at the 1700's!! I thought id see if any of the foundation stallions are listed
the Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Arabian or the Byerly Turk... still looking lmao
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Wow! Thats miles back! I had to give up before then or I don't think I would get any sleep or any work done! ha ha Let us know what you find!
 
Flash_28 said:
Your friend also has a spotty horse? Would be interesting to hear back. Waiting to see what Foxymumma finds in her mares pedigree :)

Little Foaly isn't full TB, he is an ISH. Dad was Cruisings Ambassador (ISH) and mum was full TB and bred to race. As he isn't full TB I am just in awe that Foaly has all of a sudden developed these spots after almost a century from just one side of the family!
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Spotty foal is out of a pure TB mare by a TBXID stallion!

She was born liver chestnut and started greying out in huge spots (mother is grey!). Be interesting to see how she looks now!
 
Flash_28 said:
Wow! Thats miles back! I had to give up before then or I don't think I would get any sleep or any work done! ha ha Let us know what you find!
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Haha! I stayed up till 2am looking through because I was too consumed in reading up lmao, have you found anything new?

angrovestud said:
http://www.angrovestud.com/coloured-thoroughbred-breeders-association.html
I have posted this so you can take advantage of the 10 years of study I have been doing it might help and there are some great photos of pure TBs with colour in England I now go to agri colleges to give talks on coloured Tbs
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Oh wow! thanks so much, thats been really interesting reading! Your horses are stunning!!

Harper_Gal said:
Spotty foal is out of a pure TB mare by a TBXID stallion!

She was born liver chestnut and started greying out in huge spots (mother is grey!). Be interesting to see how she looks now!
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Oooh looks like are uncovering all these random coloured ISH's!! lol
 
Harper_Gal said:
Spotty foal is out of a pure TB mare by a TBXID stallion!

She was born liver chestnut and started greying out in huge spots (mother is grey!). Be interesting to see how she looks now!
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Sorry Harper! Don't know how but I totally missed your post and only just spotted it now! So 2 days ago I didn't think anything of Foaly's spots and just dismissed them and now I know of 2 others! It would be great if we could see what the filly looks like now! Just so interested in all of it!
 
Foxymumma said:
Haha! I stayed up till 2am looking through because I was too consumed in reading up lmao, have you found anything new?
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I did stay up until 1am the other night just looking back into it all. But not been able to have a look since as I have had to some document for work. Eurgh! Work always gets in the way! Next thing I will be doing though is writing it all down properly so I can read it all a bit clearer! ha ha

Have you found anything else in your mare's pedigree?
 
Thank you we are exceptionally lucky to own Ricco and some stunning mares the combination of the two just works. I am so glad you enjoyed the page on our site we have developed quiet a following to it as we had 1526 visits to our web site this month from people world wide to see the different aspects of engineering a colour gene in to a TB
also the medley of white modifing genes in the TB.
 
Flash_28 said:
Sorry Harper! Don't know how but I totally missed your post and only just spotted it now! So 2 days ago I didn't think anything of Foaly's spots and just dismissed them and now I know of 2 others! It would be great if we could see what the filly looks like now! Just so interested in all of it!
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Could be an interesting one, as I'm not her owner's favourite person anymore... but I can see what I can do!
 
Harper_Gal said:
Could be an interesting one, as I'm not her owner's favourite person anymore... but I can see what I can do!
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Oh dear! In that case it's fine as don't want to cause you any hassle. I just wanted to be nosey! :) Foaly can be the boring spotty one out of him and Foxymumma's mare! Maybe next year he will have developed more spots when he sheds his winter coat :)

Angrove I am still yet to have been able to have a proper look at your page but have skemmed through. I promise I will look and read properly when I get a moment! The whole genetics thing has really grabbed me now!
 
charlottecreamswhitepatch.jpg

this is a daughter of Ricco out of a grey arab mare who did not seem to be a splash white carrier Ricco carriers splash, I believe now that splash changes or modifies other colour coat pattens you only need to see a Tovero to know what splash can do and horse like Storm cat are massive splash carriers the more we breed these horse together the more colour you will begin to see.
your horse is really nice Foxymumma its great to see photos of such a highly coloured horse! and its such a fasinating subject, the bay colt Flash_28 is phenotypical of our ex mare what a blaze she did not grey out but had the roaning in her coat also and no birdcatcher ticking so the gene resonsable was not rabicano I suspect she was a dominant white but minimally expressed, also she had brown on both her shoulders near her withers this I think could well have been the hidden brindle gene at a very low dose as our boy is bred along the same sire line it seems a possiblity.
 
Sorry getting a little confuzzled. So you believe that Foaly will remain a random roany colour? I haven't had him for too long and when he 1st turned up he was a bay with a little roaning on his bum and he is now this random colour. In the flesh he doesn't appear to be as grey and light as he is on the photos. He looks more bay than grey which is why his spots show up a bit better. He has 3 white spots and 1 ginger spot on his shoulder near the wither.

Mum is a bay or dark bay pure TB and dad is Cruisings Ambassador who is a grey ISH.

To show his change in colour since May. He is still changing colour on his back as his coat hasn't quite recovered from where he had lice.
When he turned up
FoalysArrival003.jpg

About week and half ago
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I dont think hes turning grey as he would more than likey have a greying face and head which he appears not to have Tosca our mare was roany and we have girls here with roany white hairs in there coats he may have inherited the grey gene but for £17 I would test him if he comes back negative you got your self something competley different.do you have some head shots of him? was he a weanling in the photo? sorry whats mums name please?
 
On his face when he turned up he was bay and no white apart from his marking. The star has actually gotten smaller and more of an odd shape now he is in a summer coat. Also now that he is in the summer coat he has developed white hairs around his eyes and on his muzzle. The white around his eyes does not show up in the photos though and his nose looks not as white as in reality. I will try to get some close ups at the weekend if needed.

In this one you can see a few white bits around his marking and then just about see the white hairs on his muzzle.
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Only managed to get a close up as his was being very friendly to the camera!
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In this one you can see how his ears appear to be quite grey. He doesn't like me brushing them so they are still a little furry.
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Will PM you with further info.
 
As I was looking through the photos I noticed just how bay he looked in this one! This is more what he looks like in the flesh as he is more bay but in others he looks more grey.

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He is now 16 months old and the 1st photo was of him arriving in early May when he was turned a year old. I do not think he was taken from his mother until he was leaving Ireland to come to me as he was totally unhandled and scared of people. He is a rescue so I don't know too much about how he was kept as I don't know. I am sure of his parentage though as it is all in his passport and he is registered with the IHB and most importantly the passport matches the pony! :) I was a bit wary to begin with!
 
very interesting that his bottom lip is pink skinned this is very like his sire who by the looks of the photos display a bottom heavy blaze sliding off his nose turns pink and goes under his jaw he also looks to have at least 3 white socks even though the grey has changed things.
this is a colt we bred who is a great grandson of Sadlers wells his hum is by Oscar and is a splash carrier or dominant white it show you how the white can go off the nose.
split-head2.jpg

this is tancred arms
tancredarmswhitespots.jpg

she has white roaning in her coat and she has white spots she is a bay with no white blaze no white legs no white feet but she is carring white modifing genes i will know more next year when she foals but i have it on good authority from US TB colour breeders she is likey to throw her colour

the colt above when he was a week old

P1010023-1.jpg
 
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Hi Harper_ gal yes thats a big possibility but if hes tested not to be grey I am suggesting some possibilites time will tell.
 
Hello again! :)

Rose gray I have never even heard of before! Oh dear! I can see me getting terribly confused!

Angrove if I were to have him tested for colour what would actually need doing to test him?
 
angrovestud said:
very interesting that his bottom lip is pink skinned this is very like his sire who by the looks of the photos display a bottom heavy blaze sliding off his nose turns pink and goes under his jaw he also looks to have at least 3 white socks even though the grey has changed things.
this is a colt we bred who is a great grandson of Sadlers wells his hum is by Oscar and is a splash carrier or dominant white it show you how the white can go off the nose.
split-head2.jpg

this is tancred arms
tancredarmswhitespots.jpg

she has white roaning in her coat and she has white spots she is a bay with no white blaze no white legs no white feet but she is carring white modifing genes i will know more next year when she foals but i have it on good authority from US TB colour breeders she is likey to throw her colour

the colt above when he was a week old

P1010023-1.jpg
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I really like your colt! Such a sweet face!

Also you mention Sadlers Wells. Foaly has that in his pedigree. He is great grandsire to Foaly on his dam's side. Don't know if that helps at all!

He does have 3 white socks, 2 black and white stripey hooves, 1 white and 1 black. You were mentioned a white splash gene, even if he were found to be a rose grey would he still have this present or would it just be part of him being grey? Also in the middle of his tail he does have white hairs.
 
Hi Flash_28 Harpers_ Girl
what you have to remember is that grey is a modifing gene so if he is grey, it would not change what he is underneath his lips are pink his hoof is white, what I mean is the grey would go greyer but it would not mean he was not splash white it seems to have a dosage effect so you can be dipped a little 2 back white socks or a little more another good indicator if splash is when the very end of the dock there is white on an otherwise black/brown/chestnut tail we have seen this in most of our stock it is not part of the spectrum of vertical colour of the Tobiano. think of splash has horizontal rising upward.
 
angrovestud said:
Hi Flash_28 Harpers_ Girl
what you have to remember is that grey is a modifing gene so if he is grey, it would not change what he is underneath his lips are pink his hoof is white, what I mean is the grey would go greyer but it would not mean he was not splash white it seems to have a dosage effect so you can be dipped a little 2 back white socks or a little more another good indicator if splash is when the very end of the dock there is white on an otherwise black/brown/chestnut tail we have seen this in most of our stock it is not part of the spectrum of vertical colour of the Tobiano. think of splash has horizontal rising upward.
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Foaly does have white at the very end of his dock right in the middle of his tail while the rest of his tail looks black or a very dark grey. I think I am understanding the splash correctly. I do think I should go away and read up on all of this, esp colour testing. I don't think I can wait to see what colour he will turn out to be! ha ha :)
 
That did not suprise me how cool is your horse! all you need to do is contact Dan at Animal Genetics hes really nice and so helpful send 20/30 pulled mane or tail hairs in a bag and it cost £17 to test they must be pulled not cut, as they need the folical to extract the DNA.
good luck please post back when hes tested I would love to know my money is hes not grey.
 
angrovestud said:
That did not suprise me how cool is your horse! all you need to do is contact Dan at Animal Genetics hes really nice and so helpful send 20/30 pulled mane or tail hairs in a bag and it cost £17 to test they must be pulled not cut, as they need the folical to extract the DNA.
good luck please post back when hes tested I would love to know my money is hes not grey.
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He is a very surprising little guy! He is keeping everyone guessing! I would imagine the white in his tail will grow down and show up more as his tail grows. He does still have a little foal tail bless him :)

I will def have a look into it as I need to send off his passport to register his name soon and would like to have the right colour in there for him as he def isn't bay! I did see a racehorse at Ascot who was a very similar colour to Foaly but all they had in the racecard was that he was grey or grey roan! I was like well that doesn't help me deciding on what colour Foaly should be!

I will def let you know if I decide to go ahead with the colour testing and the then said results. I am currently pulling his mane very slowly anyway!
 
Harper_Gal said:
Have had a word with Mother, who is friends with Spotty Foal's Owner, she's currently liver chestnut roan with huge white spots (at 3.5 years old!)!!

Obviously greying out, but doing so in style!
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The roany/spotty TB types now how to do it well! :p I did have a look round Foaly last night and noticed a few more spots on him, much smaller though. So don't know if I have just missed them before but I thought that the spots only developed at the shedding of winter coat. Hmmmmm strange little foal! x
 
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