Calling resident colour experts!

Hi again, I was doing some genetics research yesterday as ive been finding all this colour genetics and breeding genetics all facinating! some of it is a bit indepth for me :confused: so i was trying to find more websites with it in more laymens terms lol :o im finding the grey gene interesting reading! :D

Funny you should say that about foaly flash... I noticed more markings on my girl yesterday too! I think shes going to grey out to fleabitten grey! shes showing some fleabitten markings on her face where shes lightening out the fastest! I shall miss her pretty markings :( but shall have to like it or lump it lol!

Whilst researching yesterday I was a bit shocked to read about how it is that grey horses tend to end up with melanomas, I knew that greys were particularly prone but didnt realise it was because of them absorbing the colour from their coats into their gut and intestines! :eek: more reasearch is gonna be needed me thinks!

http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/colors/gray.html
 
I didn't realise that it was because greys absorb the colour from their coat into their gut. I was thinking of having Foaly tested for the gray gene and see if he is GG or Gg as I did read that 70-80% of gray (GG) horses by the age of 15 have melanomas. :( Think research on preventing them is required! I thought it was to do with UV light and their pink bits of skin. Thought a fly rug would help but not so sure now
 
Unfortunately it appears from an Australian study that all greys have Melanomas they are just not all visible, many are internal. The de-pigmentation does not affect their skin, but is direct from their hair being stripped of it's pigment.
 
So would something like buying a flu rug to keep off the UV rays help with a gray? Or would it not make any difference as all grays have melanomas but they just aren't visible?
 
Flash_28 said:
The roany/spotty TB types now how to do it well! :p I did have a look round Foaly last night and noticed a few more spots on him, much smaller though. So don't know if I have just missed them before but I thought that the spots only developed at the shedding of winter coat. Hmmmmm strange little foal! x
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Mia had quite small spots at first, but apparently now looks like the photo at the start of this thread!!

Fascinating stuff!!
 
Flash_28 said:
So would something like buying a flu rug to keep off the UV rays help with a gray? Or would it not make any difference as all grays have melanomas but they just aren't visible?
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After the research ive done it seems it has nothing to do with uva rays nor skin cancer its all due to the pigment grains in the gut/intestines, seems all greys have melanomas inside where they arent seen its only some that show them externally :eek: :( Ive got my vet out thursday so im going to find out if there is anything that can prevent this?! surely there must be something that can help flush the pigment through?
 
wow, this is really interesting. I have an ish out of a clover hill x king of diamonds mare by a darco stallion. He has been fun to watch change colour. He was chestnut to start then liver chestnut. He has now got darker but with a red tint. He now has several big white splodges, a white tail and funny white hoops like the white splotches but with dark centres. Its good fun
 
milo'n'molly said:
wow, this is really interesting. I have an ish out of a clover hill x king of diamonds mare by a darco stallion. He has been fun to watch change colour. He was chestnut to start then liver chestnut. He has now got darker but with a red tint. He now has several big white splodges, a white tail and funny white hoops like the white splotches but with dark centres. Its good fun
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ooooo! wow, we must see piccys! :D does he have terarch and birdcatcher in his lines?
 
Okay, so I have been reading this thread. Your horses seem to be roany/rose grey/greying out etc. I had an arab colt from a foal (sold him a year or two ago). His dam was a bay arab and dad was a rose grey arab. He was born chestnut and started greying out and has kind of stopped at a rose grey colour. I havn't got many pictures on this laptop of him but he had white spots on him. Last time I saw him his face was just starting to get flea bitten (age 4-5yo). So are these patches not just something that greys or the grey gene carry? Will try and attach a pic you can see a couple. Wish I could get on old pc but in parts at mo.
 
Shakira38 said:
Okay, so I have been reading this thread. Your horses seem to be roany/rose grey/greying out etc. I had an arab colt from a foal (sold him a year or two ago). His dam was a bay arab and dad was a rose grey arab. He was born chestnut and started greying out and has kind of stopped at a rose grey colour. I havn't got many pictures on this laptop of him but he had white spots on him. Last time I saw him his face was just starting to get flea bitten (age 4-5yo). So are these patches not just something that greys or the grey gene carry? Will try and attach a pic you can see a couple. Wish I could get on old pc but in parts at mo.
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I keep asking myself this same question but in 21years of owning and riding horses... ive never seen another horse grey out in this way... other horses that ive seen have consistently greyed out with each coat moult all over their body and not in patches... :confused:

would love to see your piccys too
 
Harper_gal thank you for getting back with the information. I can't believe this is another spotty found and I had never even heard of or seen one before! Go the spotties!

Foxymumma it will be interesting to hear what your vet says about the dipigmentation and to help prevent it if you can. Poor little Foaly doesn't want to be grey anymore! Also I have yet to meet a grey with a melanoma either so not sure if they have just been lucky or not. As reading all this stuff about most of the greys having it is freaking me out. Anyway I can make Foaly bay again?! ha ha

Milo 'n' Molly pictures would be great of your little one :) Lets see all these weird coloured spotty horses!

Shakira I also thought that it could just be the way that horses grey out but again until the start of this thread I have never seen another spotty horse. I have traced Foaly back and he does have Tetrarch in his bloodlines so I am just assuming that is the reason for his white splodges. Before I thought it was just because he couldn't make up his mind as there are patches of bay and patches of dark grey and then these white spots and a ginger one! Guess I will just have to wait and see what happens over the years but I'm impatient already!
 
Flash_28 said:
Harper_gal thank you for getting back with the information. I can't believe this is another spotty found and I had never even heard of or seen one before! Go the spotties!

Foxymumma it will be interesting to hear what your vet says about the dipigmentation and to help prevent it if you can. Poor little Foaly doesn't want to be grey anymore! Also I have yet to meet a grey with a melanoma either so not sure if they have just been lucky or not. As reading all this stuff about most of the greys having it is freaking me out. Anyway I can make Foaly bay again?! ha ha

Milo 'n' Molly pictures would be great of your little one :) Lets see all these weird coloured spotty horses!

Shakira I also thought that it could just be the way that horses grey out but again until the start of this thread I have never seen another spotty horse. I have traced Foaly back and he does have Tetrarch in his bloodlines so I am just assuming that is the reason for his white splodges. Before I thought it was just because he couldn't make up his mind as there are patches of bay and patches of dark grey and then these white spots and a ginger one! Guess I will just have to wait and see what happens over the years but I'm impatient already!
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On the subject of 'SPOTTIES' - I don't know if this is allowed but..... I have just completed the Appaloosa Calendar for 2011 which has been running for several years. I took it over in July as the people creating it previously had busier lives and non of us wanted it to cease.

There is usually a competition run for photos from 'appy' people to be submitted and then be judged but as there was not much time between July and now I just got my head round it and being an ex-photographer myself (and working for a printing company) managed to find some lovely full colour photos of appys and put something together.
I also announced it on the BAPS forum and lots of lovely people were very enthusiastic and submitted their photos - so there is a mix of good quality 'owners' pics and some professional.

Size of calendar is A3 and it comes with a board-backed envelope so it doesn't get bent in the post. Go to www.aphcuk.org and then to 'Appy Bay Sales' the calendar is at the top and if you click on the photo all the details are there. All profits are going towards promoting the appaloosa horse via the two breed societies and any other suggestions that come in will be considered. Thank you for reading. :) ;)
 
Flash_28 said:
I didn't realise that it was because greys absorb the colour from their coat into their gut. I was thinking of having Foaly tested for the gray gene and see if he is GG or Gg as I did read that 70-80% of gray (GG) horses by the age of 15 have melanomas. :( Think research on preventing them is required! I thought it was to do with UV light and their pink bits of skin. Thought a fly rug would help but not so sure now
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I would say your boy is a greying bay, those whiter spots are quite common in greying youngsters, for instance, every single one I have had has had them. If he was actually carrying the Tetrach gene, the spots would be much more defined - sorry! The fact that his head shows no sign of greying (yet!) is not an indicator that he is not grey - Sirena's head was the last thing to grey out!

I can absolutely tell you that he is Gg as only one of his parents was grey, grey is a dominant gene and cannot hide, only a grey horse can pass on the grey gene.

Melanomas are a fact of life with greys but has never ever put me off and I have four of them! My oldest one (a chestnut at birth) is 31 next May:D Most greys actually have black skin and only have pink skin where the coat is actually white, blazes, socks etc so they do not suffer from sunburn any more than any other colour.

Have fun watching his colour changes, I know I have with my greying babies :D
 
Well... Im gonna have to upload my new updated pics of my mare as she is changing so fast! I think shes is going to be more or less white grey before the end of this year, shes turning that fast! It seems her winter coat is coming though and its very very light compared to what her summer coat is, I couldnt believe the difference just yesterday when I groomed her! :eek:

SirenaXVI said:
Foxymamma your mare is stunning and for sure carries the Tetrach gene!
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Ah thank you! :D
 
SirenaXVI said:
I would say your boy is a greying bay, those whiter spots are quite common in greying youngsters, for instance, every single one I have had has had them. If he was actually carrying the Tetrach gene, the spots would be much more defined - sorry! The fact that his head shows no sign of greying (yet!) is not an indicator that he is not grey - Sirena's head was the last thing to grey out!

I can absolutely tell you that he is Gg as only one of his parents was grey, grey is a dominant gene and cannot hide, only a grey horse can pass on the grey gene.

Melanomas are a fact of life with greys but has never ever put me off and I have four of them! My oldest one (a chestnut at birth) is 31 next May:D Most greys actually have black skin and only have pink skin where the coat is actually white, blazes, socks etc so they do not suffer from sunburn any more than any other colour.

Have fun watching his colour changes, I know I have with my greying babies :D
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Thanks for your interest in Foaly Sirena.

The boy is proper confusing believe me! In his pictures he does come out as very grey but when you see him in reality he appears far more bay. His neck, head and bum look a dark bay. This is why others and I have been confused by his colour as he has blocks of colour! Like the grey ears, legs and chest but then bay head, neck and bum. Only his tummy really is roany at the moment. As he appears far more bay in reality his little spots do show up very easily. In the photos it just looks like dust on the camera. I've had a look through his pedigree and Tetrarch does show up on both sides. So far I have had many different opinions on what colour he will end up as and same with the spots. I'm just kinda confused with what colour I should be putting on the passport!
 
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