Calmer for show... A different strategy. And a phosphorous question

[Queenbee]

Long story short, after a couple of people mentioning that magnesium calmers can in some cases make a horses behaviour worse, I started to read up on this. I'm going with the calcium (yep you read it right) approach.

Basic theory is that magnesium provides the energy for the calcium to be able to turn nerve cells on and off. If there is not enough energy to do this, the brain wint function and process properly, however, excessive magnesium whilst sending some horses to sleep or generally calming them, in some cases ten excess magnesium causes impaired and erratic response to stimuli and brain function.

The additional bit I've read is that of course if said neddy doesn't have enough calcium in his body at a high level to control the 'on off switch' of these nerve cells in the brain then magnesium or no magnesium they are not going to function properly and enable the horse to process things.

This is the basis for equifeasts theory, initial trials were based on a magnesium and calcium calmer with good effect, but they have seen even better trial results with just calcium. So I'm going out on Monday to get me some of this stuff if I can find it locally. If not I need to knock off the magnesium and feed Ben additional calcium and obviously phosphorus as I will be using a 'loading rate' now, we have some limestone flour in our feed merchants, but then I'm clueless as to what to feed for phosphorous, any suggestions? If not, any suggestions on a calcium supplement that contains phosphorus already?

Thanks all

 

[Queenbee]

If I don't go down the calcium route I will probably go for the so kalm past (tryptophan based).

 

[Alyth]

I guess you are getting a nice flush of lovely green spring grass? That = lots of sugar = lots of energy!! Perhaps look at present diet before adding extras??

 

[Tnavas]

Be careful going down the calcium route as you can cause these

A rather large lump of Calcium removed from inside a horse.

Still feed the Magnesium but also feed some Calcium too - they work hand in hand

 

[lucylockett]

Sorry to criticise your research but maybe read up on independent trials rather than ones done by the people that produce the calmers. Fact is that:
Magnesium - no evidence it has any calming effect at all. Also Magnesium supplementation can interfere with calcium balance and lead to an increased risk of orthopaedic problems.
Calcium- as above. In a study when blood levels of calcium were reduced it showed no adverse changes to behaviour. Good for horn and hoof crowth however!!!
Tryptophan- can actually cause excitement in some cases. Higher doses can also lower the red blood cell count.

Best thing to do - look at your feeding, exercise and turnout regimes. I'd also be feeding a good quality balanced electrolyte. Funny enough that should contain mag, calcium, sodium, chloride, potassium. That way if your horse is likely to be deficient this will replace what's required.

 

[Auslander]

Maybe get a forage analysis done before starting to play around with mineral balance. I see what you're trying to achieve, but without knowing what, if anything, is lacking in his diet, you're spending money on something that's going to go straight through him

 

[Countrychic]

Personally I would just buy some CC&C. They offer such a good after sales service. Mine took some tweaking to get 100% and they were fantastic.
Lucy lockett, regardless of what studies say I would recommend anyone with a difficult horse gives it a try. In the grand scheme of things what's £50 compared to what we spend on our horses? I was the biggest calmer sceptic but I was at the end of my tether with one of my horses. We were 2 years on and she couldn't get round a 70cm course within 2 months of being on CC&C she won her first 80 and is about to start BN.
I'm not employed by them (I should be though!) but I'm just really grateful for the change in my horse and think it's worth a go if you're struggling

 

[Ali27]

Look at the calm healthy horses website which is based in New Zealand. They actually recommend feeding salt as well as magnesium/ calcium. Our mare suffered last year from being on clover and Jenny sent me a supplement called graze ezy free of charge and by feeding that and salt transformed our ginger girl!

 

[criso]

you can buy straight minerals from Equimins, (you will have to call or email for the price list, Forageplus or Progressive Earth on Ebay.

However I would look at getting a forage analysis done before you start playing around with calcium, phosphorus and magnesium.

I have had a few places analysed and know friends in different parts of the country who have had them done and Calcium has come out consistently high, magnesium low and phosphorus varied. Add to that that Alfalfa and sugarbeet are Calcium rich.

So I would want to be sure I was in the quite unusual position to be lacking calcium before I started adding it.

 

[Mongoose11]

Agreed, no point adding anything or taking anything away until you know what he is currently getting. Perhaps it was just normal first time behaviour and next time will be improved...

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Long story short, after a couple of people mentioning that magnesium calmers can in some cases make a horses behaviour worse, I started to read up on this. I'm going with the calcium (yep you read it right) approach.

Basic theory is that magnesium provides the energy for the calcium to be able to turn nerve cells on and off. If there is not enough energy to do this, the brain wint function and process properly, however, excessive magnesium whilst sending some horses to sleep or generally calming them, in some cases ten excess magnesium causes impaired and erratic response to stimuli and brain function.

The additional bit I've read is that of course if said neddy doesn't have enough calcium in his body at a high level to control the 'on off switch' of these nerve cells in the brain then magnesium or no magnesium they are not going to function properly and enable the horse to process things.

This is the basis for equifeasts theory, initial trials were based on a magnesium and calcium calmer with good effect, but they have seen even better trial results with just calcium. So I'm going out on Monday to get me some of this stuff if I can find it locally. If not I need to knock off the magnesium and feed Ben additional calcium and obviously phosphorus as I will be using a 'loading rate' now, we have some limestone flour in our feed merchants, but then I'm clueless as to what to feed for phosphorous, any suggestions? If not, any suggestions on a calcium supplement that contains phosphorus already?

Thanks all

Queenie,

I always recommend Magic instant calmer, a must for a horsebox or trailer.

Also good to keep on your person on a hack in case your horse gets stressed out. Due to recent condition (IRTML)

 

[Mongoose11]

Really?

 

[Queenbee]

I guess you are getting a nice flush of lovely green spring grass? That = lots of sugar = lots of energy!! Perhaps look at present diet before adding extras??

Nope, guess he went to a show yesterday and blew his brains there. I'm incredibly careful with regards to bens diet.

Be careful going down the calcium route as you can cause these

A rather large lump of Calcium removed from inside a horse.

Still feed the Magnesium but also feed some Calcium too - they work hand in hand

Interesting picture

Sorry to criticise your research but maybe read up on independent trials rather than ones done by the people that produce the calmers. Fact is that:
Magnesium - no evidence it has any calming effect at all. Also Magnesium supplementation can interfere with calcium balance and lead to an increased risk of orthopaedic problems.
Calcium- as above. In a study when blood levels of calcium were reduced it showed no adverse changes to behaviour. Good for horn and hoof crowth however!!!
Tryptophan- can actually cause excitement in some cases. Higher doses can also lower the red blood cell count.

Best thing to do - look at your feeding, exercise and turnout regimes. I'd also be feeding a good quality balanced electrolyte. Funny enough that should contain mag, calcium, sodium, chloride, potassium. That way if your horse is likely to be deficient this will replace what's required.

No, criticism welcome, you will always come across conflicting views, I have seen some of the above points you are making, certainly magnesium didn't touch Ben, and I too have read what you say about tryptophan, but different calmers work In different ways, certainly a magnesium based calmer is not his thing so hopefully tryptophan (which acts in a different way) or calcium levels will sort this out.

Personally I would just buy some CC&C. They offer such a good after sales service. Mine took some tweaking to get 100% and they were fantastic.
Lucy lockett, regardless of what studies say I would recommend anyone with a difficult horse gives it a try. In the grand scheme of things what's £50 compared to what we spend on our horses? I was the biggest calmer sceptic but I was at the end of my tether with one of my horses. We were 2 years on and she couldn't get round a 70cm course within 2 months of being on CC&C she won her first 80 and is about to start BN.
I'm not employed by them (I should be though!) but I'm just really grateful for the change in my horse and think it's worth a go if you're struggling

Oh, yes I am really interested in trying him on cc&c, and will in any case, but I do need to start using by tomorrow so it has time to load in his system before Thursday. And I'm not sure I can get some cc&c easily and locally, would probably have to order it.

Agreed, no point adding anything or taking anything away until you know what he is currently getting. Perhaps it was just normal first time behaviour and next time will be improved...

He has a good diet, I'm not so certain that I need analysis done, and I agree that he will improve, however... I'm not taking a punt that he will be improved by Thursday... I need a calmer for then that is not magnesium based.

Queenie,

I always recommend Magic instant calmer, a must for a horsebox or trailer.

Also good to keep on your person on a hack in case your horse gets stressed out. Due to recent condition (IRTML)

Irtml??? What does that mean??

Calmer wise, magic is mag based so that's out, magic is also what we used yesterday, he was on a magic supplement daily and Friday night had a syringe then again on Saturday. Morning before the show.

There is a lot of evidence to say that magnesium calmers make 'some' horses worse I definitely think Ben actually is one of these horses.

Clearly, whilst I'm not knocking magic and have seen it yield fantastic results with other horses its simply not effective with Ben and I need to try a different approach with him.

Really?

Really what?? I don't get what you're asking really for or to who

Ok gang, im going to address the suggestions about diet, work and routine here. We are not talking about my need for an everyday calmer, we are talking about the need for a calmer for a show, a big show at that, and one that is next Thursday.

At home he is good as gold, of late he has been more 'sharp' than normal on hacks, this I have put down to the grass, and considering he was so chilled before I'm really ok with this, he is still handleable, still listens, still responsive and still good with traffic.

Diet wise, the grass is definitely coming through and it is noticeable both in his general condition and his behaviour on hacks. However, his grass is not in over abundance, he has a paddock large enough for him to have a good gallop but small enough for him not to have a shed load of grass.

This is his diet, his routine and his general workload. I would doubt we need a forage analysis done when we are on a daily supplement.

In at day, out at night.
Smallish, paddock, grass is not fertilised neither does it have muck spread on it, it has been this way for many years.
Feed, he gets a very small handful of alfalfa oil with his equimins supplement and his magic calmer. He gets this twice daily, I'd say he has less than a quarter of a scoop of the feed a day.
Work wise he does a good variety of work, we really predominantly hack at home as he is only a baby but we do do some lunging and school work too, plus the last month or so we have done handling sessions in hand as preparation for the shows.

At home Ben is exceptionally chilled and well behaved. He leads well, isn't Bolshy, is just a saint with all the scrubbing and handling he has had of late I wouldn't blame him to be honest if he were a monster, but he isn't... He's brilliant. Just a wee bit more energy on our hacks but this is fine.

We are simply talking about a effective calmer that is not magnesium based, that can be administered in either liquid or paste form ideally, the day of the show... That is want I want.

 

[Tnavas]

Sorry to criticise your research but maybe read up on independent trials rather than ones done by the people that produce the calmers. Fact is that:
Magnesium - no evidence it has any calming effect at all. Also Magnesium supplementation can interfere with calcium balance and lead to an increased risk of orthopaedic problems.

- suggest that you read and learn about the function of Calcium, Phosphorous and Magnesium

Spring grass is often deficient in Magnesium as it grows too fast to absorb sufficient to maintain a horses' sanity - and now read on and find out why!


Magnesium, an element required for many body functions, is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body. It is required for more than 300 different biochemical reactions in the body and helps to maintain normal muscle and nerve function.

What Happens in the Muscles
Magnesium is important in the development of cell membranes and is a required element in the transport of potassium and calcium across those cell membranes.

While magnesium does not play a direct role in the contraction and relaxation of muscle, it is responsible for the delivery of potassium and calcium, which are directly responsible for the conduction of nerve impulses, muscle contraction and the normal rhythm of your heart.

Nerve and Muscle Relaxation
Magnesium and its fellow macronutrient, calcium, act together to help regulate the body's nerve and muscle tone.

In many nerve cells, magnesium serves as a chemical gate blocker - as long as there is enough magnesium around, calcium can't rush into the nerve cell and activate the nerve.

This gate blocking by magnesium helps keep the nerve relaxed. If the diet provides too little magnesium, this gate blocking can fail and the nerve cell can become over activated.

When some nerve cells are over activated, they can send too many messages to the muscles and cause the muscles to over contract.

This chain of events helps explain how magnesium deficiency can trigger muscle tension, muscle soreness, muscle spasms, muscle cramps, and muscle fatigue

 

[Mongoose11]

Apols. The 'really' was in response to the suggestion of having an emergency calmer in your pocket for hacking.... Surely there's a lot of work to be done prior to having to resort to carrying emergency calmer for a hack?

 

[be positive]

Considering it was Ben's first ever show he was bound to get excited, I think even if you had given him sedalin he would probably have managed to fight it and you know it works on him, so in the circumstances short of proper sedation he was likely to behave as he did.
Any of the so called calmers are unlikely to work, his adrenalin will be pumping and he will be on a high, it is too late for going out regularly and letting him learn how to relax in an atmospheric environment, so you probably just need to get him there and walk him for as long as you can until he does relax.
I think you will be wasting your efforts and money trying at this stage to find something to use to calm him without resorting to chemicals, valerian may help, I used plenty of rescue remedy when taking my sharp cob to county shows, no idea if it worked but it helped me

That may not be what you want to read but there really are very few quick fixes that work, my view is that most have the desired effect on the riders, they relax because they believe the horse will be calmer.

 

[coloredred]

Nothing to add about a calmer but wanted to say that magnesium caused my horse to be a massive stress head at home, on hacks and even worse at shows to the point where he'd Bronc me off in a warm up where previous to magnesium he was an angel at shows. I cut it out of his diet and now I have my normal pony back. Just goes to show that it really does affect some horses badly. Mine wasn't even been supplemented it as a calmer because he didn't need one, it was because he's barefoot but *touch wood* so far he's coping without.

 

[criso]

This is his diet, his routine and his general workload. I would doubt we need a forage analysis done when we are on a daily supplement.

.

Feeding an all round supplement does not take into account the fact that certain minerals need to be fed in a correct ratio to each other and some minerals inhibit the update of others.

You are already on the right track by thinking about how Calcium, Phosphorous and Magnesium interact and that it can have an effect on your horses behaviour if they are not in the right proportions to each other.

The reason so many calmers are magnesium based is that in the UK this is generally low whereas calcium tends to be high.

That's why Magic (mainly brewers yeast and calcium) works for some and not for others depending on whether their behaviour is the result of the deficiency is the first place.

There are always going to be exceptions but given than calcium tends to be high in the UK and magnesium low I would be wary of supplementing calcium without evidence that it was low as this is a relatively unlikely scenario and I would worry about unbalancing the whole diet.

I would also expect a horse that was having issues due to a dietary deficiency to be stressy generally on just on a day out.

 

[lucylockett]

Big difference between deficiency and the results of such and calming supplements which some people seem to be missing the point. As many have said supplementing one without the other is pointless and even more pointless if the horse is not deficient in the first place. As for studies, I'd rather look at proper scientific research than anything else. Would you take a tablet because your friend said it worked or would you take a tablet because your doctor said it is proven to be beneficial? Placebo and such are what a lot of these companies play on with little fact to back it up.
Tnavas - isn't your point precisely what I'm saying???? You're talking electrolyte deficiency.

 

[Palindrome]

Wheat bran has phosphorous (apparently about 600 mg per cup : http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5742/2).

Magnesium however does not contain energy so I would be very wary of your first source. It is just plain false, energy is calories and there is no calories in minerals!

I don't think it would hurt him if you wanted to try giving him a cup of bran and a spoon of limestone flour. The bran needs to be introduced gradually or it will just have a laxative effect.

At this time of year, I would think access to spring grass would be the major cause of brain blowing up.

 

[Palindrome]

Big difference between deficiency and the results of such and calming supplements which some people seem to be missing the point. As many have said supplementing one without the other is pointless and even more pointless if the horse is not deficient in the first place. As for studies, I'd rather look at proper scientific research than anything else. Would you take a tablet because your friend said it worked or would you take a tablet because your doctor said it is proven to be beneficial? Placebo and such are what a lot of these companies play on with little fact to back it up.
Tnavas - isn't your point precisely what I'm saying???? You're talking electrolyte deficiency.

A tablet is a medication, we are talking dietary supplements as in minerals and vitamins. They can also be poisonous if taken in quantities above recommended but not quite the same as taking unknown tablets.

 

[Tnavas]

Tnavas - isn't your point precisely what I'm saying???? You're talking electrolyte deficiency.

No Lucy - I'm not - I'm talking about a seasonal deficiency in fast growing grass that can be addressed by feeding some additional magnesium - there is no need for 'specific research' - the interaction of Magnesium, Calcium and Phosphorous is already well documented. If you give a composit Electrolyte you won't be addressing the problem in balance - the horse needs additional magnesium not all the other macro minerals as well.

'Grass Tetany' is the correct name for the effect of insufficient Magnesium on the horse - it causes the horse to be hyper sensitive to stimuli - sight, sound, or touch - we had a school pony become untouchable for several days following rapid spring growth - vets treatment - yard him, feed hay and bran mash with Epsom Salts - took only a couple of days to come right. Since then my horses have all had free access to a Magnesium Salt block - all are sane and sensible 365 days of the year.

Queenbee - be careful of feeding bran - it contains phytates that block the absorption of calcium - all grains fed to horses contain more phosphorous than is good for them. You don't need to supplement it.

Short of giving your horse Sedalin there is nothing that will 'calm' him once he is excited - apart from that it is a swabbable drug so is forbidden in competition.

With a young horse, time and experience are what is going to settle him - go out to different places as often as you can - even if it is just to tie him to the truck with a haynet for the day. Eventually he will settle.

 

[Palindrome]

I think you will be wasting your efforts and money trying at this stage to find something to use to calm him without resorting to chemicals, valerian may help, I used plenty of rescue remedy when taking my sharp cob to county shows, no idea if it worked but it helped me

Just wanted to say, if you are giving valerian to the horse, do check the rules you are competing under, it's a FEI prohibited substance.

ETA: Not related to above, but about electrolytes, you could give 2 teaspoon of salt a day if you think he is not using his salt lick/not getting salt in his hard feed. I think recommended feeding is about 20-25 mg per day of plain table sea salt or sea salt.

 

[jrp204]

Is there anything on before RC?, any riding club, sj etc. anything really that you can get him to to just soak up the atmosphere?

 

[Lolo]

Considering it was Ben's first ever show he was bound to get excited, I think even if you had given him sedalin he would probably have managed to fight it and you know it works on him, so in the circumstances short of proper sedation he was likely to behave as he did.
Any of the so called calmers are unlikely to work, his adrenalin will be pumping and he will be on a high, it is too late for going out regularly and letting him learn how to relax in an atmospheric environment, so you probably just need to get him there and walk him for as long as you can until he does relax.
I think you will be wasting your efforts and money trying at this stage to find something to use to calm him without resorting to chemicals, valerian may help, I used plenty of rescue remedy when taking my sharp cob to county shows, no idea if it worked but it helped me

That may not be what you want to read but there really are very few quick fixes that work, my view is that most have the desired effect on the riders, they relax because they believe the horse will be calmer.

Someone's speaking sense!

Reg's first show, his feet hardly touched the ground. A calmer wouldn't have touched him, and I doubt valium would have!

What Al did was get on, and let him canter about until he'd worn himself out. If your horse is a bit tired, it can be easier to stop them getting to that completely unreachable place, as they have less energy to wind themselves up with... It's not ideal, but it can work.

County shows are huge atmospheres. Reg is now Mr Chilled, wherever he is. You could walk him round the most mental warm up on the buckle and he wouldn't bat an eyelid. But at his first county show he was buzzed- he tried very hard to focus but the crowds and noise made it a lot for him to handle.

I'd go with a magnesium calmer- I think nikkimariet's sister uses one to amazing effect on her very sharp horse. But I'd also take a massive slug of brandy before my class and go in with the "Meh" attitude. If he gets wound up don't restrain him but let him lose some of his energy- can you warm up on the lunge?

 

[be positive]

Just wanted to say, if you are giving valerian to the horse, do check the rules you are competing under, it's a FEI prohibited substance.

ETA: Not related to above, but about electrolytes, you could give 2 teaspoon of salt a day if you think he is not using his salt lick/not getting salt in his hard feed. I think recommended feeding is about 20-25 mg per day of plain table sea salt or sea salt.

I should have remembered to point out it is prohibited, no idea about in hand classes which is what QB is doing with Ben.

 

[Aarrghimpossiblepony]

Hack the horse to the show.
Knacker the little b*gger before he gets anyway near it.

 

[Queenbee]

Apols. The 'really' was in response to the suggestion of having an emergency calmer in your pocket for hacking.... Surely there's a lot of work to be done prior to having to resort to carrying emergency calmer for a hack?

Ahh, thought it might be, yes... I would feel it a very poor situation indeed if I had to administer calmer every time I wanted to hack lol!

Considering it was Ben's first ever show he was bound to get excited, I think even if you had given him sedalin he would probably have managed to fight it and you know it works on him, so in the circumstances short of proper sedation he was likely to behave as he did.
Any of the so called calmers are unlikely to work, his adrenalin will be pumping and he will be on a high, it is too late for going out regularly and letting him learn how to relax in an atmospheric environment, so you probably just need to get him there and walk him for as long as you can until he does relax.
I think you will be wasting your efforts and money trying at this stage to find something to use to calm him without resorting to chemicals, valerian may help, I used plenty of rescue remedy when taking my sharp cob to county shows, no idea if it worked but it helped me

That may not be what you want to read but there really are very few quick fixes that work, my view is that most have the desired effect on the riders, they relax because they believe the horse will be calmer.

Nothing to add about a calmer but wanted to say that magnesium caused my horse to be a massive stress head at home, on hacks and even worse at shows to the point where he'd Bronc me off in a warm up where previous to magnesium he was an angel at shows. I cut it out of his diet and now I have my normal pony back. Just goes to show that it really does affect some horses badly. Mine wasn't even been supplemented it as a calmer because he didn't need one, it was because he's barefoot but *touch wood* so far he's coping without.

Interesting to note... And I also found an archived thread on here with many people having the same issue.

Big difference between deficiency and the results of such and calming supplements which some people seem to be missing the point. As many have said supplementing one without the other is pointless and even more pointless if the horse is not deficient in the first place. As for studies, I'd rather look at proper scientific research than anything else. Would you take a tablet because your friend said it worked or would you take a tablet because your doctor said it is proven to be beneficial? Placebo and such are what a lot of these companies play on with little fact to back it up.
Tnavas - isn't your point precisely what I'm saying???? You're talking electrolyte deficiency.

This isn't really a issue of blindly following the leader. I used a mag calmer because with a couple of other horses ive owned it has had a positive effect. I started researching alternatives and potential reactions to the use of mag calmers an came across an article (amongst other things) written by the chap who developed cool calm and collected which does have fantastic reviews. They have put a lot into researching the effects and use of their product, including blood testing their subjects to really begin to try and understand the effects and the whys etc...

Wheat bran has phosphorous (apparently about 600 mg per cup : http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5742/2).

Magnesium however does not contain energy so I would be very wary of your first source. It is just plain false, energy is calories and there is no calories in minerals!

I don't think it would hurt him if you wanted to try giving him a cup of bran and a spoon of limestone flour. The bran needs to be introduced gradually or it will just have a laxative effect.

At this time of year, I would think access to spring grass would be the major cause of brain blowing up.

Interesting, yes completely forgot about bran although generally not a fan for long term use it would balance the calcium loading if I decide to do that.

This is the source regarding the magnesium, calcium interplay. It explains it much better than me... Magnesium isn't the energy that was me being basic, it plays a role in the release/provision of the energy... It's a really interesting read.
http://www.horsehero.com/editorial?feat=83626

No Lucy - I'm not - I'm talking about a seasonal deficiency in fast growing grass that can be addressed by feeding some additional magnesium - there is no need for 'specific research' - the interaction of Magnesium, Calcium and Phosphorous is already well documented. If you give a composit Electrolyte you won't be addressing the problem in balance - the horse needs additional magnesium not all the other macro minerals as well.

'Grass Tetany' is the correct name for the effect of insufficient Magnesium on the horse - it causes the horse to be hyper sensitive to stimuli - sight, sound, or touch - we had a school pony become untouchable for several days following rapid spring growth - vets treatment - yard him, feed hay and bran mash with Epsom Salts - took only a couple of days to come right. Since then my horses have all had free access to a Magnesium Salt block - all are sane and sensible 365 days of the year.

Queenbee - be careful of feeding bran - it contains phytates that block the absorption of calcium - all grains fed to horses contain more phosphorous than is good for them. You don't need to supplement it.

Short of giving your horse Sedalin there is nothing that will 'calm' him once he is excited - apart from that it is a swabbable drug so is forbidden in competition.

With a young horse, time and experience are what is going to settle him - go out to different places as often as you can - even if it is just to tie him to the truck with a haynet for the day. Eventually he will settle.

I don't feed any grains . Yes I think he will eventually settle.

Just wanted to say, if you are giving valerian to the horse, do check the rules you are competing under, it's a FEI prohibited substance.

ETA: Not related to above, but about electrolytes, you could give 2 teaspoon of salt a day if you think he is not using his salt lick/not getting salt in his hard feed. I think recommended feeding is about 20-25 mg per day of plain table sea salt or sea salt.

Forgot to add that to diet list... He has a Himalayan salt lick and he really does tuck into this... He definitely has his fair share of salt

I would use valerian and considered and discounted it yesterday as yes we are performing under competition rules bspa and subject to random blood tests.

Is there anything on before RC?, any riding club, sj etc. anything really that you can get him to to just soak up the atmosphere?

No sadly not, aunty g is having a day off today, and not competing this week I don't think although if she does go out I will take him.

Someone's speaking sense!

Reg's first show, his feet hardly touched the ground. A calmer wouldn't have touched him, and I doubt valium would have!

What Al did was get on, and let him canter about until he'd worn himself out. If your horse is a bit tired, it can be easier to stop them getting to that completely unreachable place, as they have less energy to wind themselves up with... It's not ideal, but it can work.

County shows are huge atmospheres. Reg is now Mr Chilled, wherever he is. You could walk him round the most mental warm up on the buckle and he wouldn't bat an eyelid. But at his first county show he was buzzed- he tried very hard to focus but the crowds and noise made it a lot for him to handle.

I'd go with a magnesium calmer- I think nikkimariet's sister uses one to amazing effect on her very sharp horse. But I'd also take a massive slug of brandy before my class and go in with the "Meh" attitude. If he gets wound up don't restrain him but let him lose some of his energy- can you warm up on the lunge?

But magnesium didn't work and he certainly had more than his fair share.

I will however be taking the last syringe and playing it by ear when we get there, I'm trying to leave nothing to chance!

We are also going to be walking him off with two handlers.

Am also working on a cue to get him to drop his head on command which will help calm him.

I did take my hat and saddle but I actually didn't think it was wise to get on... Can't explain it as this is normally my approach but just had a feeling it would not work, rambuck is crappy ground full of holes, really busy yesterday with lots of other horses and no designated warm up area... Just didn't feel the right place to get on. We've been discussing rc, and the horses are actually kept away from the hub, the exercise areas are spacious flat and calm, it's a totally different set up which would be conducive to riding him off. So in many ways RC is much better, more set away from the hub of things, more space, more organised... Certainly no galloping kids on ponies... Plus we have a stable for chill out time.

I should have remembered to point out it is prohibited, no idea about in hand classes which is what QB is doing with Ben.

Yeah, I can't use it

Hack the horse to the show.
Knacker the little b*gger before he gets anyway near it.

Ha ha, would love to but it is a fair old trek! I actually hope the sheer length of the travel will help tire him as its couple of hours to get there.