Calmers - Why are so many being used?

jemima_too said:
IMHO requirement for a calmer is down to what else is fed.

As a quick example, I took on a little mare at the beginning of the year. She was pretty much unhandled, had never been fed anything other than grass and the occasional hay when the snow was really bad and was so chilled and easy and gentle. Once we confirmed she was in foal the vet advised feeding her mare and youngstock mix. Our quiet gentle little mare turned into a bargy bossy spooky pony in two feeds. We scratched our heads and then cut out the mix - pony back to normal in about three days. Changed to something with less oats - back came the monster. Cut that out, nice pony returned. Changed to as basic and "calm" a feed as possible and again she turned into a bargy horror.

She gets no cereal at all now and is back to being her sweet and gentle self. I do seriously worry how many horses and ponies being fed off the shelf "normal" cubes and mixes are actually badly affected by them and am sure that the reason so many people seem to need to feed calmers is because of what they are feeding in the first place.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. But i dont think we can blame feed companies as they actualy do a lot of good work. When i was training for my stages we went to a factory and saw how they manufactourer feeds and i was amazed at the care and attention that is done. All raw materials were anaylised to see nutriention levels and then formulated from there. Couldnt beleive how much care went into one bag of feed.

I think it has more to do with actual owners knowledge of feed and what to feed. Im sure if alot of people looked in their feed bins and asked themselves why am i feeding this, they wouldnt be able to tell you other than, this is what the previous owners fed or my friend feeds this.

Work and exercise also has a massive effect. How many pople over estimate the amount of work there horse/pony does. Most horses can be classed as being in light work, walk trot canter schooling, hacks, jump etc. Medium work - showjumping competivley (1m+) advanced medium dressage and beyond, hard work- racing, 3 day eventing! A lot of people assume hard work is trotting around the school for 45 minutes! So feed there pony high energy feed, its barely in light work and and then wonder why is is so stressy and naughty so then give it a calmer!
 
I don't think it's necessarily about branding novice horse owners numptys - far from it. There are people I know who are not novices by any stretch of the imagination, but want a young, highly bred horse because frankly it looks fantastic BUT they simply do not have the time to put into the horse. These kinds of horses are not "weekend ride" horses, nor ever will be, and that has nothing to do with lack of knowledge as such. That's just common sense really.
 
showqa said:
I don't think it's necessarily about branding novice horse owners numptys - far from it. There are people I know who are not novices by any stretch of the imagination, but want a young, highly bred horse because frankly it looks fantastic BUT they simply do not have the time to put into the horse. These kinds of horses are not "weekend ride" horses, nor ever will be, and that has nothing to do with lack of knowledge as such. That's just common sense really.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.
 
Trot_On_Dressage said:
Ha! Totally agree. This is what i dont get tho, what are arabs part bred or full bred known for? Why on earth would someone buy an arab and then give it a calmer everyday because they cant handle it. Simple answer, dont get an arab, buy a cob!
Click to expand...

Firstly I would like to say why do people assume that cobs are calm!! This really really annoys me.

I own a coloured cob cross mare who is far from calm! Which brings me onto my next soap box. We currently compete at Open level endurance (yes a cob!) and are managing to do the pace no problem however we have been struggling to get her heart rate down as she gets so excited when she sees her tack, to the point that she starts to shake all over.
After taking advice it was suggested that a calmer would help due to the magnesium content. Inline with this I have also started to feed her a performance balancer that also contains magnesium and have cut other hard feed to an absolute minimum (handful if that).
I was recommended the NAF instant magic as i only need the extra help at endurance competitions to help with the heart rate.
We have tried it once with great effect - we used it on the hottest day of the year and did a 42km ride. Her heart rate was slightly lower at the start than normal 32 as oppose to 34 normally. Her finish heart rate was 44 - normally this is 56!!! If thats not proof that they work then I don't know what is.
Needless to say I have stocked up ready for the next competition!

I do not use it all the time simply for competitions. And the only reason I have her on the balancer is due to the amount of work she does. She does not need the bulk but does need all the right vitamins and minerals to support her work load which the balancer does.
 
Thank god for calmers :) I have a very sharp stressy little horse (15hh) and without his magnesium calmer he would be a nightmare!! Before anyone goes shouting me down, he is 14, I have been bought up with horses through Pony Club etc and I have never had such a complex little chap before. I have owned him for 7 years, he is fed on fibre cubes, hay and hi fi (plus his magnesium) exercised 5 or 6 days a week, without his calmer he would have melt down every time I asked him to do more than walk. Not all horses are the same and like people, he is unable to cope with pressure - even the mere thought of living stressed him out. He is ridden in a fulmer, normal noseband, teeth, saddle and back all been checked (physio comes every 3 or 4 months) so it is his complex little brain. What has happened in the past for him to behave like this we have no idea, I just have to work with him and actually as he is getting older he is starting to settle down. I always get the same comments on my dressage sheets that "lovely little horse with beautiful paces and will produce a wonderful test when he settles down and relaxes". I am open to any suggestions (preferably polite ones) as to where I go to next.

At shows the more I work him in the more wound up he gets so I literally get up on him and go into the class and providing we don't have to canter around the ring with lots of other people for too long, he controls himself but if there are lots of competitiors in the class he just winds himself up to the point that sometimes I have to come out of the class because he just can't stand still and is so tense, even though when he is calm his manners are impeccable.
 
You know what drives me insane about the forum, time and again people ignore salient points that have been made. It's been said a few times that THERE IS A PLACE FOR CALMERS and that they can be very useful. That was never the point of the OP. S/he was exploring the fact that they are over-used and perhaps used as a substitute for training/work/correct management and that is a fact - these days they often are. For the record, again, noone is saying that there is NEVER a reason to use them or that everyone who does is useless.
 
Horse2Green i am not at any point saying cobs cant be excitable! I was just generalizing and answering another post. Well done on your success with him.

Again, i think there is a time and a place for a calmer. Im not suggesting that everyone who uses a calmer is wrong i was just trying to understand why there seems to be so many horses on them these days thats all.
 
showqa said:
You know what drives me insane about the forum, time and again people ignore salient points that have been made. It's been said a few times that THERE IS A PLACE FOR CALMERS and that they can be very useful. That was never the point of the OP. S/he was exploring the fact that they are over-used and perhaps used as a substitute for training/work/correct management and that is a fact - these days they often are. For the record, again, noone is saying that there is NEVER a reason to use them or that everyone who does is useless.
Click to expand...
Apols for confusion but is this in response to my post above?
 
I was browsing through the BHS mag and saw an ad for a calmer, loader pack £55.89 !!! on going supplementation 50p a day, aside from all the whys and wherefores, how does anyone afford them ? my horses are all in daily work, off grass only, and seem to manage, if they spook or mess around I just send them forward.
 
No Skewby it's not - it's in response to people getting prickly over the posed discussion about the overuse of calmers, because they do use calmers (even though they MAY WELL be using them sensibly). You get to the point where you're terrified to pop your head over the parapet and disccuss anyting for fear of offending someone who you never had the slightest intention of offending!
 
Trot_On_Dressage said:
Im not saying there isnt a time and a place for a calmer, im sure there is. Nervous horse changing yards, backing etc etc but, should they or do they need to be used everyday? If i had to use a calmer on my hose everyday i would seriously wonder what was wrong, and hes's an ex racehorse! Again, you can argue that the fact you can buy them from a retailer means they probably aent really that strong but in that case why use them. Are they just a habit that cant be stopped? I just find it odd. What on earth did we do all those 20 years ago when they werent available????? I dont recall seeing alot of uncalm horses around!
Click to expand...

Ah you have made a good point - 20 years ago we didn't use calmers but we also never fed the mollassed and high protein feeds we do now! 20 years ago we fed straights. I can recall adding a cup of limestone flour and a grab of salt to my youngsters feed, but he was fed cubes chaff (real chaff not this Honeyed stuff) and flaked barley. We used oats to give more energy for competitions. Even cubes seem to have mollasses in them as do all these likits and field licks - yes the horses like them, but it blows their brains and does their feet in too!
This is why I believe there are so many ulcer ridden stress head horses, too much rich feed without the balance of exercise, limited turnout particularly with valuable competition horses and feeds with an unnatural balance of protein. Many owners are now turning to forage diets like Simple Systems and 'Paradise management system' and barefoot - I wonder why?
Incidentally I feed a calmer to my WB, but then he has been abused and is in pain. He is fed a forage diet and turned out 24/7. I do hope to get him off it - but one thing at a time with him!
 
Last edited:
The only one I use is garlic.

Recently went to robinsons and they have a whole aisle for supplements... I was amazed! Surely half of them don't work or aren't even needed.

As for calmer, my lad came with a tub when I bought him but it's sat on the wall ever since. Good turnout and regular exercise work fine for him.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Ah you have made a good point - 20 years ago we didn't use calmers but we also never fed the mollassed and high protein feeds we do now! 20 years ago we fed straights. I can recall adding a cup of limestone flour and a grab of salt to my youngsters feed, but he was fed cubes chaff (real chaff not this Honeyed stuff) and flaked barley. We used oats to give more energy for competitions. Even cubes seem to have mollasses in them as do all these likits and field licks - yes the horses like them, but it blows their brains and does their feet in too!
This is why I believe there are so many ulcer ridden stress head horses, too much rich feed without the balance of exercise, limited turnout particularly with valuable competition horses and feeds with an unnatural balance of protein. Many owners are now turning to forage diets like Simple Systems and 'Paradise management system' and barefoot - I wonder why?
Incidentally I feed a calmer to my WB, but then he has been abused and is in pain. He is fed a forage diet and turned out 24/7. I do hope to get him off it - but one thing at a time with him!
Click to expand...

Sorry i dont agree with this.

Firstly feeds are not high in molasses. It is a myth that they are. Infact pure molasses is actually lower in sugar than grass! Everyone goes on about sugar and how horses are not designed to use it where in fact they are. Its in grass and hay! Most feeds contain lower alternatives to molasses but again pure molasses has less sugar than grass.

Secondly protein is not an energy source. Horses do not get excitable on too much proetein as they cant use it for energy. Protein is for repair and growth of tissue. Any excess protein in the diet is excreted through their urine.

Cereals and straights contain starch. That is a reason for excitable behaviour.
 
Interesting post. I was never one for calmers. I, like many on here, have always thought that more work/less heating feed was the answer. I had a ex racer who liked routine, and when worked and fed what he needed was a saint, never put a foot wrong. I sadly lost him almost two years ago.
A year ago I got a WB x cob, she is a big powerful girl, different kettle of fish to my TB. However she was well behaved and nothing fazed her. After four months of having her I moved yard to one closer to home. At the time she was getting around two hours work a day, six days a week, but despite this her behaviour deteriorated, I persevered with her, kept her working, took her off all feed with molasses...still she was a cow, had a complete stroppy fit with me one day, launching and bucking because she got a row for trying to nap. I was at my wits end. The vet was in one day, and I mentioned that she was being a madam and they said to try the magnesium. I wasn't to keen so spoke to the farmer about the soil at the yard. Anyway he informed me that it is deficient in magnesium and copper. He also told me that at the old yard ( he farms the neighbouring land) that it was not deficient in magnesium. So I thought "what the hell, give it a go" I now have my old mare back, happy to work gentle to handle and the closest we have to a nap is her having a look down the paths she knows will take her home quicker before she walks on past.
Twenty odd years ago when I started this horse malarkey she would have been labelled a bad horse, so I think when used for the right reasons yes they have their place, but no they shouldn't be used as a band aid for all behaviour problems.
 
Wow this forum is funny. Why are so many calmers being used? Oh because everyone has a sharp horse that is too much for them, doesnt ride it enough and feeds it too much.

In some cases yes Im sure these things are a factor but jeez come on lets not just tar everyone with this.
 
Vickijay said:
Wow this forum is funny. Why are so many calmers being used? Oh because everyone has a sharp horse that is too much for them, doesnt ride it enough and feeds it too much.

In some cases yes Im sure these things are a factor but jeez come on lets not just tar everyone with this.
Click to expand...

Sorry Vickijay but we arent. We have said many times that we think there is a time and a plae for them, we are just discussing it. People get so defensive about stuff. I thought that was the point of this, to discuss things.
 
IMO and to put it very briefly and in general terms, it's either a) not enough exercise b) too much hard feed as opposed to forage, c) the WRONG kind of hard feed; too many mixes have a LOT of mollasses to make them more palatable and it sends a lot of horses loopy or d) any combination of the above.
 
Another point to remember is that to meet EU dirrectives on water quality,water companys are obliged now to remove a lot of minerals including Magnesium .So it is not simply that "30 years ago we didnt have this problem". Personaly I dont consider Magnitude etc calmers .They are a suplement that addresses a deficiency ,the symptom of which is excitable erratic behavior..
 
showqa said:
No Skewby it's not - it's in response to people getting prickly over the posed discussion about the overuse of calmers, because they do use calmers (even though they MAY WELL be using them sensibly). You get to the point where you're terrified to pop your head over the parapet and disccuss anyting for fear of offending someone who you never had the slightest intention of offending!
Click to expand...
Ah in that case, good for you!! And as for the fear of offending, forget it, should you hit a nerve and your intentions are sound, then that is about them not you! Long live good and sound discussion on this forum :D xx
 
oh and should add, used the Wendal's herbs one on my lad and it did make a difference, back when I first had him, he was an absolute bag of nerves and yes it did help. So yes completely agree in certain cases they are very useful!! xx
 
Mike007 said:
Another point to remember is that to meet EU dirrectives on water quality,water companys are obliged now to remove a lot of minerals including Magnesium .So it is not simply that "30 years ago we didnt have this problem". Personaly I dont consider Magnitude etc calmers .They are a suplement that addresses a deficiency ,the symptom of which is excitable erratic behavior..
Click to expand...

What a nice factual and informative post!!! The fact that magnesium addresses a deficiency is surely the point that stops it being a calmer per sae. If the horse is hot but not calmed by magnesium then it is very likely that the horse simply does not have a magnesium deficiency and you might need to look elsewhere to manage it.

A significant number of horses are deficient in magnesium, particularly during grass flushes (check the big increase in 'my horse is a mentalist' posts in spring and autumn!) so a magnesium 'calmer' simply adresses this. Good sense and good horse management, not being unable to manage or train or feed or exercise your horse!

I do disagree with the post above saying how natural a feed ingredient sugar is for horses. Yes it is present in hay and grass, but horses were never designed to eat such a monoculture diet as our green fields give them and so they will recieve much higher levels of sugar than they were ever 'designed' to do. A little should do no harm for most horses, but there is no need to add more to compond the problem when it is possible to easily feed a high fibre/low sugar and starch diet if added feed is needed.
 
ThePony said:
I do disagree with the post above saying how natural a feed ingredient sugar is for horses. Yes it is present in hay and grass, but horses were never designed to eat such a monoculture diet as our green fields give them and so they will recieve much higher levels of sugar than they were ever 'designed' to do. A little should do no harm for most horses, but there is no need to add more to compond the problem when it is possible to easily feed a high fibre/low sugar and starch diet if added feed is needed.
Click to expand...

I agree that we should be feeding a high fibre low sugar and stach diet, that was what i have been trying to get at.

I was just arguing aginst the fashionable line of thought that feed these days contains high amounts of sugar!
 
ThePony said:
What a nice factual and informative post!!! The fact that magnesium addresses a deficiency is surely the point that stops it being a calmer per sae. If the horse is hot but not calmed by magnesium then it is very likely that the horse simply does not have a magnesium deficiency and you might need to look elsewhere to manage it.

A significant number of horses are deficient in magnesium, particularly during grass flushes (check the big increase in 'my horse is a mentalist' posts in spring and autumn!) so a magnesium 'calmer' simply adresses this. Good sense and good horse management, not being unable to manage or train or feed or exercise your horse!

I do disagree with the post above saying how natural a feed ingredient sugar is for horses. Yes it is present in hay and grass, but horses were never designed to eat such a monoculture diet as our green fields give them and so they will recieve much higher levels of sugar than they were ever 'designed' to do. A little should do no harm for most horses, but there is no need to add more to compond the problem when it is possible to easily feed a high fibre/low sugar and starch diet if added feed is needed.
Click to expand...

This! Very sensible.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Ah you have made a good point - 20 years ago we didn't use calmers but we also never fed the mollassed and high protein feeds we do now! 20 years ago we fed straights. I can recall adding a cup of limestone flour and a grab of salt to my youngsters feed, but he was fed cubes chaff (real chaff not this Honeyed stuff) and flaked barley. We used oats to give more energy for competitions. Even cubes seem to have mollasses in them as do all these likits and field licks - yes the horses like them, but it blows their brains and does their feet in too!
This is why I believe there are so many ulcer ridden stress head horses, too much rich feed without the balance of exercise, limited turnout particularly with valuable competition horses and feeds with an unnatural balance of protein. Many owners are now turning to forage diets like Simple Systems and 'Paradise management system' and barefoot - I wonder why?
Incidentally I feed a calmer to my WB, but then he has been abused and is in pain. He is fed a forage diet and turned out 24/7. I do hope to get him off it - but one thing at a time with him!
Click to expand...

I would agree with this.....I am currently feeding a calmer to a horse - yup- an arab- not because of his arab-ness;) its because he had a total lack of confidence and was very very nervous when I got him- you can't learn anything in that state.....

He is totally different now and I'm looking to reduce the calmer and hopefully do without it.......but if he needs it then so be it. Each horse is different and although I do not feed cereals/sugars and use a fibre only diet ( as much as possible) then - needs must.
 
I feed magnitude in the summer because we have stupidly rich grass. It's pure magnesium not very expensive either.
Other then that no calmers, he's not a very stressy horse and if he's full of beans it's usually because he needs a good gallop :).
 
Trot_On_Dressage said:
Sorry i dont agree with this.

Firstly feeds are not high in molasses. It is a myth that they are. Infact pure molasses is actually lower in sugar than grass! Everyone goes on about sugar and how horses are not designed to use it where in fact they are. Its in grass and hay! Most feeds contain lower alternatives to molasses but again pure molasses has less sugar than grass.

Secondly protein is not an energy source. Horses do not get excitable on too much proetein as they cant use it for energy. Protein is for repair and growth of tissue. Any excess protein in the diet is excreted through their urine.

Cereals and straights contain starch. That is a reason for excitable behaviour.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I strongly disagree with your comments re protein! Please see this informative article below. Too much protein has a very adverse effect on horses including making them appear 'muscled up' due to fluid retention! It also affects them mentally - I made the mistake of feeding one of my mine a popular feed containing 21% protein and it really affected him!

http://www.womenandhorses.com/protein20050517.html

And you talk to any farrier about molasses and hoof quality. It is detrimental to feed molasses in any quantity and just smell a field lick to realise how much is in there. It makes everything palatable.
I do agree about your comments re starch and cereals though and I feed Allen & Page non cereal/starch feeds myself.
 
Last edited:
I use one on a horse who defied all the 'normal' rules of training and couldn't even relax properly in the field, despite being in a steady herd, living out in a very sheltered environment (own field so v little coming and going), with restricted grazing and no hard feed.

The strongest indicator of it being a mineral deficiency is that, at the grand old age of five years nine months, she suddenly began to grow like a weed once on the calmer. She's shot up two inches, lengthened to match, and is simply a different horse to be around - just a normal baby. She still spooks at foxes or flapping branches, need to run around in the field or under saddle to let off steam, and is bright and inquisitive, but her reactions are no longer over-the-top, and she is able to learn now by repeated exposure, that things won't actually hurt her. None of the other horses, on similar diets, have this issue, so I've had to conclude that she has something 'missing' that means she cannot take up this mineral as normal in her diet and needs chelated forms to enable her to absorb it. Good thing for her, that the calmer is available.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Sorry but I strongly disagree with your comments re protein! Please see this informative article below. Too much protein has a very adverse effect on horses including making them appear 'muscled up' due to fluid retention! It also affects them mentally - I made the mistake of feeding one of my mine a popular feed containing 21% protein and it really affected him!

http://www.womenandhorses.com/protein20050517.html

And you talk to any farrier about molasses and hoof quality. It is detrimental to feed molasses in any quantity and just smell a field lick to realise how much is in there. It makes everything palatable.
I do agree about your comments re starch and cereals though and I feed Allen & Page non cereal/starch feeds myself.
Click to expand...

Please reread my post and you will see i was talking about how protein isnt an energy source. Horses do not use it for energy so high protein doesnt cause excitabilty. Obviously any nutreint in excess is going to have some kind of detremental effect on any animal. This is why diets should be balanced.

I am shocked that your feed was 21% protein. Which one was you using? Most respectable feed companies use a protein level of between 10-15% and slightly higher 16% for youngstock feeds.

Sugar is actually needed for body functions. It is a prime energy source so it would be impossiable to feed anything without it. Molasses is a low sugar by product of sugar and feed companies use a low alternative sugar to mollasses in most feeds so it isnt actually pure molasses. (and even pure molasses is lower in sugar than sugar!) Generally it only makes up to between 2-5% of a feed so not very much at all. (Rememebering that it is neede for the body to function) Grass contains around 75g of sugar per kg and horses can eat 1kg per hour! That would be more sugar than in a whole bag of feed.

Heathly hooves require a balanced diet. Generally i think the problem with sugar and feeds really comes down to owners lack of understanding on what to feed and the horses condition. Fat horses/ponies on non restricted grazing and fed high energy feeds as they lack that little sparkle for the show ring when really they just need to go on a diet and do more exercise.

Anyway, i think we have gone off topic from what the original post was about.
 
I think some horses can benefit from them but do agree I think they are over used nowadays! A bit like a lot of these supplements I think most of them are unnecessary and money making! Don't get me wrong I used a few on my horse a few years ago but none of them worked. Each horse is different though. I think they're a bit like a placebo!! I found routine, diet (high fibre) and plenty of turnout helped mine chill out a bit!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top