Calmsden BE90 Section G Dressage Murder

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scm

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Firstly wanted to say what a nice new event, very well run with super xc course.

However anyone in section g who thought they had done the worst test in their life....the judge is a BD list 1 Judge. So of the 40 or so competitors 20+ scored worse than 45 one scored sixty and 10 or so in the 50's!

It does ask the question why on earth have a list 1 judge at intro level? I saw one girl in the 50's in tears she had never scored so bad and the mood amongst sec g riders was not great. If their sheets were like ours there was not a word of encouragement (we were 8th best on 41) on it. A great way to encorage lower level riders...maybe next year we could have Stephen Clarke judging 80T classes?

The winner finished on 39 normally good enough for a low level placing. Before anyone says it is all relative and where you finish after dressage should guide you on you test....handing out sheets of 5's and 4's is a bit over zealous for a quarter of entries!.and hardly encouraging

Further more our distinguished judge never noticed one rider finished the testand walked out the arena at B not at 'A on a long rein'
 
Are you going to give any hint as to who the judge was??

Many many years (about 15 years) ago my daughter was competing at the PC Area Dressage, she was ok but in another arena a judge was giving 1's and 0's!!!! She gave one poor child a 0 for her riding!! AT PC! The DC of another PC complained to BD and lots of us backed her up, the said judge was then removed from the list of those who could judge at PC Area Dressage.

Surely judges are meant to encourage and help with their comments and marks.
 
Sounds harsh and dissapointing if there is no encouraging comments. A list 1 judge should be able to judge any level and most would. You do not need to leave at A anymore so she was perfectly correct allowing someone to leave at B.
 
It is a pity that she was not more encouraging but it may be nothing to do with her being a List 1 judge. I know some List 6 or unlisted who can be equally harsh :mad: Do think it is against the spirit of competition to not be positive and encouraging (within reason of course!)

My best dressage at Intro this year was judged by a List 2 judge. So I like to kid myself that her extra experience picked up how good we are unlike some more lowly judges :rolleyes::p
 
Sarah_Jane said:
Sounds harsh and dissapointing if there is no encouraging comments. A list 1 judge should be able to judge any level and most would. You do not need to leave at A anymore so she was perfectly correct allowing someone to leave at B.
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Thats what you would think but half the class worse than 45, nearly 10 in the 50's and one 60. To be honest I am not raising the point as I was disappointed where we finished..I could'nt care as ours is young and green and retired xc so was irrelevant but I was disappointed to see a young girl in tears who had done what i would think would be normally low to mid 40's test
 
I thought it was odd. It was the only time that I was thrilled to see I'd got a 45 dressage! Very odd judge. I went in very early (shoved in by steward) and just after I trotted past A she beeped the horn. Thats all fine and well but I decided to trot round again as he wasn't very settled at this point (and we were 10 minutes early!), only to be beeped again 5 times when I went round the corner. Not a good test, but very harsh marking. My canter was 'unbalanced' - I'd expect a 6 or a 5, not a 4! I'm not having a go, I actually found it amusing as I ended up having a competition on how many 4s I had compared to the person next to me. I simply thought that it wasn't necessary to be that harsh!
 
scm said:
Firstly wanted to say what a nice new event, very well run with super xc course.

However anyone in section g who thought they had done the worst test in their life....the judge is a BD list 1 Judge. So of the 40 or so competitors 20+ scored worse than 45 one scored sixty and 10 or so in the 50's!

It does ask the question why on earth have a list 1 judge at intro level? I saw one girl in the 50's in tears she had never scored so bad and the mood amongst sec g riders was not great. If their sheets were like ours there was not a word of encouragement (we were 8th best on 41) on it. A great way to encorage lower level riders...maybe next year we could have Stephen Clarke judging 80T classes?


The winner finished on 39 normally good enough for a low level placing. Before anyone says it is all relative and where you finish after dressage should guide you on you test....handing out sheets of 5's and 4's is a bit over zealous for a quarter of entries!.and hardly encouraging

Further more our distinguished judge never noticed one rider finished the testand walked out the arena at B not at 'A on a long rein'
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You can leave the arena wherever you want, providing it is safe to do so! BE is normally on grass and the boards are not continuous so I actually prefer it if the competitor before me has the decency to leave early because it gives me more time to settle my horse! Then I do the same for the next competitor.

I could narrow it down to a shortlist of 3 or 4 who said judge was, but rest assured there are some serial killers on list 4&5 who massacre the humble grass roots.
Having said that one of the really harsh list 1's I know always will make time for the competitors and explain why she has given the mark. She will freely come up and chat about it and give positive ways for you to improve which is not required but netherless great to hear her perils of wisdom. The rest, I agree are bloody stingey and I was slaughtered in a medium on saturday so totally know how you feel. Its so unnecessary!!
 
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We were also very disillusioned with this judge. We always mark ourselves and we thought 36 -39. But no, late 40's. We were going to withdraw, but decided to wait until the last minute - Went to the scoreboard and we were quite good, so decided to continue. Off the record we were told that this double-barrelled named judge was retiring that day!!! Where do you think this ------- person should go?? On a different subject where do all or old little milkers go???? The big dairy farm in the sky.
 
I was also in Section G & also got slated in the dressage! My horse has a consistent dressage record at Intro & PN tests, ususally low 30's or high 20's. He did a lovely test, accurate & fairly expressive - all my 'support crew' were doing thumbs up at the end & it 'felt' like a really good test.
Gutted to receive 41.0....
This is the worst score I have had all season, and almost EVER!
My husband videoed the test & I have watched it back several times & just cannot see what she took 'issue' with.
We left before the end so I am waiting for my test sheet to come in the post to be enlightened.
It was VERY de-moralising & I totally understand how upsetting it must have been for others in the section.
Apart from that, a very nice new event on the calendar.
 
rosiedog said:
We were also very disillusioned with this judge. We always mark ourselves and we thought 36 -39. But no, late 40's. We were going to withdraw, but decided to wait until the last minute - Went to the scoreboard and we were quite good, so decided to continue. Off the record we were told that this double-barrelled named judge was retiring that day!!! Where do you think this ------- person should go?? On a different subject where do all or old little milkers go???? The big dairy farm in the sky.
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sorry forgot to thank the organisers for a brilliant event, so well organised,
 
RachB said:
I was also in Section G & also got slated in the dressage! My horse has a consistent dressage record at Intro & PN tests, ususally low 30's or high 20's. He did a lovely test, accurate & fairly expressive - all my 'support crew' were doing thumbs up at the end & it 'felt' like a really good test.
Gutted to receive 41.0....
This is the worst score I have had all season, and almost EVER!
My husband videoed the test & I have watched it back several times & just cannot see what she took 'issue' with.
We left before the end so I am waiting for my test sheet to come in the post to be enlightened.
It was VERY de-moralising & I totally understand how upsetting it must have been for others in the section.
Apart from that, a very nice new event on the calendar.
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Your post echo's exactly how we felt, we scored 41.5 and we score similar to you usually by the sounds of it. We felt ours was high 20's low 30's too and i think from the tests i saw she was 7-10% out compared to your average judge.
 
I know a list 2 judge and she doesn't want to become a list 1 as they are pretty awful to her and others. She said most of them won't be encouraging at lower levels as they expect you to be perfect like you are riding PSG and she also said most of them think it's below them unless its Adv.M+ :/
 
probably not worth it if she is retiring but if i had a video and really didn't agree with the scores i'd been given then i'd probably complain to BD...
 
I saw the dressage marks for section G, however i dont think it should be a black cloud over what a fantastic event Calmsden was. Fantastic course, set up and some lovely prizes.
 
I think it would be worth the competitors from section G to email the organisers, thank them for the event and just say that you hope the dressage judge won't be invited back - if she is retiring it might mean that they are just retiring from BD and may get called upon for next years event - something 'to keep their eye in'
 
My dressage sheet arrived in the post today. Bearing in mind that alothough I was given a BAD score, it was still at the top end of section (6th or 7th after Dr)......and one of the better tests she marked all day.......well.......it was AWFUL.
She wrote an essay in the final comment - with everything being criticised - every part of my horses way of going & she then went onto my position!
I cannot see how that is constructive in any way shape or form & I am totally demoralised at the thought that our flatwork is THAT bad.
I just hate to think what the 50+ tests had on their sheets........
 
that is terrible :(
i'm a qualified RC style jumping ,dressage & riding test judge

fair enough just RC level and not area levels yet but at our training days it is repeated over and over again that you must be constructive and you must find something nice to say no matter how bad the rider/horse is

i think i am quite kind and were i was giving a 6 for a movement (we are judge judging)
she was saying i would have found a 7 for that

even if someone is really bad witch im sure non of you were ,we have to find something encouraging to say.
ex: if rider is constantly on wrong diagonal (riding tests) you can not just say "wrong diagonal" you must say something like "very nice pony/horse ,try to ensure you check your diagonals in trot as this will help his inside hind leg come through more for better marks next time ,well done"

i know this is RC level but i would imagine the lower levels of BE should be the same

i think it would be a good idea to email the organisers as carolinefox has already said and maybe send a scanned copy of the test sheet as if i was organising a RC dressage comp i would not have that judge back as i wouldn't want people leaving my event feeling disheartened :(
 
Faith is RESTORED. We went to Broadway yesterday & did a nice test and our mark was.......26.5.
Just wanted to post with the aim of letting people know that Calmsden was definately a bit of a 'freak of nature' in dressage marking terms.
I feel Sooo much better! Good luck to all in your final events of the 2010 season
 
Didn't see this thread first time round. Please don't black list all list 1 judges on this one judges actions.

From all the tests I have ridden I can say without hesitation the best fairest judges I have ridden under were all list 1 and in some cases international level judges. There will though at every level be judges who judge somewhat erractically these are the tests you have to chalk up to experience and hope it wasn't an important competition.

Given the choice I would chose a list 1 judge over a list 5 any day!
 
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