Can a horse 'put it on'?

Seems to me the mare is either uncomfortable now , or remembering discomfort/pain and expecting to experience it again.
It can be very hard for mares who have had a foal to come back to work. She may have quite weak ligaments that make the saddle and rider too much of a burden.So get her back checked - by a good vet .
You say she d love to be a broodmare - no money in breeding I know , but an unhappy ridden horses isnt fun, and her behaviour could deteriorate. For posters to tell you to 'push through it' - well, thats not very kind to the horse! I dont believe horse s are capable of acting to a great degree, much more likely to be pain or anticpation of pain. Having said that , one of our regular students has a pony so naughty he can feign 'submission' by lowerin ghis head and lateraling flexing nicely. But he d only do that once - ask again and his right thoughts come out! Interestingly, despute being quite fat, he had terrible ulcers, so his grumpiness became very understandable. So again, pain related behaviour problms.
 
cornbrodolly said:
Seems to me the mare is either uncomfortable now , or remembering discomfort/pain and expecting to experience it again.
It can be very hard for mares who have had a foal to come back to work. She may have quite weak ligaments that make the saddle and rider too much of a burden.So get her back checked - by a good vet .
You say she d love to be a broodmare - no money in breeding I know , but an unhappy ridden horses isnt fun, and her behaviour could deteriorate. For posters to tell you to 'push through it' - well, thats not very kind to the horse! I dont believe horse s are capable of acting to a great degree, much more likely to be pain or anticpation of pain. Having said that , one of our regular students has a pony so naughty he can feign 'submission' by lowerin ghis head and lateraling flexing nicely. But he d only do that once - ask again and his right thoughts come out! Interestingly, despute being quite fat, he had terrible ulcers, so his grumpiness became very understandable. So again, pain related behaviour problms.
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Yes, my gut feeling is that it is genuine pain. Even if it isn't, the horse obviously does not want to be ridden. Should horses like this be made to perform? Personally, I don't think so, but what is the alternative? If her owner was rich enough to keep her as a field ornament and buy another riding horse, she would. As it is, I see the only option for her, if she can't be ridden, is to loan her as a brood mare. Here breeding is good, as is her conformation. She herself has proved to be a scopey jumper, and moves beautifully.
 
I'm not advising anyone to push through pain corndolly. But I do think sometimes people are a little soft. A horse can't learn bad behavoir? Well suffice to say they can't learn the right way either going on that basis. Not all horses that don't feel like doing something are in pain. That's like saying every horse that does everything asked isn't in pain. But if a horse learns I can stop having to work in a certain manner than he/she may continue this pattern.

You may think I'm being harsh keeping my mare going. Well the alternative would be to live a life in a small dead paddock. She is much better off for the exercise. We aren't talking upper level training here. We are talking about staying fit and having some quality of life versus being a bad lawn ornament. I guess she could walk in hand twice a day for an hour or so but I don't have that time. So far 3 vets and an animal communicator say nothing wrong. And at some point it makes sense I may be part of the problem which I've addressed. And now she is going much better. Should add this mare has never reared or bucked. Can just be very resentful at times. But to be honest if you look around most horses have something we use as excuses instead of just trying to get any level of fitness before playing forum vet. I'm really convinced being a pasture puff is not conducive to a healthy horse. Some horses have injuries that require such measures. Others really may not be as bad as people want to believe. Wagtail, that's not directed at you. But remember too, this is a board full of many people who think only they can do the job. So no I don't buy it's always pain. I don't think horses "try it on" but I think people have become to wishy washy to an extent and excuses are easier than riding better and becoming better horseman.

Terri
 
If it was mine... firstly I would suggest an animal communication (I have used Jackie Weaver before, and she has been most helpful), and getting a thermal imaging scan done of the whole horse. Hopefully either of these may help to pick up if there are any problematic areas on the horse. If nothing shows up, or when the vet comes to investigate anything, I would ask to get the ovaries scanned. It's a simple cheap procedure, and may well show up something in there.

If you search on here, there has been some good reviews about Alltech's Lifeforce Formula, which is meant to help the horse if it's got hind gut ulcers. Could well be worth buying a pack of this too see if it helps...
 
Also other thoughts... I've had iridology done on my horse before, but if you don't have anyone local, it works out horrendously expensive. However, suspecting where you are, Leanne Wrentmore wouldn't be too far away from you.

Have you also considered getting a hair analysis done from Crossgates Bioenergetics. I've had this done for my current horse, and the results have basically backed up what the vet and physio have found...
 
Equilibrium Ireland I think you're spot on. I can also totally identify with your attitude towards your mare. I do much the same and need to man up with her and look forwards, instead of compensating for the past health issues she's had.
 
Could you swap your feed to simple systems as it doesn't have anything in at all apart from Alfa which is ment to line the gut , also I went on one of there talks they recommended feeding before work as it stops the acid splashing around they are worth talking too as it may help.
 
Well she was scoped this morning and is clear of ulcers. However, when they did an ultrasound on her abdomen, they did find a thickening of the walls of the large intestine. Not a huge amount (6mm instead of the 3 mm norm). The vet did not think it was enough to produce her symptoms though. But we are going to try her on steroids which should treat the condition and try riding her again after 2 weeks on the meds and see.
 
wench said:
Also other thoughts... I've had iridology done on my horse before, but if you don't have anyone local, it works out horrendously expensive. However, suspecting where you are, Leanne Wrentmore wouldn't be too far away from you.

Have you also considered getting a hair analysis done from Crossgates Bioenergetics. I've had this done for my current horse, and the results have basically backed up what the vet and physio have found...
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I second an iridology report - mine for my WB was extremely accurate, pinpointing the lameness disgnosed by Newmarket before he had been. Leanne reported on my horse via photos of his eyes. They have to be very good quality photos taken in the shade with no reflective light if the horse is not local enough to visit.
 
Hi, have you considered using a qualified equine behaviour consultant?
Look on the Society of Equine Behaviour Consultant's website to find someone near to you. Fundamental to the diagnosis will be to analyse the difference between any tension signs your horse demonstrates, and confident disobedience from learned behaviour. Sometimes slow motion videos are needed to demonstrate tiny signs.
The format is a consultation, history taking, analysis and a retraining programme, if appropriate. It is not particularly expensive and based on sound scientific principles. Your consultant will be qualified and insured to help with this mare.
Best wishes.
 
Hi, have you considered using a qualified equine behaviour consultant?
Look on the Society of Equine Behaviour Consultant's website to find someone near to you. Fundamental to the diagnosis will be to analyse the difference between any tension signs your horse demonstrates, and confident disobedience from learned behaviour. Sometimes slow motion videos are needed to demonstrate tiny signs.
The format is a consultation, history taking, analysis and a retraining programme, if appropriate. It is not particularly expensive and based on sound scientific principles. Your consultant will be qualified and insured to help with this mare.
Best wishes.
 
Thanks to all of you who have offered adice on this thread. I think we now have our answer.

I am so pleased her owner and myself stuck to our guns and insisted there was a pain issue with this mare. I had said to the vet a couple of days ago that she felt like a horse with kissing spine (as I've ridden a few!). Yesterday they xrayed her spine which had been fine 3 years ago and she has some very close processes with two overlapping, right where the saddle sits. Bless her. She had been trying to tell us in the only way she knew how. So pleased we listened. Now I just hope we can get her right.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks to all of you who haveoffered adice on this thread. I thinkwe now have our answer.

I am so pleased her owner and myself stuck to our guns and insisted there was a pain issue with this mare. I said to the vet a couple of days ago that she felt like a horse with kissing spine (as I've ridden a few!). Yesterday they xrayed her spine which had been fine 3 years ago and she has some very close processes with two overlapping, right where the saddle sits. Bless her. She had been trying to tell us in the only way she knew how. So pleased we listened. Now I just hope we can get her right.
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Oh that's good news (sort of, if you know what I mean, as in she wasn't just being difficult), I followed this thread with interest before because the line between behavioural and physical can be so difficult to spot. So, if you don't mind me asking, what are the treatment options for processes that are close?
 
Glad you found the answer my old boy did very well on steriods being injected into the site and course of Tildren and regular physio I stopped schooling him did lots of leading from another horse ( his back was very heavily muscled so I had nothing to do down that route) hacking and light hunting he had a lovely time until something esle caught up with him.
Just thought I would post if you are are offered a non surgical option it did work for us.
 
DabDab said:
Oh that's good news (sort of, if you know what I mean, as in she wasn't just being difficult), I followed this thread with interest before because the line between behavioural and physical can be so difficult to spot. So, if you don't mind me asking, what are the treatment options for processes that are close?
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Pearlsasinger said:
So glad you've found the cause. I guess the next problem is what to do about it!
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Goldenstar said:
Glad you found the answer my old boy did very well on steriods being injected into the site and course of Tildren and regular physio I stopped schooling him did lots of leading from another horse ( his back was very heavily muscled so I had nothing to do down that route) hacking and light hunting he had a lovely time until something esle caught up with him.
Just thought I would post if you are are offered a non surgical option it did work for us.
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The first thing we are going to do is to block the back and ride her with some local anaesthetic to see if there is some improvement, because if there is, then there's a good chance steroid injections will work.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks to all of you who have offered adice on this thread. I think we now have our answer.

I am so pleased her owner and myself stuck to our guns and insisted there was a pain issue with this mare. I had said to the vet a couple of days ago that she felt like a horse with kissing spine (as I've ridden a few!). Yesterday they xrayed her spine which had been fine 3 years ago and she has some very close processes with two overlapping, right where the saddle sits. Bless her. She had been trying to tell us in the only way she knew how. So pleased we listened. Now I just hope we can get her right.
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Good for you, both - sticking to your guns :)
 
Just an update to this old thread for those who may be interested.

The mare had the steroid injections and they made no difference. The vets decided that though the processes were close, they were not really causing her a problem. We did find that this mare has a problem raising her back but after lots of chiropractor sessions, this has improved significantly. However, she has still refused to be ridden by her owner (threatening to rear etc). Today we had a professional rider come and ride her, and though she napped at first and threatened to go up a few times (front feet coming off the ground), she ended up doing some lovely work and he really liked her. So it seems that yes she had a few aches and pains but at the end of the day, even when these were addressed she just didn't want to work. We will have to see what she is like when her owner tries to ride her again.

In the past I would have ridden her through it myself, but my courage is not what it used to be and I am not prepared to risk injury with no back up for me in the livery yard. I guess the mare senses this lack of real determination.

However, I have to ask myself, do I really want to ride a horse that does not really want to be ridden? The answer is 'no', even though part of me feels that it is the horse's job and we all have to work when often we don't want to...
 
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Depends on the horse. My old TB was as thick as a plank but smart enough to know that i would get off if he walked a bit slow and wobbly. I would get off, check everything then get back on and he would walk off as if "oh well if i have to do it i might as well get on with it" so on the same ground, same level, no changes, he would walk like a dead horse to stepping out.
 
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