Shysmum
Well-Known Member
^^^ BLIMEY - you have just posted some absolute CORKERS of examples of animals at lami risk - this illustrates the argument perfectly.
Can a 'rounded' show cob actually be fit & healthy?
- Thread starter Hutchlou
- Start date
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
If you have never seen these horses in the flesh and have only seen photos of them, then you will not realise how muscular the majority of these animals are.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Carrots&mints your links don't even pull up clear photos of a single horse 
BTW, most of us have seen enough show horses and ponies in the flesh to judge, thanks very much
BTW, most of us have seen enough show horses and ponies in the flesh to judge, thanks very much
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Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
If you went up to these horses and feel their necks, you would feel not floppy fat deposits but just pure muscle. I am not having an argument just proving a fact.
You are personally invited to come for a day out showing with me and I will prove you wrong
Plus if all these show ponies and horses are fat... why are they NOT coming down with lami?! or having cardiac arrests in the middle of the show ring because they are so unhealthy???
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Carrots&mints your links don't pull up clear photos of a single horse
Yeah I know, weird haha just google their names, the photos will come up
turkana
Well-Known Member
I watched the hunters at Bicester & Finmere show this weekend & many of them (including the champion & reserve champion) wobbled when they moved, beautiful animals but their condition was terrible.
They may have been muscular but you wouldn't know as any muscle was buried in a moutain of fat.
Has anybody seen the calm & condition advert featuring a bay show horse? If ever an advert was designed to put me of buying a product it is that one, why anybody would aspire to having their horse look like that is beyond me!
They may have been muscular but you wouldn't know as any muscle was buried in a moutain of fat.
Has anybody seen the calm & condition advert featuring a bay show horse? If ever an advert was designed to put me of buying a product it is that one, why anybody would aspire to having their horse look like that is beyond me!
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
In my experience, at least half the ponies in the show ring are lame, and (/or) buted to the eye balls. Sad fact is, I've seen that myself. You're not the only person with first hand experience, and I have to say, all my experiences of showing lead me to have serious reservations about the welfare of the animals involved.
eta - Turkana, that's a good point - many of the advertisements for conditioning feed show obese animals. It's hardly surprising that so many people can't differentiate between fat and fit.
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
Well having a good friend as a show producer and having liveried as said show producers yard and gone to many a showing show with them (and others of my own accord) I can safely say I've seen enough for the jury to be out for me I'm afraid.
The showing world needs a shake up- in more ways than one!
The showing world needs a shake up- in more ways than one!
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Buted to the eyeballs?!? It is against all rules to have your horse on bute whilst competing and I dont think a massive prodcer would risk their name competing a horse or pony whilst on bute, incase it was blood tested, which does go on at the top shows.
And the lame comment is just damn daft, if they were lame the judges would ask them to leave the ring, which I have seen.
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
Depending on whether the judge was competent enough to even spot the lameness and after some of the judging I've witnessed in the past that in itself is debateable. Then of course you have the politics so if it's one of the top names things will often go 'unnoticed.'
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
No, sadly not always the case. I watched an in-hand class at County level where the winner was really lame behind - even my non-horsey Dad noticed that it was 'taking a weird short step with one hind leg' (his description almost word for word) and the winner was the only lame animal in the class.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
I'm well aware of the rules. Sadly I know first hand that they are regarded with little respect by some show producers. You may think they wouldn't be so stupid - and for some of them, you may be right. But I have seen horses buted in the morning and head off to HOYS in the afternoon.
As for lameness, I implore you to watch your classes more carefully. Very few judges are capable of spotting lameness, and fewer still are prepared to act on it.
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Theres not point me even commmenting and trying to sow you the acual facts is tere because majority of people on here that see a well schooled pony or horse in he show ring and then notice it has got a rather big neck, before evn contemplating that this neck might be muscle its automatical fat.
But can I just say, if these animals are so obese why arnt the animal welfare people kicking up a fuss? why arnt theses horses coming down with lami, youd have thought a pony thats way to fat with a fat neck eating all the nice lush grass would come down with lami?
But can I just say, if these animals are so obese why arnt the animal welfare people kicking up a fuss? why arnt theses horses coming down with lami, youd have thought a pony thats way to fat with a fat neck eating all the nice lush grass would come down with lami?
dogatemysalad
Well-Known Member
I do wonder if enough people can tell the difference between a fat horse and a muscled horse.
At the other end of the spectrum, I see owners who are proud of their cobs that quite frankly look poor. Thin and lacking muscle tone.
No horse will develop muscle without the correct balance of diet and exercise. Having a muscled horse with a good coat and energy is hard work. A soaked haynet and muzzle won't do it.
At the other end of the spectrum, I see owners who are proud of their cobs that quite frankly look poor. Thin and lacking muscle tone.
No horse will develop muscle without the correct balance of diet and exercise. Having a muscled horse with a good coat and energy is hard work. A soaked haynet and muzzle won't do it.
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Think about it this way.... Mo Farah... a slim guy but yet fit and healthy... and then Usain Bolt... a very big muscular man but still fit and healthy
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
You can't show 'facts' with opinions.
Animal welfare people won't get involved because whilst it is still widely accepted as 'normal' in the showing world why would they? I think if there were animal welfare officers at these shows and their opinions were ASKED FOR, they would probably state what has been said on here.
turkana
Well-Known Member
Usain Bolt doesn't wobble when he walks, unlike the show horses I saw at the weekend.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Very true, but Usain wont be carrying excess fat.Think about it this way.... Mo Farah... a slim guy but yet fit and healthy... and then Usain Bolt... a very big muscular man but still fit and healthy
I think the endurance horses come into the 'marathon runner' class and TB sprinters are comparable with 100m runners. Both types of horses are actually pretty lean (but very fit and healthy).
DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
I think you have a point to a certain extent. With the video that Faracat posted the lady in it explained how the spine should stand proud from the back as you run your hand along it, but with a well muscled up horse as much the case as that video was making out. And I do genuinely think that it is a hard one for people to judge - but of course it you have a pony that spends its days mooching in the field and doing only a small amount of work then the likelihood is that it is fat.
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Which the majoriy of show ponies are not just moocing around in a field and doing a small amount of work.. the majority are worked twice a day 6 days a week, well the ones I know of.
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
All those show ponies I named dont wobble around when they walk either....
DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
Doesn't necessarily stop them being fat.
Hutchlou
Well-Known Member
Usain Bolt does have clear muscles though, many of the cobs I saw yesterday had very round bottoms with little muscle definition. 
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
lovely horse and not fat from that photo at all! As you say, he looks a chunk because he is a deep baroque type
I used to show ponies up to a decent enough level, albeit as an amateur (used to do BSPS champs and made it to RIHS once and everything!) and they were all fat. They just were. No debating it or denying it, every single one of them was over weight. And obviously being immersed in that world I had access to a lot of other ponies. They were all bloody fat. And all did well in the ring, including HOYS ponies and Olympia ponys.
ETS: and I sure as sugar, honey, ice, tea only rode them three times a week as well
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AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Interesting debate going on here. I enjoy a bit of showing. The comments about dope is a valid one. I attended Royal Shrewsbury a while ago, 2009 I think. Catalogue full of entries for the hunter weights and classes were qualifiers. Fifteen entered in my class, nearly all of which were top class and well known horses. I was somewhat bemused to find only five in the ring and the penny only dropped when my horse, who had finished 2nd, was stopped as he left the ring and had a vet in attendance with him until we reached my box and he was tested. I had not noticed the dope wagon in the lorry park, but obviously everyone else had.
The comments about lame horses I am not so sure about, but I can only comment on hunters. The judges for hunters are eminent and very respected horsemen and hunters are ridden by the judges. I have seen judges send out unlevel and unruly horses, rightly so. I have yet to see a lame horse win or be placed at the level I show at.
Here is a picture of a hunter produced as a show horse. His routine was hacking most days, schooled twice a week (he was working medium level), he cantered twice a week and he competed affiliated dressage at the weekends if he was not showing.
He was 15 years of age when these pictures were taken. He is 17.2h. It will be interesting to hear comments. I won't be offended ! the horse is retired now.
The comments about lame horses I am not so sure about, but I can only comment on hunters. The judges for hunters are eminent and very respected horsemen and hunters are ridden by the judges. I have seen judges send out unlevel and unruly horses, rightly so. I have yet to see a lame horse win or be placed at the level I show at.
Here is a picture of a hunter produced as a show horse. His routine was hacking most days, schooled twice a week (he was working medium level), he cantered twice a week and he competed affiliated dressage at the weekends if he was not showing.
He was 15 years of age when these pictures were taken. He is 17.2h. It will be interesting to hear comments. I won't be offended ! the horse is retired now.
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
Interesting debate going on here. I enjoy a bit of showing. The comments about dope is a valid one. I attended Royal Shrewsbury a while ago, 2009 I think. Catalogue full of entries for the hunter weights and classes were qualifiers. Fifteen entered in my class, nearly all of which were top class and well known horses. I was somewhat bemused to find only five in the ring and the penny only dropped when my horse, who had finished 2nd, was stopped as he left the ring and had a vet in attendance with him until we reached my box and he was tested. I had not noticed the dope wagon in the lorry park, but obviously everyone else had.
The comments about lame horses I am not so sure about, but I can only comment on hunters. The judges for hunters are eminent and very respected horsemen and hunters are ridden by the judges. I have seen judges send out unlevel and unruly horses, rightly so. I have yet to see a lame horse win or be placed at the level I show at.
Here is a picture of a hunter produced as a show horse. His routine was hacking most days, schooled twice a week (he was working medium level), he cantered twice a week and he competed affiliated dressage at the weekends if he was not showing.
He was 15 years of age when these pictures were taken. He is 17.2h. It will be interesting to hear comments. I won't be offended ! the horse is retired now.
Honest opinion? I think he is fine, looks to have more muscle than fat. Just right I would say! His neck looks muscled and not 'cresty'
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Interesting debate going on here. I enjoy a bit of showing. The comments about dope is a valid one. I attended Royal Shrewsbury a while ago, 2009 I think. Catalogue full of entries for the hunter weights and classes were qualifiers. Fifteen entered in my class, nearly all of which were top class and well known horses. I was somewhat bemused to find only five in the ring and the penny only dropped when my horse, who had finished 2nd, was stopped as he left the ring and had a vet in attendance with him until we reached my box and he was tested. I had not noticed the dope wagon in the lorry park, but obviously everyone else had.
The comments about lame horses I am not so sure about, but I can only comment on hunters. The judges for hunters are eminent and very respected horsemen and hunters are ridden by the judges. I have seen judges send out unlevel and unruly horses, rightly so. I have yet to see a lame horse win or be placed at the level I show at.
Here is a picture of a hunter produced as a show horse. His routine was hacking most days, schooled twice a week (he was working medium level), he cantered twice a week and he competed affiliated dressage at the weekends if he was not showing.
He was 15 years of age when these pictures were taken. He is 17.2h. It will be interesting to hear comments. I won't be offended ! the horse is retired now.
Beautiful stamp of a horse and yet again a well muscled neck
I see the 'all show horses and ponies are fat' police have gone quiet 
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
According to my vets, show horses are indeed coming down with laminitis due to their weight but it is endemic to high class showing and they feel powerless to do anything about it with client confidentiality issues involved.
Has the show Hunter on the front cover of H&H this week even got a shoulder blade? If so, it's nowhere in sight.
pip6
Well-Known Member
Wish the show horses I saw at Trailblazers finals looked as well as him! I started a thread (I had no interest in the class, just watched it waiting for another one), had only 2 entries. One was grossly overweight (we called him Mr Ripple as he did when he walked & positively wobbled in trot), the other Mr Extra Ripple, because he was even worse. Given that the show is sponsored by Spillars, all entrants should have been condition tested & be deemed not overweight before being allowed in ring. What a surprise, extra ripple won. Neither should have won the class given the state they were in.
Capriole
Well-Known Member
Ah no, I showed against a lame horse one time (that I noticed especially) and it beat me which was pretty gutting back then, it was a nicer type than mine but even I could see it was lame and I don't set myself up as an expert.
I've also had it suggested I bute a horse I was scratching from a show due to a niggle.
I love to show, the horses I show aren't fat though (disclaimer as we have a couple of new ones that are like hippos). Or maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it as I'm used to fatties.
eta friends show horses are horrendously fat imo. Pretty sure they think mine are skinny
I've also had it suggested I bute a horse I was scratching from a show due to a niggle.
I love to show, the horses I show aren't fat though (disclaimer as we have a couple of new ones that are like hippos). Or maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it as I'm used to fatties.
eta friends show horses are horrendously fat imo. Pretty sure they think mine are skinny
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